Would you vote to make it legal?

[Four Seasons]

3 hours ago, Belo said:

You know I've been on here a long time and I've never been your foe. You've made many. Many don't like or agree with what you do, yet I've never said a single thing about it. But now you're making me your enemy without me even attacking your business?

If you answer my question above, 3rd time i've asked. I'll give you all that you want. 

You have brought up my business numerous times in this thread alone. The only enemies I have about my business are the jealous ones that wish they could do and make what I do. Period. Any research would show you what I have been telling people for years. High fence will be a big part of the future of hunting. It continues to grow yearly with demand such that we are in the process of a 100 grand upgrade that will put us up to 300 head with over 100 breeding aged does with over 100 bucks a year being sold. They can like it or not but that’s 100% fact. Again.    And again. You show me all the death and carnage from CWD that I can show you on the real deer killer in EHD on a yearly basis across the state and you will have my attention. 

[Four Seasons]

2 hours ago, ridgerunner88 said:

[mention=2761]Belo[/mention], I’d be interested in reading them.

@FourSeasons, when I talk about regulating mineral licks it is with regards to the general deer population. Your business is exempt and not applicable so there is no need for you to take offense. Grow those boys as big as you can and make that money!


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None takin.  The fact still remains that my animals on the inside are the same exact animal in the outside minus the bloodlines and the care. Mineral licks will help with a Whitetails body condition and it takes that condition to help get full blood flow to their antlers. Body condition has to be there before any whitetail will make any kind of rack. Regardless of bloodlines or genetics. Just more of Ny’s lack of knowledge when caring for our wildlife. Kinda like not having an open season on all the vermin out there killing the fawns and raiding Turkey nests to the point of numbers dropping in many places. 

[LET EM GROW]

17 hours ago, GreeneHunter said:

Weather or not Baiting becomes legal Tractor Supply will still run out of Deer Corn !  It's just interesting that it's for sale but you cannot use it .... LOL

 

I watched a woman pile bags of deer corn in her cart the other day at Walmart.. I chuckled.. Shes gonna give the boys a run for their money lol

[Five Seasons]

13 hours ago, Four Seasons said:

I want you to show me the dead deer that died from CWD. I can show you the dead deer from EHD. I don’t want more write ups of what if’s or could be’s by the same people that keep sucking the government for research money to keep researching the same things. I want you to tell me how the state of Wisconsin killed off all their zombie deer because a big bad disease yet the state herds rebounded to record numbers of animals in a couple short years. I want you to tell me how a positive Elk herd at Wind Cave became so over populated with animals that they cut the fence and used helicopters to scare the elk out into the wild herd……. Yes a disease that you say is so bad yet they willingly ran those Elk out into the wild herd to be killed by hunters and put in their freezers…You tell me that that’s a killer disease and that they think it could be givin to man?  I will read anything you put up that shows the 100% truths and real life facts of CWD killing numbers of animals. 

 

13 hours ago, Four Seasons said:

You have brought up my business numerous times in this thread alone. The only enemies I have about my business are the jealous ones that wish they could do and make what I do. Period. Any research would show you what I have been telling people for years. High fence will be a big part of the future of hunting. It continues to grow yearly with demand such that we are in the process of a 100 grand upgrade that will put us up to 300 head with over 100 breeding aged does with over 100 bucks a year being sold. They can like it or not but that’s 100% fact. Again.    And again. You show me all the death and carnage from CWD that I can show you on the real deer killer in EHD on a yearly basis across the state and you will have my attention. 

I brought up your business, because your business is being attacked and linked to CWD spread and also regulated as a result of it, which hurts your profits. It's like big tobacco lobbying the government against smoking restrictions or big oil lobbying against restricting fossil fuels. It wasn't to paint you in a bad light. I have never done that and haven't done that in this thread and you know it. I also don't know why you think everyone is so jealous of you my dude. A lot of us do just fine financially and do so without getting jizz on us. You do you and everyone else can enjoy their life too without being jealous. 

Now back to our discussion. Am I understanding it correctly that you will not accept any scientific articles from universities, states, feds etc? Any and all research that is ever done on ANYTHING relies on grant money. So your insistence that I find some organization that privately funded their research would either be A. Impossible or B. Very susceptible to industry bias, just like when big oil published a study showing that leaded gasoline was just fine.

So last call, can I source these or not?

[Four Seasons]

17 minutes ago, Belo said:

 

I brought up your business, because your business is being attacked and linked to CWD spread and also regulated as a result of it, which hurts your profits. It's like big tobacco lobbying the government against smoking restrictions or big oil lobbying against restricting fossil fuels. It wasn't to paint you in a bad light. I have never done that and haven't done that in this thread and you know it. I also don't know why you think everyone is so jealous of you my dude. A lot of us do just fine financially and do so without getting jizz on us. You do you and everyone else can enjoy their life too without being jealous. 

Now back to our discussion. Am I understanding it correctly that you will not accept any scientific articles from universities, states, feds etc? Any and all research that is ever done on ANYTHING relies on grant money. So your insistence that I find some organization that privately funded their research would either be A. Impossible or B. Very susceptible to industry bias, just like when big oil published a study showing that leaded gasoline was just fine.

So last call, can I source these or not?

Well first of all nobody should give two shits what my business is when it’s 100% legit with demand high and getting higher every year. So Jealous would be the only legit reason to have an issue. Second the Cwd hoax did very little to hurt the industry as a whole and in fact made my business double and now triple in size seeing though Ny closed the border for deer coming in….So Ny people have to buy from inside the state but we can sell to all but a couple states in the country. Hence a win-win for us             For your CWD hoax if your so sure of all these deaths and destruction…. Show It!!  Why would you have to believe research that has spent billions and have said the same thing for 60 years. I can show your real life 100% fact tested EHD killed Whitetails. Yearly. Now you are a smart man you say. You are versed to the ways of the world. You open your eyes every day for your last 40 years or however old you are. You have lived in numerous states, You should have all the real life facts showing the destruction caused by CWD if it’s the bad boy your brain washed to think/believe it is. If you can’t show the death and destruction then all you are doing is believing the words of the white coats that make their living sucking the free money year after year and the funny part is you believe them and even they can’t show you any major death and destruction to any herds or man in the last 60 years. Show me all this destruction you believe in. 

[Five Seasons]

36 minutes ago, Four Seasons said:

Well first of all nobody should give two shits what my business is when it’s 100% legit with demand high and getting higher every year. So Jealous would be the only legit reason to have an issue. Second the Cwd hoax did very little to hurt the industry as a whole and in fact made my business double and now triple in size seeing though Ny closed the border for deer coming in….So Ny people have to buy from inside the state but we can sell to all but a couple states in the country. Hence a win-win for us             For your CWD hoax if your so sure of all these deaths and destruction…. Show It!!  Why would you have to believe research that has spent billions and have said the same thing for 60 years. I can show your real life 100% fact tested EHD killed Whitetails. Yearly. Now you are a smart man you say. You are versed to the ways of the world. You open your eyes every day for your last 40 years or however old you are. You have lived in numerous states, You should have all the real life facts showing the destruction caused by CWD if it’s the bad boy your brain washed to think/believe it is. If you can’t show the death and destruction then all you are doing is believing the words of the white coats that make their living sucking the free money year after year and the funny part is you believe them and even they can’t show you any major death and destruction to any herds or man in the last 60 years. Show me all this destruction you believe in. 

Well I tried. You can't answer my question, so I won't engage any longer. By the way, nobody who understands that CWD is a threat is discounting EHD. You keep bringing up this strawman argument and I don't know why. It's like saying the flu is a problem too in addition to covid. Both can be true.

Good luck this season my friend. 

[Four Seasons]

30 minutes ago, Belo said:

Well I tried. You can't answer my question, so I won't engage any longer. By the way, nobody who understands that CWD is a threat is discounting EHD. You keep bringing up this strawman argument and I don't know why. It's like saying the flu is a problem too in addition to covid. Both can be true.

Good luck this season my friend. 

You tried to spread more bullshit is all you did.  You are no better then they are. Some say the earth is flat. Does that shit hold water also?  You call a disease that’s been around for 60 freaking years and you can’t throw up one documented fact of that disease doing any harm to any extent like I can with a real deer killing disease in EHD that you don’t see the white coats begging for money to research?   Why do you think that is?  You know exactly why that is. Cwd is still the political fares it’s always been and whenever guys like you get called out on it all you can give is words from some studies that have been going on for years and still can’t show any merit behind it. They take a syringe and shoot the cwd prion in a mouse’s brain and then say it’s possible for a mouse to contract Cwd. Well no freakin shit. Now show me in real life of a mouse naturally contracting CWD in real world setting and they can’t. Just as you can’t show the disease killing off any herds. But I can in fact show you real life facts of herds growing even though the herds are in fact CWD positive.  Who’s facts hold more water. My real life facts or your/their what if’s. We all know that answer 

[Eric J]

On 9/9/2022 at 11:16 AM, Belo said:

If the DEC put it to a vote, would you vote to allow off-season or out of season mineral supplements? Not legalizing feeders, but things like salt/mineral licks to encourage antler growth. They would still be illegal during the season (for those of us who follow the law of course)

Sure... 

[crappyice]

The bigger the rack on the bag the more it will sell. And some still think that the bone does not push the hunting industry.  Amazing. 

That can of worms again!!
#MakeMeat!


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[crappyice]

When will the govt start spending millions on fighting EHD?


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[Four Seasons]

5 minutes ago, crappyice said:

That can of worms again!!
#MakeMeat!


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Lol. Just a fact my friend. When they start putting tenderloins on the products we can say it’s all about the meat. 

[BizCT]

11 minutes ago, crappyice said:

When will the govt start spending millions on fighting EHD?


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When it finally hits CNY & WNY, and they realize what we are dealing with losing thousands of deer per year

[Four Seasons]

4 minutes ago, BizCT said:

When it finally hits CNY & WNY, and they realize what we are dealing with losing thousands of deer per year

I don’t think they really ever will. There is a vaccine being used behind fence that seems to be helping save some. You see that would be to easy to figure out and they would not be able to suck billions from the government on research. If you look a cwd prions they are the same a Scrapies in sheep and the sheep industry found out that it’s genetic and blood work was done and they bred Scrapies out of the herds.  That’s exactly what’s going on behind fence and I few short years you will se no cwd coming from any high fence operations and the wild herd will no longer be able to pass it into the fenced herd. So high fence will have not only a bigger and better product to offer but also a healthier animal. 

[Five Seasons]

[crappyice]

Lol. Just a fact my friend. When they start putting tenderloins on the products we can say it’s all about the meat. 

If all I got from a deer kill was horns, I would hunt squirrel and birds more than I do now.


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[Robhuntandfish]

If all I got from a deer kill was horns, I would hunt squirrel and birds more than I do now.


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The reason I have zero interest in ever hunting Africa. Can't bring the meat back to share with family and try. Congrats you shot a huge wildebeest....hope you enjoy your chicken on the plane ride home. No way.

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[Four Seasons]

13 minutes ago, crappyice said:

If all I got from a deer kill was horns, I would hunt squirrel and birds more than I do now.


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Oh we all still get the meat but 99.9% of hunters drive is the bone on top of that meat. Hell if that was the case why wouldn’t they put pics of does and spikes on the hunting products? Why would there be record books? Why would there be a billion dollar industry on Tv. Do you see hunters showing pics of nice does and 4 pointers from Trail cams. The list is long. Any Hunter can get meat even if they are terrible hunters for the most part. Hell look at Wolc. The guy makes a living killing babies for meat and when after years of hunting he gets somewhat of a nice buck we have to see pictures of it for 9 months on numerous threads. The Bone. 

[wolc123]

1 hour ago, Four Seasons said:

Oh we all still get the meat but 99.9% of hunters drive is the bone on top of that meat. Hell if that was the case why wouldn’t they put pics of does and spikes on the hunting products? Why would there be record books? Why would there be a billion dollar industry on Tv. Do you see hunters showing pics of nice does and 4 pointers from Trail cams. The list is long. Any Hunter can get meat even if they are terrible hunters for the most part. Hell look at Wolc. The guy makes a living killing babies for meat and when after years of hunting he gets somewhat of a nice buck we have to see pictures of it for 9 months on numerous threads. The Bone. 

I still have quite a bit of vacuum-sealed meat left from my last “toddler” buck (January 1, 2022 kill), including the neck roast.  I could bring that up to your ranch during early NZ ML week if you want to host a peace party with Belo.  I still have one Ruby red Kolsh left, which really makes a good gravy with it, in the crock-pot. 
 

Sorry that I didn’t keep the nuts from that one, because it was dark when I gutted him.  Their removal is a somewhat delicate operation requiring very good lighting.  If you ever decide to try a pair (most guys lack the nuts to do so), remember the key ingredient (per Belo’s hero Steve Rinella), lots of pepper.  Also, remember to slit thru the outer membranes first, or they will explode in the frying pan, making a mess of the kitchen (lesson that I learned the hard way on my first pair of Adirondack mountain oysters in 2014).

Happy hunting to you this year.   I will pray that your high-fence herd, and the wild ones outside the fence up there and down at Letchworth, escape the ravages of EHD and CWD.  It sounds like there is no need to worry about the latter.  I trust your words on that one.  

p.s, thanks for the compliment on my gun-season buck last year.  He would have been nicer, had I taken him pre-rut when he still had all 11 points, and more importantly, a few more packs of hamburg on him.  I am down to just (7) packs.

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by wolc123

[ridgerunner88]

NY = My freezer filling state
PA = My trophy hunting state (Unless @Four Seasons needs a sharpshooter to take care of all that CWD)
Quebec = My moose province


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[crappyice]

Oh we all still get the meat but 99.9% of hunters drive is the bone on top of that meat. Hell if that was the case why wouldn’t they put pics of does and spikes on the hunting products?

Cause Bone hunters need to cheat. Too easy!

Using any "statistical data" (99.9%) in this conversation discredits you even further in the previous conversation. But I know, I say that purely out of jealousy


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[Four Seasons]

27 minutes ago, crappyice said:

 

Cause Bone hunters need to cheat. Too easy!

Using any "statistical data" (99.9%) in this conversation discredits you even further in the previous conversation. But I know, I say that purely out of jealousy


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You can say anything you like. But until you can prove me wrong it does not hold much water. When you start seeing meat from the whitetail deer push the industry you let me know. Until then just like every morning  hunters wake up with the hope of killing the biggest antlered buck in his woods the industry will continue to use big antlered Whitetails to push the industry. Prove me wrong. 

[crappyice]

You can say anything you like. But until you can prove me wrong it does not hold much water. When you start seeing meat from the whitetail deer push the industry you let me know. Until then just like every morning  hunters wake up with the hope of killing the biggest antlered buck in his woods the industry will continue to use big antlered Whitetails to push the industry. Prove me wrong. 

You realize that those bags get bought mostly by chumps who fall victim to cheap gimmicks don't you? There the same guys that buys a Big Mac thinking they get what's on the shiny board.
Stop changing your "facts"
You have been offered scientific proof of CWD but it's tainted so you want experiential evidence.
Now I can offer you experiential evidence iof people who hunt for meat first but you want statistical evidence (your evidence of 99.9% may be hard to prove) or just discredit them (myself included) as poor hunters who can only shoot babies.
You do you! Just don't tell me how or why I do me.


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[Four Seasons]

1 hour ago, crappyice said:

You realize that those bags get bought mostly by chumps who fall victim to cheap gimmicks don't you? There the same guys that buys a Big Mac thinking they get what's on the shiny board.
Stop changing your "facts"
You have been offered scientific proof of CWD but it's tainted so you want experiential evidence.
Now I can offer you experiential evidence iof people who hunt for meat first but you want statistical evidence (your evidence of 99.9% may be hard to prove) or just discredit them (myself included) as poor hunters who can only shoot babies.
You do you! Just don't tell me how or why I do me.


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Those Bags?  You mean just about every product  that has anything to do with hunting the Whitetails deer? I could give two shits what you do or why you hunt. But again just as you or anyone else can’t show the real life fact that CWD is a big bad killer… Because it’s not.   You can’t show real life facts that meat pushed the hunting industry but I can in fact show you just how almost everything in the hunting industry is pushed by big antlers. Again fact that you can’t prove wrong. And yes. Even the worst of hunters can kill the dumbest animal of any species in the woods. If that’s what trips your trigger then have at it. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Four Seasons

[Hock3y24]

Yup, 100%, we have to pick our stuff up in pa 30 days before it will be hunted. But some parts of the state you can during hunting season. 

[Robhuntandfish]

8 hours ago, crappyice said:

 

Cause Bone hunters need to cheat. Too easy!

Using any "statistical data" (99.9%) in this conversation discredits you even further in the previous conversation. But I know, I say that purely out of jealousy


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8 hours ago, Four Seasons said:

You can say anything you like. But until you can prove me wrong it does not hold much water. When you start seeing meat from the whitetail deer push the industry you let me know. Until then just like every morning  hunters wake up with the hope of killing the biggest antlered buck in his woods the industry will continue to use big antlered Whitetails to push the industry. Prove me wrong. 

As ive stated before you both are actually wrong in a way.  Most people hunt neither for the horns or the meat.  We hunt cause we enjoy the outdoors, because its what our fathers did and taught us to do, cause we feel relaxation and peace out in the woods, its what we do because we are drawn to it.  If it was first for meat or horns -  i can get both of those easier than i can hunt for them.  I choose to hunt because its what i enjoy.  

That being said if i could only bring out horns from the woods i would not be out there. Bringing the meat home is far more enjoyable than the horns.  The obvious is of course we hunt for larger bucks as thats the more difficult and challenging goal, but it is not the reason i hunt. If it was i would be wasting my time as I dont have a lot of those anywhere near where i hunt. I even have better buck spots i could hunt but dont cause i like my little piece of land and the challenge and meat it provides. FSW you think everyone is in it for the horns as thats what you se everday and provide, but that is a very small niche group that comes for that, same crowd of high fence type hunters who like to brag more than they like to hunt. Most hunters cannot be classified as that.  Most are just people that enjoy the act of hunting and are happy to be able to.