Information Meetings on new license fees

[mike rossi]

These are information meetings, NOT public comment hearings. For informational purposes only, the Dec is providing information, not taking comments or opinions at these meetings. Please post if you know of any other meetings about this.

You may have heard about the recent proposal by Governor Cuomo to streamline NY's Hunting and Fishing License's. The proposal reduces the number of licenses from 17 to 7, reduces costs for most license categories, and ? eliminates the trapping license????

In an effort to fully inform the public about the proposal, DEC will be holding meetings around the state during the next two weeks. In order to provide as many opportunities as possible for people to be informed about the proposal, two additional meetings have been scheduled since the e-mail sent earlier. Region 6 staff will be holding a total of four meetings to explain the proposal and answer questions that people might have.

Region 6 meetings:

1.The Watertown meeting will be held on Thursday, February 28th, from 7-9 PM in Room 3, on the 11th floor of the Watertown State Office Building, at 317 Washington Street in Watertown, NY.

2.The Utica meeting will be held on Thursday, February 28th, from 7-9 PM, in Room A & B, on the 1st floor of the Utica State Office Building, at 207 Genesee Street, in Utica, NY.

3.A meeting is scheduled on Tuesday, March 5th, from 7-9 PM, in the Middle School Cafeteria, at the Gouverneur High School, 113 East Barney Street, Gouverneur, NY. The cafeteria where the meeting will take place is in the Middle School, but the High and Middle Schools are connected. The main entrance to the school is a canopy entrance fronting Barney St, which leads directly into the high school lobby.

4.Another Utica meeting is scheduled on Wednesday, March 6th, from 7-9 PM, in Room A & B, on the 1st floor of the Utica State Office Building, at 207 Genesee Street, in Utica, NY.

People with questions about the meetings and their location can call Stephen Litwhiler at 315-785-2252.

Region 3:

There will be an informational meeting tonight (2/27) in New Paltz from 7:00 to 9:00 pm at the Region 3 headquarters south putts corners rd contact #is 845-256-3018

Region 7 has two meetings scheduled:

1. Tonight at the State Fairgrounds in Syracuse. Call DEC Syracuse for time of meeting at the fairground.

2. Tuesday March 5, 6:30 PM at the DEC office in Cortland.

Edited February 28, 2013 by mike rossi

[josephmrtn]

You may have heard about the recent proposal by Governor Cuomo to streamline NY's Hunting and Fishing License's. The proposal reduces the number of licenses from 17 to 7, reduces costs for most license categories, and ? eliminates the trapping license????

In an effort to fully inform the public about the proposal, DEC will be holding meetings around the state during the next two weeks. In order to provide as many opportunities as possible for people to be informed about the proposal, two additional meetings have been scheduled since the e-mail sent earlier. Region 6 staff will be holding a total of four meetings to explain the proposal and answer questions that people might have.

I'd support that!!! even tho i hate cumoron

[mike rossi]

I'd support that!!! even tho i hate cumoron

Everybody likes to save money, but the devil is in the details...

[mike rossi]

Timeline Findings as of March 1, 2013 on Sporting License Changes

In late February of 2013 the joint environmental conservation budget hearing was held.

The DEC commissioner indicated that the conservation fund “was doing well”. Senator Mark Grisanti, who also is the chairman of the senate environmental conservation committee referred to a “surplus” in the CF.

Environmental Protection Fund has been increased $19 million for 2013. The EPF is not derived from sporting license revenue.

The NYSCC, FWMB, and the CFAB have testified during the joint environmental conservation budget hearing in February 2013, that the sporting community is receiving less services from the DEC, particularily because of fewer staff, and therefore they are recommending that the fees of sporting licenses be reduced.

The NYSCC, FWMB, and CFAB also testified that they object to the EP Fund being used to control hydrilla, an invasive aquatic plant, in Cayuga Lake. They also object to the EP Fund being used to make five year installment payments to purchase Adirondack land known as the former Finch property.

DEC commissioner Martens indicated when questioned by Senator Mark Grisanti, during the hearing, that he did not support a decrease in fees for sporting licenses.

A few days later, Governor Cuomo released a news press announcing a proposal to eliminate several classes of sporting licenses and reduce license fees.

One of the licenses to be phased out is the trapping license. Some trappers are opposed to this for unspecified reasons and some have contacted the legislature about this.

An anecdotal source of information claimed that Senator Grisanti had indicated the license fee reduction was a republican proposal and its purpose was to prevent “raiding” of the conservation fund.

[dbHunterNY]

i really wish we knew the specific changes. it may seem complicated now but really isn't and allows a hunter to pick and choose what tags they want. this makes it cheaper than buying a set of tags with multiple tags lumped together. i buy a super sportsman so that doesn't apply to me, but not the case with other hunters i know.

i'm not opposed to this but no one should forget where Cuomo's interests are. It's funny how DEC has proposed changes for a while now and now suddenly Cuomo's all for it. I don't think highly of him and believe he's mainly doing it for votes and polls. More and more localities are going on record opposing his previous bills he somehow got passed. I'll credit any good this proposal does to DEC and some others. He's simply the guy signing it to try and save his butt.

[G-Man]

Saw the specifics posted, prices go do slowly

[mike rossi]

Reality Check:

Much different from Cuomo's news release, but reducing the conservation fund by increasing its burn rate is on the record as the justification for this proposal by its supporters, namely representatives of the CFAB, NYSCC, FWMB.

As far as the DEC proposing this, the commissioner of the DEC was asked during the same hearing if he supports this and he very clearly said he did NOT and that is also on the record...

Although Senator Grisanti, a republican, told someone who called his office about it that "it is a republican proposal" and during the hearing, Grisanti seemed to support it, the DEC's website refers to it as the "governor's proposal". Interesting that both parties want credit for a real bad idea. Bipartisan Stupidity?

[mike rossi]

Note Bold underlined in written statement one year ago,(the safe act is not one year old!) says in black and white the cfab and Cuomo agree on this, and that "there is no need to carry a large balance in the conservation fund... Said the same thing this year.

January 19, 2012

Thomas Congdon

Assistant Secretary for Energy and Environment

Executive Chamber

Albany, NY 12224

RE: Impacts to the NYS Conservation Fund

Dear Mr. Congdon,

The Conservation Fund Advisory Board (CFAB) was pleased to see language placed in the Governor's proposed budget that appears to protect the Conservation Fund from being swept and not jeopardize the estimated $20 million in federal aid New York annually receives to assist with the fish and wildlife program in NYSDEC. As I stated in my conversations with yourself and Mr. Rosenthal, I urge you to get confirmation in writing from the United States Fish and Wildlife Service that the proposed budget language addresses the concerns raised and the federal aid is not in jeopardy of being lost so that we can pass this information on to the sporting community.

At the January 19th meeting of the CFAB, there was also considerable discussion of the Governor's budget proposal to shift 65 Environmental Conservation Officers from the General Fund to the Conservation Fund. The Board was also notified at their December meeting that 20 ECO's were moved on to the Conservation Fund.

As I have previously stated in my correspondence and conversations with the Governor's Office, the CFAB fully understands that a portion of the costs associated with the ECO's should be paid by the Conservation Fund. However, the board agreed that it is absolutely unacceptable that this administration continues to offload ECO's onto the Conservation Fund without being able to fill the numerous vacancies that exist within DEC's Division of Fish, Wildlife, and Marine Resources (DFWMR). The CFAB receives monthly updates on staffing levels within the DFWMR and the number of employees on the Conservation Fund.

Please review the information pulled from the Filled Position report [in the table below] when the license fee increase went into effect (8/2009) and the report from December 2011. It is clearly evident from the current staffing levels in the DFWMR that the level of service provided to sportsmen through their license fees has significantly decreased despite a significant license fee increase.

Filled Position Report August 2009 December 2011 Total staff in the

Division of Fish, Wildlife and

Marine Resources (DFWMR) 412 349 Total DFWMR staff

on Conservation Fund 189 228 Total Department (DEC) staff

on Conservation Fund 203 259

The members of the CFAB re-emphasize the point that hunting, fishing and trapping community in New York State is the only interest group that funds the management of the resources that are important to them. Hunting, fishing and trapping license sales (1.5 million per year) generate approximately $47 million dollars per year and leverage millions more in federal aid as a direct result of the license sale revenue. In addition, hunting, fishing and trapping generates an estimated $2 billion to the state economy on a yearly basis, supporting thousands of jobs across New York.

It is evident from the information CFAB has received that the money collected from the sporting community is not being used in the manner it was intended to when the license fee increase was initiated. The CFAB will continue discussions on recommending a significant license fee decrease to spur participation in hunting, fishing, and trapping and foster the economic benefits derived from increased recreation activity. During Governor Cuomo's press conference (Aug. 2011) on the repeal of the Recreational Marine Fishing License, he made the point that the license fees were unfair and caused a negative impact to the local economy. Reduced Conservation Fund allocations have resulted in reduced fish and wildlife program delivery and a significant balance in the Conservation Fund. There is no need to carry this large balance with the current staffing levels in the Division of Fish, Wildlife, and Marine Resources so reduced revenues and reduced fees seem to be completely in order and are consistent with Governor Cuomo's messages.

The CFAB looks forward to working with the administration to resolve this issue.

Sincerely,

Jason Kemper

Chairman, NYS Conservation Fund Advisory Board

Cc:

Senate Environmental Conservation Committee

Assembly Environmental Conservation Committee

New York State Conservation Council

Conservation Alliance of New York

New York State Outdoor Writers Association

Edited March 7, 2013 by mike rossi

[Lawdwaz]

Mike, thank you for the update.

[TPhunter]

Has anything been said about what they are going to do for the guys that got suckered into buying a lifetime license?...Cuomo is stressin me out!!!

[covert]

If I understand the proposal correctly, with a "hunting" license you will be able to: hunt deer, bear, small game, turkey, archery, muzzleloader and trap?

That's what it looks like when you read it in one place, but in another it looks like archery and muzzleloader will be separate? If that is true then do they plan to do anything for people who currently hold lifetime hunting and archery/muzzleloader licenses?

[mike rossi]

You were getting ripped off with life time licenses long before this proposal...

How much? Here ya go...

2008: $2,169,473

2009: $24,522,839

2010: $3,110,034

Edited March 7, 2013 by mike rossi

[mike rossi]

By the way, did we establish with post number 8 that this proposal was invented and driven by both the Conservation Fund Advisory Board AND Governor Cuomo?

Did we also establish that this began at least one year before the Sandy shootings and the Safe Act?

Or is there still a pink-sky disagreement and Rossi is full of it?

[TPhunter]

You were getting ripped off with life time licenses long before this proposal...

How much? Here ya go...

2008: $2,169,473

2009: $24,522,839

2010: $3,110,034

This happens when you have a Government entity that lies to it's public...When you are told that license prices are to go up exponentially one year and again in the next few years to follow, then offered a special deal...You fall for the sales pitch and take the deal...Unfortunately what we were told was a bold face lie.

Getting skrood by NY State is all too common anymore.

[mike rossi]

This happens when you have a Government entity that lies to it's public...When you are told that license prices are to go up exponentially one year and again in the next few years to follow, then offered a special deal...You fall for the sales pitch and take the deal...Unfortunately what we were told was a bold face lie.

Getting skrood by NY State is all too common anymore.

You must be talking about the "bold face" in 2009, pun intended.... And I assume the public entity you are refering to is the dec?

But you are getting distracted!

Fast forward to February 2013. In February of 2013; the DEC commissioner, Joe Martens, on recorded testimony said that " at the current burn rate it will not be necessary to increase sporting license fees for five years". He also was asked if he supported a license fee reduction, His answer , also recorded and on the record, was NO.

During the same hearing and also recorded and on the record, several people who represent the sporting community testified in favor of fee reductions under the justification that the DEC is doing less for sportsmen. Other justification given was basically their opinions about what is wildlife management and what is not. I personally disagree with the opinions given and apparently so does the DEC, evinced by the fact that the controversial management strategies were the DECs own plan...

The next thing we know is that the governor made a license fee proposal and at least one of the management strategies was put on hold. What makes it even more erroneous was that particular management strategy was not slated for conservation funds, but other funds derived from the public at large, not exclusivly the sporting community.

Somebody wanted the lifetime license revenue to spike as it did in 2009 - because as discussed, that revenue was diverted from conservation and into the state short term investment pool. But you seem to be blaming that on an unspecified goverment entity, presumably the dec. I am sceptical that this was engineered by the dec, though someone may have had a gun put to thier head. However, this could have been stopped at the time when the separate account within the conservation fund was proposed. We do have a "conservation advisory board" you know... Why didnt they "advise" against this?

Now, here we are, only two weeks later, in March 2013; and thousands of members of the sporting community have all these theories about the blame being on the safe act, the democrats, the antis, "tree huggers', and the DEC... And those theories are going to be told over & over so many times they will become accepted as fact. Next the same theories will be published in sporting news letters and magazines. Next the politicians and board members will go with the easy flow created for them. What else is new?

I am sure, even after all that, someone will post right after this about it being the safe act or some thing. Or instead of focusing on march 2013, will go back to the past, even a few years ago and connect this to one scapegoat or another or another event in history. Those in power have quite a good racket going because they know how sportsmen think and how to manipulate them, dont they? They even appoint those who sit on the advisory boards...

Edited March 7, 2013 by mike rossi

[WNYBuckHunter]

"There is no need to carry this large balance with the current staffing levels in the Division of Fish, Wildlife, and Marine Resources so reduced revenues and reduced fees seem to be completely in order and are consistent with Governor Cuomo's messages."

So why not hire more Encon officers instead? We need them more than a few dollars taken off of our license fees.

[mike rossi]

"There is no need to carry this large balance with the current staffing levels in the Division of Fish, Wildlife, and Marine Resources so reduced revenues and reduced fees seem to be completely in order and are consistent with Governor Cuomo's messages."

So why not hire more Encon officers instead? We need them more than a few dollars taken off of our license fees.

Thank you!!!! That is exactly what I am getting at, except I would prioriize other things before en con officers... This was apparently driven by spite and all it is doing is making conservation MORE political... Making it MORE of a political arena than it has already become...

Edited March 8, 2013 by mike rossi

[WNYBuckHunter]

I was just using the officers as an example because thats what most people see the majority of the time.

[d-bone20917]

I agree. If the issue is having too much money in the conservation fund then we should start spending more on conservation programs, not reduce license fees.

[mike rossi]

Look at how good their math is too...

According to the dec commissioner, license fees will not have to be increased for five years at the current "burn-rate". So with lower fees in effect do we:

Lower the burn-rate thereby exasperating the exact thing which the supporters of the proposal complained about, namely less services....

Or...

increase license fees within five years instead of at five years

Or...

Keep the burn rate the same and operate under the reduced license fees and run out of money?

Edited March 8, 2013 by mike rossi