What is wrong with hunters these days

[Caveman]

I get people coming into work asking for c'mere deer, asking for timed feeders, buying .17 HMR rifles and admitting it's for big game.  Two of the guys I work with shot bucks that they didn't tag or report because they said they know of bigger bucks that they want to kill this season. 

What the hell is so hard about hunting within the limits of the law?  Are big antlers worth compromising your morals (provided you have any) and potentially losing your hunting privileges?

Sorry for the pessimism and the rant but I see it day after day and it's starting to wear thin on my patience. 

[SteveMcD]

You could always call 1-800-DEC-TIPP !!!

[Caveman]

I considered it but after talking with my cousin (a NYS Forest Ranger) he said it probably wouldn't do any good as the only thing I had on the baiters is a rough description, the guys with the .17 probably weren't going to report their deer for the ECO's to follow up on and the evidence from my co-workers un-tagged deer is gone by now.

[Caveman]

Oh and I forgot to mention my other co-worker shot a turkey two weeks after the season closed with a rimfire rifle out of his bedroom window last week.

[wztirem]

I would call the DEC. Sooner or later the DEC will pay them a visit.

[gjs4]

Its not about big antlers- its about a changed culture of "gimmee gimmee" lazy bastards.

The DEC is anemic due to staffing- the focus from the top just seems to be license sales.

Heard of an out of state hunter getting fined 250 for no license...thats less than the damn license! wtf? Called up the DEC on trespassing neighbors shooting within feet of a my house on thanksgiving- tthe eco asked me ho my property was posted  (in detail) before agreeing to come out.

Fallry sure i have baiting neighbors and they shoot all sorts of 2 yo bucks and show them off....nothing makes me happier than to show them my bigger ones, withing legal limits, and know my kids will be raised right.

Just cant change everything....

[jasons75]

Its Just too easy for people to break the law when there isn't enough enforcement... I feel its easier and less stressful just to follow the rules... Some people think they are better and above the rules. Those people need their ****s nailed to a tree and covered in honey... oh wait... that could be considered baiting  ???

[erussell]

You would think they would be out in force trying to nail people when they need money. The police come out of the woodwork and donut shops when the city is low on money, to write tickets for minor infractions. I can only surmise that the State of NY is intentionally destroying the DEC for some reason. I wonder if it has to do with the Fracking issue. Get rid of everyone who will oppose the issue and then put their people in who will cover up any problems.  Just thinking outloud  ???

[Doc]

Just a word about your reference to people coming in and buying .17 caliber rifles for big-game. Obviously they should know better, but also, one would think that the law would have set some kind of minimum requirement on caliber size ...... they have not. Center fire is all that is used to describe a legal deer rifle in NYS. :

[Caveman]

Very true Doc, my friend and I were talking about that the other day.  A .22 Hornet is sufficient for deer in NYS...ridiculous.  But nevertheless ,17HMR is still rimfire.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Its not about big antlers- its about a changed culture of "gimmee gimmee" lazy bastards.

The DEC is anemic due to staffing- the focus from the top just seems to be license sales.

Heard of an out of state hunter getting fined 250 for no license...thats less than the damn license! wtf? Called up the DEC on trespassing neighbors shooting within feet of a my house on thanksgiving- tthe eco asked me ho my property was posted  (in detail) before agreeing to come out.

Fallry sure i have baiting neighbors and they shoot all sorts of 2 yo bucks and show them off....nothing makes me happier than to show them my bigger ones, withing legal limits, and know my kids will be raised right.

Just cant change everything....

Agreed....best way to combat it is raise the next generation right

[the blur]

I've watched a guy drag a spike out of zone 3 AR territory.

what is one to do ?

He said he thought it was bigger.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I don't know how big it was but if it was under 3" it technically was a legal deer...assuming he had a DMP

[Jennifer]

WildCat, how depressing.

Though this is not necessarily hunting related.... When I was getting my license this year, there was a guy at the counter purchasing a youth model rifle for his 8 year old son; I know because he was talking to my husband and I. We thought this was very nice until he said that they feed wild birds in their yard, and 'lure the birds in so that their kids can shoot them'. Talk about teaching kids bad ethics from the get go! I used to intern with the DEC and I also have been active with birds and rehab so I know very well that what they were doing was illegal (non-game birds that are native are protected by federal law). even though I didn't know anything about the guy, I reported it to the DEC, and told them that if they needed to they could find his information on the paperwork he had to fill out to purchase the firearm. I figured they wouldn't care and wouldn't go through the trouble, but to my surprise several weeks later I got an email from them saying that they tracked the guy down and that he lives in PA, and that they turned the case over to the PA game commission.

[Mr VJP]

In my opinion, this unlawful attitude is pervasive in all areas of society, not just among hunters.

Many people are self centered and immoral.  They feel it is only illegal if you get caught.  heck just look at all the speeders on the highway and motorists who don't obey traffic laws in general.

[Doc]

Very true Doc, my friend and I were talking about that the other day.  A .22 Hornet is sufficient for deer in NYS...ridiculous.  But nevertheless ,17HMR is still rimfire.

I do apologize. My mistake. Of course a .17 caliber is a rimfire. I must have had a brain-cramp It happens every so often. :-[

Doc

[Doc]

In my opinion, this unlawful attitude is pervasive in all areas of society, not just among hunters.

Many people are self centered and immoral.  They feel it is only illegal if you get caught.  heck just look at all the speeders on the highway and motorists who don't obey traffic laws in general.

You're right. Of course we all focus on hunting lawbreakers and ethically-challenged (lol... I just made that one up) since this is a hunting forum, but your point is absolutely correct. We like to beat ourselves up as having the only slobs and lowlifes in society but of course we are only representative of our own percentage of society in general. If hunters seem to be getting more selfish and self-centered in our attitudes it is only because we represent a certain percentage of a society that is doing exactly the same.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Very true Doc, my friend and I were talking about that the other day.  A .22 Hornet is sufficient for deer in NYS...ridiculous.  But nevertheless ,17HMR is still rimfire.

I do apologize. My mistake. Of course a .17 caliber is a rimfire. I must have had a brain-cramp It happens every so often. :-[

Doc

I don't think you were totally wrong Doc. I seem to recall there were or are still a 17 that is center fire. way undersized for sure.

I alos remember years ago that the regulation for a deer hunting round was 25 caliber or larger. so teh 22's ...243...and such could not be used.

[steve863]

I alos remember years ago that the regulation for a deer hunting round was 25 caliber or larger. so teh 22's ...243...and such could not be used.

That is one regulation they probably should have kept!  I know I would get arguments about the .243, but one thing I can't handle is guys going hunting with their rigged up AR-15's in .223 thinking they are ready to hunt deer with them.  The .223 is far from an adequate deer rifle!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

personally I like to see a 1000 ft-ps. of energy...that would make the .223 a 100 yard gun...round depending. I wuld really like to see 25 caliber or higher. with the managed recoil rounds anyone can find a gun to shoot comfortable in that calliber or above. The .243 has taken alot of deer though and a well placed bullet inside most NY hunting ranges it will work fine. Like any weapon...works within it's range...in the proper practiced hands

[steve863]

I honestly never could figure out why some hunters feel that the only guns they could shoot are .223's or .243's and have the fear of God put into them if anyone suggests something a little more potent?  It's not like it's going to feel like a Mike Tyson punch to the jaw if one tries to shoot a .308, .270, 30-06, etc for even a smaller framed guy.  It really isn't that difficult to handle the recoil of these better overall choices for deer, yet many hunters cry in pain at just the thought of shooting one. 

[Mr VJP]

Remington has the .17 Remington which is a center fire round with a 4000 fps muzzle velocity.  It has plenty of energy too.  But designed as a varmint round, it lacks a good bullet for any kind of penetration.

I have never done it, but many deer have been harvested with the .223 using good bullets designed to penetrate.  If you look at a ballistics table you can see they do have the energy to do it, but the shot has to be well placed.

Some people can shoot it more accurately than a bigger round.  If it's legal, don't knock it.  Freedom of choice is a good thing my friends.

[fasteddie]

Well  , I think a lot of guys bring up using the 223 just to argue . A 223 and 22 are the same diameter and you hear guys argue that their Uncle Elroy , or whoever shoots deer with a 22 cal all the time and how he takes them with well placed neck shots , blah blah blah . I cannot fathom shooting a deer with a 22 !

Freedom of choise my butt !

You have to be pretty much of a wimp to shoot deer with a Rem .17 or .22 , .223 !

[Culvercreek hunt club]

the reduced recoil rounds are great. I have shot a few to try them out in my Brother in laws gun...what a difference and not that much loss in ballistics....at our normal hunting ranges anyway.

I know they will take them down VJP...just stating my preference . I have a 22-250 but wouldn't carry it for deer. I know it will do it and always thought about trying it but just seems like too small of a bullet to me. I have always looked at low end energy for whitetail at around 1000 ft-ps. what would you consider adequate energy to effectively kill a deer sized animal?

[Mr VJP]

You have to be pompous, judgmental and righteous to say "Freedom of Choice My Butt!"

Perhaps you long for a dictatorship in this land?

Energy should be 1000 ft lbs for me to be happy, but I don't think I have the right to tell others what to do if they are not breaking any laws.