Rem 700 investigation

[Fantail]

source http://www.cnbc.com/id/39554936?__source=vty|remingtondoc|&par=vty

--snip

Remington 700 Rifle

More than five million Model 700-series rifles have been sold, bringing in hundreds of millions of dollars for Remington. Famous for its accuracy and easy trigger pull, the gun is popular among hunters. Remington calls the 700-series the “firearm of choice” for America’s military and law enforcement communities.

The Controversy

A 10-month CNBC investigation revealed thousands of complaints and more than 75 lawsuits stemming from alleged inadvertent discharges from the Remington 700. At least two dozen deaths and more than one hundred injuries have been linked to a possible design flaw in Remington's 700-series bolt-action rifle. Remington stands by its rifle, and maintains it is safe and reliable and that the accidents are a result of improper maintenance and unsafe handling.

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Note: page - souces looks like it will be edited at times.

I have to wonder, if any of these accidents were from modified actions, triggers, etc.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I own 2 and my Father just called me on this to let me know. I was just coming here to see if anyone knew anything.

Fan----I think you may have something there with the modifications. It is one of the most popular actions to modify. The 700 is advertised as NOT having an adjustable trigger...but it is. the factory set screws are set and sealed, but came be adjusted....at least they can on the one I have. pull tension and creep screws are on the trigger and if you get aggressive on the creep adjustment it will go off.

It is on CNBC tonight. I will be watching

[steve863]

60 minutes did a story on this same subject a few years ago.  This story is nothing new.  Has been around for years now.  With all the lawsuits NO one has been able to prove that the model 700 is a defective product because it isn't.  How about all the millions that have been made and sold without any issues??  People will sue these days for everything and a good many of these accidents were caused by owner negligence and nothing more, yet a big corporation will settle with these people just so they don't get bad press.  In most cases it's a win-win for to person suing, so that's why they keep doing it even if there is very little merit in their cases.  I own 2 model 700's and would not hesitate getting more of them no matter what these BS stories try to say about them!

[Mr VJP]

I had it happen to me on the range once with a model 700 in .30-06.  I released the safety and the rifle fired.  Both my thumb and index finger were on the safety knob and nowhere near the trigger.  I sold the rifle after that.

I believe it can, and does happen on the 700, and even the designer of the trigger has warned of it's potential danger, but the trigger issue has not been addressed.  It will not happen on a regular basis and you can not make it happen when you want it to, but it can, and does happen on rare occasion.

I'm not sure if newer 700 triggers have this issue as my rifle was made in the 70's.

[WNYBuckHunter]

If you do some reading, the Remmy 700 triggers have been changed to the X-Mark Pro which does not include the piece that supposedly causes the issue. My 700 has the newer trigger in it.

[Bballhunter11]

Remington has made a website in response to CNBC's "Expert" who by the looks has never handled a gun in his life or does not correctly know how to handle one. Probably a same assumption considering where the accusations are coming from. I personally use 2 model 700s an older one in 30-06 that i bought used and another in 7-08 that i bought new. Have had nothing but good things to say about both of them and i agree that some of the accidents are probably due to modifications. I read one story about a small child being fatally shot as his mother was unloading her gun and the first thought that came to my mind was why was it pointed at her own child any way? Yes maybe the gun did just discharge but if she knew what she was doing shouldn't it just of scared everyone and continued from there. Just how i was taught maybe but people are always ready to point to something else when a problem arises. Guns should not be in the hands of someone who is not completely confident with them when there are more people than necessary around. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

I read one story about a small child being fatally shot as his mother was unloading her gun and the first thought that came to my mind was why was it pointed at her own child any way? Yes maybe the gun did just discharge but if she knew what she was doing shouldn't it just of scared everyone and continued from there. Just how i was taught maybe but people are always ready to point to something else when a problem arises. Guns should not be in the hands of someone who is not completely confident with them when there are more people than necessary around.

Oh come on, taking personal responsibility for one's actions isnt the American spirit anymore. Geeze, what are you thinking?!?! 

[erussell]

I especially liked the storie msnbc did on there site today to wnybuckhunter. The storie of the ladie who killed her son while unloading a 700 was especially touching. All I could think was why was it pointed at someone while you were unloading it you dumb ass. Remington didn't kill your kid you did, by not obeying the 1st law of gun safety, never point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot. Which gets me thinking she did it on purpous so she could sue Remington and get some money. Hey just saying, crazier things have happened.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

On cnbc story the mother was unloading while pointing it into the horse trailer....the kid walked on the other side of it. I guess there is no 100 percent safe direction....but I was taught....muzzle towards the ground away from anything. If she did that her son would still be alive. Muzzle into a horse trailer isn't a safe direction because u can't see through it.

I used an older model 700...the type you had to disengage the safety to lift the bolt....didn't care for that feature. Both of my 700's can be unloaded with the saftey on. I still believe after watching the show.....user error or modifications

[Dinsdale]

I had a early 90's 700 that had an AD.

Had the gun on range and sent the round down field. Scared the crap out of me. Gun had no mods and was about a year old at the time;maybe 500 factory rounds through it.

I found the bolt to have metal chips in it after a disassembly; and I always blamed the factory grime in there as the culprit. After cleaning I could never get the gun to do it again after repeated attempts.

I later had Hart swap out the trigger and do some otherwork before eventually selling it. Hart could find nothing askew in the factory trigger or other parts.

[WNYBuckHunter]

The key though Dinsdale, is that you had the gun pointed in a safe direction, so nobody got hurt or killed. If you were pointing it at someone and they got killed, I dont care if the gun misfired or you pulled the trigger, you were not following basic gun safety, so the responsibility would lie completely upon your shoulders. Glad to hear you were being safe and responsible. 

[bpb]

According to a news report I just saw CNBC never contacted Remington and the whole show was from an anti view point.

The cases they spoke about no one ever contacted Remington. Other or former news bits about Remington problems were a result of trigger modifications and owner neglect.

This is an old story , very old brought back to life by lame stream media just as hunting season opens across the states. This will generate thousands of calls to Remington , their by wasting time and effort on real customers service issues.

CNBC does this every year at just about the same time.

[bpb]

None of the Remington 700 actions I shot in the Navy malfunctioned & they saw lots more action than hunting once a year. My 700 action now works fine and it has a 50 year old 721 barrel attached to it

[Bballhunter11]

Hahaha very true WNY im sure it was not on purpose but why is everyone so quick to point the finger instead of look in the mirror. You are very right and thats the scary part.

[Mr VJP]

I think a lot of the problem has to do with dirt in the trigger.  When the 700 trigger gets a lot of oil in it, dirt can build up inside it and that can cause these accidental discharge issues.

[the blur]

The military has documented this problem.

It's all over the internet,  so at least 50% of the reports must be true.

and if's it 1% true,  that's 1% too many.

I'd be hard pressed to buy another Remmington fire arm.

And what precentage of gun owners mod their trigger ?

I'd say a very low #.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Why would you be hard pressed to buy another Remington? The problem has been PROVEN to only happen when the mechanism is dirty or modified, which is not the fault of Remington, but the owner and user of the firearm. How about you post some proof of the supposed Military investigation? Im sure we would all be interested in reading their findings.

[the blur]

So you think it's OK that dirty triggers cause accidental discharge?

I didn't wash my car for 3 months, or change the oil for 1 year,  should it self aim to the nearest telephone pole, and claim owner neglect.

Why would you protect Remmington ?  Cause it's your favorite brand ?

They are not even taking responsibility.

Why would you be hard pressed to buy another Remington? The problem has been PROVEN to only happen when the mechanism is dirty or modified, which is not the fault of Remington, but the owner and user of the firearm. How about you post some proof of the supposed Military investigation? Im sure we would all be interested in reading their findings.

[erussell]

i have a Winchester with a bad trigger that if squeezed with the safety on it still goes off. Im sure you can go through every major brand and find safety problems with them. I have an idea maybe don't be a douche bag and point it at someone and pull the trigger when the gun is loaded ??? I would have to consider the source on this one, anytime the liberal news groups do a story on guns i pretty much assume there up to something. And since they can't sue gun company's anymore when some criminal shoots someone with there guns, they are now depending on the weak minded among the gun community to do it for them under the guise of there products are not safe because I accidentally shot someones face with a gun that had a bum safety or trigger even though the first law of gun safety is don't point a gun at someones head unless you want to kill them. Here's a news flash people guns are dangerous, if you need to ware a helmet to keep from hurting yourself you should leave the guns to responsible Adults and stop blaming gun companies for your irresponsibility. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

AMEN! I was also a little suspicious about the timing since remington was on the verge of a large military contract....hmmmmmmm

[Doewhacker]

"It's all over the internet,  so at least 50% of the reports must be true."

hahahahahahaha Thats a good one! hahahahaha

[WNYBuckHunter]

So you think it's OK that dirty triggers cause accidental discharge?

I didn't wash my car for 3 months, or change the oil for 1 year,  should it self aim to the nearest telephone pole, and claim owner neglect.

Why would you protect Remmington ?  Cause it's your favorite brand ?

They are not even taking responsibility.

Why would you be hard pressed to buy another Remington? The problem has been PROVEN to only happen when the mechanism is dirty or modified, which is not the fault of Remington, but the owner and user of the firearm. How about you post some proof of the supposed Military investigation? Im sure we would all be interested in reading their findings.

To compare a dirty car to an uncleaned or maintained trigger assembly on a gun is apples and oranges. You are comparing cosmetic to functional parts. If you want to make a fair comparison to a car, think of it this way. If you dont change your oil in your car's engine (maintainence), and it seizes up because your oil filter plugs up, is that the manufacturer's fault? Of course not.

Im not protecting Remington specifically, Im calling shenanigans on a report that is not true, or has been shown under false pretenses. If you care to drink the Kool-Aide, then by all means, but if you decided to go on a public forum and smear something without a shred of proof, dont be so surprised when people call you out on your accusations.

Now how about those military findings? Can you back your statement up or not?

[WNYBuckHunter]

I have an idea maybe don't be a douche bag and point it at someone and pull the trigger when the gun is loaded ??? .....Here's a news flash people guns are dangerous, if you need to ware a helmet to keep from hurting yourself you should leave the guns to responsible Adults and stop blaming gun companies for your irresponsibility.

Now theres a novel idea! Use common sense and take responsibility for your actions! 

Nah, it would never work.  ;D

[Culvercreek hunt club]

WNY....I was actually thinking more about an analogy with the cars brakes.....run them to the studs.....do the work yourself without the proper knowledge...they give way in a hard braking situation....must be the car manufacturers fault....bottom line...rule #1. ALWAYS keep your barrel piinted in a safe direction.

[Bleitten04]

I saw a tv show about this.  If you worked at Remington is was a don't ask don't tell situation just so you could keep your job.  Not sure on all the details though.  If all of this is true Remington needs to do something about it.  But people shooting other because of accidental discharge is pretty ridciulous.  DON'T POINT YOUR GUN AT ANOTHER PERSON UNLESS YOUR IN WAR!!!!!