QDM Meeting with Neighbors

[dbHunterNY]

I was told yesterday by my dad that he was asked to attend a QDMA meeting with some neighbors.  It's taking place next week.  hopefully this is a step in the right direction for many around us.  I'm assuming they're wanting to get a co-op going.  All of us together make for enough contiguous acres.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Is it people interested in setting up a hunting co-op or actually a meet of QDMA?  where is the meeting?

[dbHunterNY]

I was told someone will be there to talk and answer questions.  not sure if it's someone from Washington county QDMA co-op or an actual QDMA speaker.  it's specifically held to get involvement down around here with multiple owners of contiguous acres that would add up to more than 1000. so I think it's really both.

[dbHunterNY]

it's in Hoosick Falls (west Hoosick) in rensselaer county NY.

[dbHunterNY]

... I guess it wouldn't be an actual QDMA branch meeting, but I don't know for sure.

[dbHunterNY]

in the past I've been looked at as a knowledgeable hunter and that's all.  when I've tried to educate some what I've learned from experienced deer management people it's like they don't believe me because it's not what they've always been told or thought.  I'll explain tooth replacement and charateristics to tell them it's most likely a 1.5 yr old buck and for future reference it probably shouldn't have gotten shot.  then I get told I'm way off because it's got 6 points and therefore a 3 year old buck. it gets me angry as heck inside because I feel like it's hopeless.  I'm an engineer.  science and data is my life. I don't just pull this stuff out of my rear.  hopefully now they'll listen and i'll learn more too with this meeting.

Edited March 10, 2014 by dbHunterNY

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Check on the details. I would be curious who is speaking. There are active branches in that area but I was just trying to clear it up because people quite often use QDM  interchangeably with a Co-op effort. That Co-op my be practicing Quality Deer Management but might not be. They may also just be looking at a one aspect and NOT a full QDM plan. Also people use QDMA when talking about a quality deer management plan when it is actually a formal organization. That is one of the issues with QDMA's branding.

[phade]

in the past I've been looked at as a knowledgeable hunter and that's all.  when I've tried to educate some what I've learned from experienced deer management people it's like they don't believe me because it's not what they've always been told or thought.  I'll explain tooth replacement and charateristics to tell them it's most likely a 1.5 yr old buck and for future reference it probably shouldn't have gotten shot.  then I get told I'm way off because it's got 6 points and therefore a 3 year old buck. it gets me angry as heck inside because I feel like it's hopeless.  I'm an engineer.  science and data is my life. I don't just pull this stuff out of my rear.  hopefully now they'll listen and i'll learn more too with this meeting.

 

Education is certainly a noble pursuit. At some point people choose not to be educated or decide for themselves that they believe otherwise. You can only do so much once you realize who you are working with.

 

Co-ops are a lot of work. When they work, they work VERY well. But, like most things, the majority fail or simply are a ruse to curtain behaviors and actions that are not talked about openly. I remember being involved with a co-op in Virginia with our hunt club. The club long-term leased out more than 4,300 acres, and a few neighbors got together with club leadership to devise a co-op. Let's just say more than one of the neighbors used it as a means to have other areas around their acreage practice QDM and co-op "guidelines" while they secretly kept hammering away at what they wanted. Turns out they were worried the 40 members of the club would have a major impact on their (the neighbors) hunting. Instead, they hatched a great idea that the club bought into, to set up plots and manage doe harvests and let small ones walk. Their 100 or 200 acre parcel bordering the club acreage just got automatically better hunting-wise, and they continued to hunt as they had always, with no real QDM influence.

 

It was pretty brilliant of them if you ask me.

[dbHunterNY]

Check on the details. I would be curious who is speaking. There are active branches in that area but I was just trying to clear it up because people quite often use QDM  interchangeably with a Co-op effort. That Co-op my be practicing Quality Deer Management but might not be. They may also just be looking at a one aspect and NOT a full QDM plan. Also people use QDMA when talking about a quality deer management plan when it is actually a formal organization. That is one of the issues with QDMA's branding.

 

 

I'm pretty sure it's going to be QDMA associated and not just people getting together for deer management.  yea there's the Upper Hudson River Valley branch that covers this area but I don't think there are any co-ops started in Rensselaer county yet that I've heard of.  I'll find out and try to keep you posted.  I've just been informed this was going to happen.

[Bone Seeker]

_{Didn't QDMA just have a meeting recently in NY State??}

[dbHunterNY]

Education is certainly a noble pursuit. At some point people choose not to be educated or decide for themselves that they believe otherwise. You can only do so much once you realize who you are working with.

 

Co-ops are a lot of work. When they work, they work VERY well. But, like most things, the majority fail or simply are a ruse to curtain behaviors and actions that are not talked about openly. I remember being involved with a co-op in Virginia with our hunt club. The club long-term leased out more than 4,300 acres, and a few neighbors got together with club leadership to devise a co-op. Let's just say more than one of the neighbors used it as a means to have other areas around their acreage practice QDM and co-op "guidelines" while they secretly kept hammering away at what they wanted. Turns out they were worried the 40 members of the club would have a major impact on their (the neighbors) hunting. Instead, they hatched a great idea that the club bought into, to set up plots and manage doe harvests and let small ones walk. Their 100 or 200 acre parcel bordering the club acreage just got automatically better hunting-wise, and they continued to hunt as they had always, with no real QDM influence.

 

It was pretty brilliant of them if you ask me.

 

that's one fear I do have but only time will tell.  as long as you're hunting some where else i could care less if you believe what I've learned.  I can't and don't want to force anyone to hunt a certain way that should be a personal choice.  that said I'm not going to hunt my parent's farm and let anyone outside the immediate family do what they please, that's just silly and wasted effort.

[dbHunterNY]

_{Didn't QDMA just have a meeting recently in NY State??}

 

this would be small scale more private and not a conference for NY branches.  it's more like some people wanting to start a co-op or practice QDM under the QDMA's help.  those people getting their neighbors and surrounding land owners together to say here we would like to do this, but listen to what this QDMA person has to say.

[gjs4]

The QDMA would do far better in Albany than your neck of the woods.....

[Hardcore]

Firm believer of QDM here....because I have seen the results in the span of 4 yrs on more than one property.....Obviously your not doing it on small acreage unless you have surrounding partners....if you let them grow the deer sightings go up...deer that are 1.5-3.5 have been running around all their life without arrows and bullets whissing by them...they certainly get more cagey with age but success rates in big boys will go up.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

The QDMA would do far better in Albany than your neck of the woods.....

It isn't quality democrat management. Lol

[phade]

that's one fear I do have but only time will tell.  as long as you're hunting some where else i could care less if you believe what I've learned.  I can't and don't want to force anyone to hunt a certain way that should be a personal choice.  that said I'm not going to hunt my parent's farm and let anyone outside the immediate family do what they please, that's just silly and wasted effort.

 

The pervasive "not in my backyard" belief system is what screws hunters. Unfortunately, some people seem to associate QDM and QDMA with such a mindset. That's unfortunate because QDM and the association isn't about taking care of your backyard and "screwing everyone else." The problem is people and some members think it is - they think food plots will pull deer from other ground and keep them on their ground, they think making better bedding will keep deer off the neighbors who shoot anything, etc. Rather, it's about the entire picture, and not meant for a back-stabbing practice in hunting discipline.

 

Nobody seems to care unless their neighbors are doing all the "damage" to their hunting. People only want to seem to educate those "around them"...specifically, their neighbors who do the damage, and only if they do something they feel they "know better than everyone else."

 

This is not directed at you specifically. It's a general observation of hunter mindset. I fall victim to it as well. I find myself playing defense when hunting, not sharing information to others (other than my hunting partners), and generally taking actions that I believe would help out MY/OUR hunting rather than the neighbors I don't like. Fighting that dog-eat-dog and the general welfare of the hunting populous battle is not easy.

 

I think everyone needs to be slightly more mindful of the big picture, myself included.

Edited March 11, 2014 by phade

[Four Season Whitetail's]

QDMA is just mindset really. Its really just farming and having harvest rules.  I dont believe 1000 acres is enough. I know 720 is not. They still leave the farm on a breeze. They scream doe harvest and in some areas of the state the worst thing you could do is take a doe. Real tough to do but sure wont hurt your age group of bucks if you can get other hunters to play along. If you are in one of the soon to be AR zones you will have some help there as far as buck ages. Land care is farming and smart land use as far as where,when and how you hunt.      

 Spring should be here soon!  Well maybe after this next 10 inches of snow thats on the way!

[phade]

QDMA is just mindset really. Its really just farming and having harvest rules.  I dont believe 1000 acres is enough. I know 720 is not. They still leave the farm on a breeze. They scream doe harvest and in some areas of the state the worst thing you could do is take a doe. Real tough to do but sure wont hurt your age group of bucks if you can get other hunters to play along. If you are in one of the soon to be AR zones you will have some help there as far as buck ages. Land care is farming and smart land use as far as where,when and how you hunt.      

 Spring should be here soon!  Well maybe after this next 10 inches of snow thats on the way!

 

That's a perfect example of misconception. Everyone thinks the QDMA puts out there that does should be shot in volume. And, that's patently false.

 

The QDMA proposes you take what is necessary. If does shouldn't be shot because of low numbers or other biological reasons, then that dictates it. The problem is that most areas are at or above carrying capacity (obviously that is trending downward as of late), so that "take does" is heard more often than "don't take does because your land dictates it." Next thing you know, everyone is associating QDM/QDMA with pounding a war path on does regardless of biological practice.

 

The problem is perpetuated by people who "think" they know QDM and its sort of like a game of telephone. The message gets warped at is reaches mass proportion - i.e. TV or magazines, etc.

 

I can pretty much bet the farm that if Kip Adams or any other such resource were to arrive at an area with low doe numbers...that the suggested plan would reflect it.

Edited March 11, 2014 by phade

[WNYBuckHunter]

QDMA is just mindset really. Its really just farming and having harvest rules.  I dont believe 1000 acres is enough. I know 720 is not. They still leave the farm on a breeze. They scream doe harvest and in some areas of the state the worst thing you could do is take a doe. Real tough to do but sure wont hurt your age group of bucks if you can get other hunters to play along. If you are in one of the soon to be AR zones you will have some help there as far as buck ages. Land care is farming and smart land use as far as where,when and how you hunt.      

 Spring should be here soon!  Well maybe after this next 10 inches of snow thats on the way!

 

QDM is a mindset, or management style. QDMA is an organization. The rest phade covered nicely.

[dbHunterNY]

The pervasive "not in my backyard" belief system is what screws hunters. Unfortunately, some people seem to associate QDM and QDMA with such a mindset. That's unfortunate because QDM and the association isn't about taking care of your backyard and "screwing everyone else." The problem is people and some members think it is - they think food plots will pull deer from other ground and keep them on their ground, they think making better bedding will keep deer off the neighbors who shoot anything, etc. Rather, it's about the entire picture, and not meant for a back-stabbing practice in hunting discipline.

 

Nobody seems to care unless their neighbors are doing all the "damage" to their hunting. People only want to seem to educate those "around them"...specifically, their neighbors who do the damage, and only if they do something they feel they "know better than everyone else."

 

This is not directed at you specifically. It's a general observation of hunter mindset. I fall victim to it as well. I find myself playing defense when hunting, not sharing information to others (other than my hunting partners), and generally taking actions that I believe would help out MY/OUR hunting rather than the neighbors I don't like. Fighting that dog-eat-dog and the general welfare of the hunting populous battle is not easy.

 

I think everyone needs to be slightly more mindful of the big picture, myself included.

 

I know I said that but one has to consider what I said in text of my other posts.  I continue to make efforts to share what I know with others who at least have listened to some of it.  some people time and time again will disregard everything you say.  it's not that I don't care they won't listen so much as I don't care to put more or more effort into telling them what I know when they've had a continuous track record of ignoring it.  no one wants to waste effort and 'spin their wheels' with a person like that.  my efforts are better suited passing info onto someone new that may listen.  you're right we as hunters do at times "play defense".  I would say I'm pretty good with sharing info.  I have been with the neighbors for some time now.  I figure if I tell them about the biggest one I can find it'll give them a reason not to shoot a smaller/younger buck.  everyone is linked.  "it's not you, it's the neighbor on the other side of me that won't to QDM, so I your neighbor I'm out."  I hear ya phade.

[moog5050]

I find myself playing defense when hunting, not sharing information to others (other than my hunting partners), and generally taking actions that I believe would help out MY/OUR hunting rather than the neighbors I don't like.

 

 

I knew you were withholding info - oh its on now!

[dbHunterNY]

That's a perfect example of misconception. Everyone thinks the QDMA puts out there that does should be shot in volume. And, that's patently false.

 

The QDMA proposes you take what is necessary. If does shouldn't be shot because of low numbers or other biological reasons, then that dictates it. The problem is that most areas are at or above carrying capacity (obviously that is trending downward as of late), so that "take does" is heard more often than "don't take does because your land dictates it." Next thing you know, everyone is associating QDM/QDMA with pounding a war path on does regardless of biological practice.

 

The problem is perpetuated by people who "think" they know QDM and its sort of like a game of telephone. The message gets warped at is reaches mass proportion - i.e. TV or magazines, etc.

 

I can pretty much bet the farm that if Kip Adams or any other such resource were to arrive at an area with low doe numbers...that the suggested plan would reflect it.

 

yup... I'd say that's the #1 misconception around here and a big reason why people won't do it.  people don't understand that it's also about habitat management too.  maximizing the holding capacity of your land is a big thing that's pushed I've learned.  one thing I would almost like learn how to do but don't have the time right now are trail cam surveys to determine deer density and harvest numbers.  before that i've got other stuff that takes priority and makes that a difficult task.  I've realized are holding capacity is significantly less during the winter than in warmer months.  we've got many ag and pasture fields that produce big tonnage of food, but once the winter gets here we can't sustain the same number of deer, which then travel a little elsewhere.

[phade]

yup... I'd say that's the #1 misconception around here and a big reason why people won't do it.  people don't understand that it's also about habitat management too.  maximizing the holding capacity of your land is a big thing that's pushed I've learned.  one thing I would almost like learn how to do but don't have the time right now are trail cam surveys to determine deer density and harvest numbers.  before that i've got other stuff that takes priority and makes that a difficult task.  I've realized are holding capacity is significantly less during the winter than in warmer months.  we've got many ag and pasture fields that produce big tonnage of food, but once the winter gets here we can't sustain the same number of deer, which then travel a little elsewhere.

 

Interestingly, I'm speaking at the Field Day for the local QDMA chapter on game camera use and surveys this summer.

 

One thing that does suck for NY is the inability to use licks and bait for such things. While there are things that can be done to gather ratios and other vital information to help shape your management...this limitation is a tough one.

[phade]

I knew you were withholding info - oh its on now!

 

Bases was apparently the second largest buck I knew of? LOL.

[WesternNY]

Coops are work, most of all it takes time and commitment.   It is highly recommended and encouraged.

 

This is a pretty good read:

http://www.qdma.com/news/deer-hunters-in-qdm-cooperatives-enjoy-higher-hunting-satisfaction

 

Keeping doe numbers in-line with carrying capacity and getting 1.5 year old bucks a chance at seeing 2.5 are the main building blocks.... but there are many building blocks when building something.