Tim McGraw to Headline Anti-Gun Concert in Connecticut

[Culvercreek hunt club]

You see that's the point.  I can understand what Doc was saying in his post questioning why kids go into schools to shoot them up these days, while they didn't years ago.  I surely don't have a good answer for this, and probably no one has any definitive answers.  We all have theories, but I don't think anyone can prove any as fact.  I do know however, that if a kid did go into a school back in the 50's with his single shot squirrel gun, he most certainly would not have mowed down 20 kids with it in a few short minutes.  That's the difference here that many gun owners just can't seem to admit to.  If you can't see how an AR rifle or semi-auto pistol could cause more damage than a double barreled shotgun or revolver, then you guys will NEVER get it.  I am not calling for the ban of these weapons, but the complexion of the game has changed in the efficiency of firepower available today compared to what people owned a few decades ago.   I bet for many sick minded individuals it's become sort of something to look forward to when they would one day post their picture on TV and newspapers that they've murdered a bunch of people with some sort of modern quick firing/loading weapon.  Did we gun enthusiasts help create such a culture by wanting to own all this para-military type weaponry and make them the "cool" weapon to own??   You guys can tell me.  I surely have my own theories about it all.

There is where you are wrong. Defenseless targets in a situation like a school. we should count our lucky stars that those untrained shooters didn't wander in with semi or pump shotguns loaded with 00 Buck. The current death count  would have paled in comparison. That ties pretty much into my issue with the whole "gun Control" agenda. If we could take every evil black gun and make them disappear from the public's hands, would anything change? Honestly?  I don't believe so. Because the next one would be using that semi or pump shotgun or the Remington 7400. As is PROVEN by their previous actions what is the next step of the Anti's? That is why those in favor of guns have taken such a hard line stance and dug in. There is an end game from the Anti's. they have proven that an incremental approach is fine with them and have shown they have no intention of slowing or stopping.

 

Edited April 23, 2015 by Culvercreek hunt club

[steve863]

You guys are a freaking riot.  So teachers should be armed?  Our schools will look like something out of the Nazi era, where you had armed SS officers indoctrinating the young,

 

As far as illegal weapons, I have yet to hear that guns were sold to bad guys directly from the backdoors of the Smith&Wesson, Colt, Ruger, etc. manufacturing plants.  As far as I know most ALL weapons enter the market LEGALLY.  What happens after they reach a legal owner??  Your guess is as good as mine, since in many states you can even sell pistols privately without any sort of background check.  Whether you want to accept it or not, guns end up falling into criminal hands from original LEGAL purchasers.   With the mish-mash of laws that don't require private sales to go thru background checks, this can most certainly be expected.

[jjb4900]

I just don't get the "free for all" attitude that some have when it comes to gun ownership..........I can't imagine anyone having a problem with safe storage laws. I've seen the comments in the past about "I need my gun close by and readily available to protect myself so nobody is gonna tell me what to do"....................what happens, god forbid, if that knock comes on your front door to tell you a loved one was killed while playing with a gun they found in their friends parents nightstand.......do you accept it because it's their right to keep their guns as they choose? 

[steve863]

There is where you are wrong. Defenseless targets in a situation like a school. we should count our lucky stars that those untrained shooters didn't wander in with semi or pump shotguns loaded with 00 Buck. The current death count  would have paled in comparison. That ties pretty much into my issue with the whole "gun Control" agenda. If we could take every evil black gun and make them disappear from the public's hands, would anything change? Honestly?  I don't believe so. Because the next one would be using that semi or pump shotgun or the Remington 7400. As is PROVEN by their previous actions what is the next step of the Anti's? That is why those in favor of guns have taken such a hard line stance and dug in. There is an end game from the Anti's. they have proven that an incremental approach is fine with them and have shown they have no intention of slowing or stopping.

 

 

I definitely don't agree that a pump or semi shotgun with buckshot would be as effective.  You can fire off way more with an AR or semi-auto pistol and be able to carry and reload a whole lot more ammo also.  

 

You guys keep pounding on the point that first it would be AR's, next would be the Rem 7400, but I have always said that without some sort of compromise they WILL take everything away from us.  Without compromise their is nothing in a friendship, marriage, you name it.  Some of you think we've compromised too much already, but that's because many of you can't accept ANY gun control whatsoever.  At least some uniformity in the freaking gun laws that we have in this country would be a start.  What freaking good is NY's SAFE act when someone can easily purchase anything they want down south?  Makes NO sense at all.

Edited April 23, 2015 by steve863

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I just don't get the "free for all" attitude that some have when it comes to gun ownership..........I can't imagine anyone having a problem with safe storage laws. I've seen the comments in the past about "I need my gun close by and readily available to protect myself so nobody is gonna tell me what to do"....................what happens, god forbid, if that knock comes on your front door to tell you a loved one was killed while playing with a gun they found in their friends parents nightstand.......do you accept it because it's their right to keep their guns as they choose? 

So that would be the end of it? no more laws after that? ....................Didn't think so.

 

about 15 years ago my daughter was 5. I sent her to a closet to retrieve a new deck of cards so we could play a game. (we didn't have a full deck from her previous activities..lol). it had to be 10 minutes and she had not returned. I walked up into the bedroom she was standing there just staring into the closet. A buddy had given me an old broken percussion side by side shotgun that was broken in half just in front of the hammers. I was going to restore it for a visual art piece for above the fireplace. Not a functioning one. I asked here what was taking so long and she said " the gun is on top of the cards and I cant touch them". Wonder why that was? The ones with kids touching and using guns unauthorized are doing a crap job parenting in my opinion. Maybe we should be limiting them from having kids. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I definitely don't agree that a pump or semi shotgun with buckshot would be as effective.  You can fire off way more with an AR or semi-auto pistol and be able to carry and reload a whole lot more ammo also.  

 

You guys keep pounding on the point that first it would be AR's, next would be the Rem 7400, but I have always said that without some sort of compromise they WILL take everything away from us.  Without compromise their is nothing in a friendship, marriage, you name it.  Some of you think we've compromised too much already, but that's because many of you can't accept ANY gun control whatsoever.  At least some uniformity in the freaking gun laws that we have in this country would be a start.  What freaking good is NY's SAFE act when someone can easily purchase anything they want down south?  Makes NO sense at all.

And it makes no sense at all that you can not recognize that they have no intention of ever stopping until they get them all (from law abiding folks anyway) and you hit it on the head. Country wide laws would only be a start. Thinking anything else is naive.

 

how much more ammo do you need if three rounds of 00 Buck is just shy of a dreaded high capacity magazine? If you read the description of what took place, him shooting at some groups huddled together how can you say that?

 

Think of a classroom size and this account of what took place and see if you still hold the AR was more effective. You ever use or see 00 at a classroom distance?

 

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/12/new_grisly_timeline_of_events.html

[jjb4900]

So that would be the end of it? no more laws after that? ....................Didn't think so.

 

about 15 years ago my daughter was 5. I sent her to a closet to retrieve a new deck of cards so we could play a game. (we didn't have a full deck from her previous activities..lol). it had to be 10 minutes and she had not returned. I walked up into the bedroom she was standing there just staring into the closet. A buddy had given me an old broken percussion side by side shotgun that was broken in half just in front of the hammers. I was going to restore it for a visual art piece for above the fireplace. Not a functioning one. I asked here what was taking so long and she said " the gun is on top of the cards and I cant touch them". Wonder why that was? The ones with kids touching and using guns unauthorized are doing a crap job parenting in my opinion. Maybe we should be limiting them from having kids. 

unfortunately not everyone is responsible in that way..........the kid on the bus who decides he's gonna bring Daddy's gun to school because he has full access and was never taught any different is the ones we gotta worry about......should there not be consequences for the adult who allows his child or mentally deficient family member access to his guns and something goes wrong?......or do we just shrug our shoulders and move on? you would think that common sense is all that's needed when it comes to safe storage of guns, but that seems to be in short supply today..............and there's no doubt that kids get into all types of trouble with all types of things they shouldn't have access to, but they never make national headlines.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

It blows my mind the guys on here that are so fond of bending over and grabbing their ankles. I have said it before and you would think even you guys should support this. If there is all this public support for the Anti's position and we need more laws to make the problems of the world go away, then CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION!!!! There is a process, use it.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

unfortunately not everyone is responsible in that way..........the kid on the bus who decides he's gonna bring Daddy's gun to school because he has full access and was never taught any different is the ones we gotta worry about......should there not be consequences for the adult who allows his child or mentally deficient family member access to his guns and something goes wrong?......or do we just shrug our shoulders and move on? you would think that common sense is all that's needed when it comes to safe storage of guns, but that seems to be in short supply today..............and there's no doubt that kids get into all types of trouble with all types of things they shouldn't have access to, but they never make national headlines.

Yeah, lets stop them from further ruining society and having more kids. After all they have proven they can't do it correctly, right? I will add we have a responsibility as gun owners to limit access to those they could hurt. we have plenty of laws on the books currently to prosecute them. Do we really need more laws? by the time it is enforced the horse is out of the barn anyway

Edited April 23, 2015 by Culvercreek hunt club

[jjb4900]

I definitely don't agree that a pump or semi shotgun with buckshot would be as effective.  You can fire off way more with an AR or semi-auto pistol and be able to carry and reload a whole lot more ammo also.  

 

You guys keep pounding on the point that first it would be AR's, next would be the Rem 7400, but I have always said that without some sort of compromise they WILL take everything away from us.  Without compromise their is nothing in a friendship, marriage, you name it.  Some of you think we've compromised too much already, but that's because many of you can't accept ANY gun control whatsoever.  At least some uniformity in the freaking gun laws that we have in this country would be a start.  What freaking good is NY's SAFE act when someone can easily purchase anything they want down south?  Makes NO sense at all.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I wonder how many of the guns used in these recent mass shootings were illegally obtained or owned............I bet most were legally bought and owned.

 

Legally bought and owned by the shooters? Well the columbine kids got them through illegal purchases and straw purchases, so not in that case. Lanza killed his mom and used her guns, so no to that one as well....Im sure if you take the time to seache a bit you can get those answers pretty fast.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I guess I didn't realize I was talking to an expert on the gun trade. My point still stands, what headline sounds better? Illegal gun used in murder or the one taken from parent?

 

If the kid has access to a key or the combination, that's not necessarily a gun safe now is it? Don't be silly when you know my point is valid. Making the guns INACCESSIBLE to kids is what needs to happen.

 

 

 

Expert? No, but I know enough to be able to tell you what I did.

 

Once the owner of the safe is dead, searching for the keys or combo is not that hard to do. Im not being silly at all. If someone kills me and finds my keys to my safe, steals my guns and blows 100 people away, then how did I go wrong or store my guns improperly? You just cant admit your point is flawed.

 

BTW Lanza wasnt a kid.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Do you have kids? There's no freaking way I want a teacher with a gun on her hip... and despite what you and your small circle of friends think, there's no way that ever happens.

 

I'm ok with armed guards. Many inner city schools already have them. But don't bitch when your taxes go up. Hell I paid over $3k for school taxes in NY. These armed guards aren't free. I'd write the check; but would you?

 

You are ok with armed guards, but not with an armed teacher? Care to explain why, or is this just more of your out both sides of your mouth speak again?

[WNYBuckHunter]

I get the vibe most here are full a total free for all with guns. No legislation what so ever. Am I wrong?

 

 

Yes.

[jjb4900]

Legally bought and owned by the shooters? Well the columbine kids got them through illegal purchases and straw purchases, so not in that case. Lanza killed his mom and used her guns, so no to that one as well....Im sure if you take the time to seache a bit you can get those answers pretty fast.

I was thinking more along the lines of guns being bought from the trunk of a car in a back alley with the intent of using it for a crime............the guns Lanza got were legally bought and purchased and for all we know mom let him play with them as he pleased, not illegal....and this is what I found about Columbine and the weapons, although I'm sure there's more than one story out there.

http://extras.denverpost.com/news/shot0427a.htm

[Huntscreek]

You guys are a freaking riot.  So teachers should be armed?  Our schools will look like something out of the Nazi era, where you had armed SS officers indoctrinating the young,

 

As far as illegal weapons, I have yet to hear that guns were sold to bad guys directly from the backdoors of the Smith&Wesson, Colt, Ruger, etc. manufacturing plants.  As far as I know most ALL weapons enter the market LEGALLY.  What happens after they reach a legal owner??  Your guess is as good as mine, since in many states you can even sell pistols privately without any sort of background check.  Whether you want to accept it or not, guns end up falling into criminal hands from original LEGAL purchasers.   With the mish-mash of laws that don't require private sales to go thru background checks, this can most certainly be expected.

The Nazi's you really want to go there fine. If only all people in Nazi Germany had all been armed, not just the SS and the elitist's. Now if only the German people had founding fathers to have given them the great gift of guidelines in writing. If only the Germans would of not trusted the Government so much and had challenged it, maybe no WWII. All men are created equal, and this great thing called the Constitution/Bill of rights and the good old 2nd Amendment comes with great responsibility. I'm not saying just teachers should be armed if the choose if that's how you took it, All Americans who want to exercise there right to self protection and there personal effects should. Now if your Mentally unfit than NO, but only with due process shall that right be stricken. All weapons enter legally, but end up in the wrong hands by criminal activity. Now The DOJ put Legal guns into the wrong hands, Fast & Furious comes to mined. We live in a dangerous world and the only way to even the odds is be better armed and prepared. Now Common sense has to come into play when anyone has a gun in the home. Guys its really is interesting how come NYS is in such a mess, people mistake rights for privilege. Question quick answer gunmen is shooting in your child's school going from room to room would you want a GUN quick answer as fast as you read it, its to late its over If your gun was on you you had a chance. I think I'll keep my gun close to me thank you, do what you want under your roof but don't go taken my rights away.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I was thinking more along the lines of guns being bought from the trunk of a car in a back alley with the intent of using it for a crime............the guns Lanza got were legally bought and purchased and for all we know mom let him play with them as he pleased, not illegal....and this is what I found about Columbine and the weapons, although I'm sure there's more than one story out there.

http://extras.denverpost.com/news/shot0427a.htm

 

A little more research and youll find how they were bought.

 

As has been said, all guns originate from legal purchases. How they end up in the illegal sale, well theres probably countless ways you could come up with that lol.

[steve863]

 

 

Sure looks like this dude is inflicting some traumatic brain injuries on himself firing away like that with that shotgun!  LOL   Firing an AR or semi-auto pistol won't produce nearly as much recoil and he can reload in an instant.  Arguments about this kind of stuff will never end here when today you are comparing a shotgun to an AR and tomorrow I will be told that cars, hammers, pressure cookers can kill as many people too.  The FACTS are that firearms of ALL fashions are used in the majority of murders in this country and there is NO denying that.

[Huntscreek]

Read this study it will get your facts straight.

 

Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don’t reduce the murder rate

posted at 3:21 pm on August 28, 2013 by Bruce McQuain

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In fact, it appears, bans may actually see them increase. Here’s a summary of the study’s findings:

The Harvard study attempts to answer the question of whether or not banning firearms would reduce murders and suicides.  Researchers looked at crime data from several European countries and found that countries with 

HIGHER

 gun ownership often had 

LOWER

 murder rates.

Russia, for example, enforces very strict gun control on its people, but its murder rate remains quite high.  In fact, the murder rate in Russia is 

four times higher 

than in the “gun-ridden” United States, cites the study. ”Homicide results suggest that where guns are scarce other weapons are substituted in killings.” In other words, the elimination of guns does not eliminate murder, and in the case of gun-controlled Russia, murder rates are quite high.

The study revealed several European countries with significant gun ownership, like Norway, Finland, Germany and France – had remarkably low murder rates. Contrast that with Luxembourg, “where handguns are totally banned and ownership of any kind of gun is minimal, had a murder rate 

nine times higher 

than Germany in 2002.

The study found no evidence to suggest that the availability of guns contributes to higher murder rates anywhere in the world.  ”Of course, it may be speculated that murder rates around the world would be higher if guns were more available. But there is simply no evidence to support this.”

And, as the study points out, where guns are banned, murderers still find weapons with which to do their dirty work.  The difference is that the victims potential means of self-defense.  With guns available, one would assume their deterrent effect if not outright effectiveness in the self-defense realm would predictably knock the murder rate down.  Criminals and murderers are less likely to attack if the possibility the potential victim is armed exists.  Common sense 101.

The study found no evidence to suggest that the availability of guns contributes to higher murder rates anywhere in the world.  ”Of course, it may be speculated that murder rates around the world would be higher if guns were more available. But there is simply no evidence to support this.”

And finally:

Further, the report cited, “the determinants of murder and suicide are basic social, economic, and cultural factors, not the prevalence of some form of deadly mechanism.”  Meaning, it’s not guns that kill people.

People kill people.

Well how about that?  The study is published in Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy.  You can read it here.  Pass it around to your anti-gun friends.  Point out this isn’t some right-wing think tank that pumped out the study.  Then appeal to their common sense.  Of course that may be difficult to do with someone who actually believes that the simple act of banning a weapon will magically lower the murder rate because without that weapon, people just wouldn’t murder each other … or something.

~McQ

Blogging at QandO

[steve863]

Read this study it will get your facts straight.

 

Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don’t reduce the murder rate

posted at 3:21 pm on August 28, 2013 by Bruce McQuain

• Share on Facebook 15K
•  
• 16K SHARES

 

 

In fact, it appears, bans may actually see them increase. Here’s a summary of the study’s findings:

And, as the study points out, where guns are banned, murderers still find weapons with which to do their dirty work.  The difference is that the victims potential means of self-defense.  With guns available, one would assume their deterrent effect if not outright effectiveness in the self-defense realm would predictably knock the murder rate down.  Criminals and murderers are less likely to attack if the possibility the potential victim is armed exists.  Common sense 101.

The Harvard study attempts to answer the question of whether or not banning firearms would reduce murders and suicides.  Researchers looked at crime data from several European countries and found that countries with HIGHER gun ownership often had LOWER murder rates.

Russia, for example, enforces very strict gun control on its people, but its murder rate remains quite high.  In fact, the murder rate in Russia is four times higher than in the “gun-ridden” United States, cites the study. ”Homicide results suggest that where guns are scarce other weapons are substituted in killings.” In other words, the elimination of guns does not eliminate murder, and in the case of gun-controlled Russia, murder rates are quite high.

The study revealed several European countries with significant gun ownership, like Norway, Finland, Germany and France – had remarkably low murder rates. Contrast that with Luxembourg, “where handguns are totally banned and ownership of any kind of gun is minimal, had a murder rate nine times higher than Germany in 2002.

The study found no evidence to suggest that the availability of guns contributes to higher murder rates anywhere in the world.  ”Of course, it may be speculated that murder rates around the world would be higher if guns were more available. But there is simply no evidence to support this.”

The study found no evidence to suggest that the availability of guns contributes to higher murder rates anywhere in the world.  ”Of course, it may be speculated that murder rates around the world would be higher if guns were more available. But there is simply no evidence to support this.”

And finally:

Further, the report cited, “the determinants of murder and suicide are basic social, economic, and cultural factors, not the prevalence of some form of deadly mechanism.”  Meaning, it’s not guns that kill people.

People kill people.

Well how about that?  The study is published in Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy.  You can read it here.  Pass it around to your anti-gun friends.  Point out this isn’t some right-wing think tank that pumped out the study.  Then appeal to their common sense.  Of course that may be difficult to do with someone who actually believes that the simple act of banning a weapon will magically lower the murder rate because without that weapon, people just wouldn’t murder each other … or something.

~McQ

Blogging at QandO

 

Why don't they start comparing the gun murder rate of the US to those other European countries where there is significant gun ownership and not only Luxenbourg or Russia which have had increased crime rates for a good while now?  All those other European countries mentioned in this article have gun control measures significantly stricter than here in the US.  You guys would be bitching up a storm if you had to go thru what they do there to own firearms.  And guess what?  Their murder rates are less than half of what they are here.

 

Murder rate per 100,000

 

Norway 2.2

Finland 1.6

Germany 0.8

France 1.0

USA    4.7

[Huntscreek]

 

Why don't they start comparing the gun murder rate of the US to those other European countries where there is significant gun ownership and not only Luxenbourg or Russia which have had increased crime rates for a good while now?  All those other European countries mentioned in this article have gun control measures significantly stricter than here in the US.  You guys would be bitching up a storm if you had to go thru what they do there to own firearms.  And guess what?  Their murder rates are less than half of what they are here.

 

Murder rate per 100,000

 

Norway 2.2

Finland 1.6

Germany 0.8

France 1.0

USA    4.7

 

Please tell me what you mean by you guys, Gun-owners? The Un-wanted NY'ers Cuomo spoke of? please tell us what you mean by you guys. Are you not Pro-Gun or are you confused and are you Pro-hunting but Anti-Gun, if so how long do you think you have that privilege to hunt without your right to bare arms. Boy I just can't see how that works for you. Are you just wanting to own what you think and see is ok as a firearm & tell us guys what we can & can't Have.  

[growalot]

 

Murder rate per 100,000

 

Norway 2.2

Finland 1.6

Germany 0.8

France 1.0

USA    4.7

 

 

 

Before you jump on this let me say I KNOW it states per 100,000..THAT Said lets look at total populations as of 2013...Considering the density of our population and the cultural differences beyond guns...It' doesn't look quite as drastic when looking at a broader picture.

 

Norway - 4.72 million ppl                    (2.2)

 

Finland- 5.27 million ppl                     (1.6)

 

France - 65 million ppl                       (1.0)

 

Germany - 80.76 million ppl              (.08)

 

USA - 316.67 million ppl                   ( 4.7)

[steve863]

Please tell me what you mean by you guys, Gun-owners? The Un-wanted NY'ers Cuomo spoke of? please tell us what you mean by you guys. Are you not Pro-Gun or are you confused and are you Pro-hunting but Anti-Gun, if so how long do you think you have that privilege to hunt without your right to bare arms. Boy I just can't see how that works for you. Are you just wanting to own what you think and see is ok as a firearm & tell us guys what we can & can't Have.  

 

 

I refer to YOU guys as those who can't handle any form of gun control, even something as simple as background checks.  Plenty of hunters and gun owners that are not as paranoid as you and don't think that ALL laws pertaining to gun ownership will lead to total confiscation.  In fact I would say that the majority of hunters and gun owners don't.  So you can call us stupid if and when you ever see total confiscation.

[Doc]

So at least I've given solutions... all you do is speak in philosophical terms. Lets hear some solutions doc... It must have been what, 40+ years since you were in school? How long since your kids graduated? Somehow I guess you're still connected so lets hear some solutions.

 

The NRA came up with a solution that all the anti-gun people poo-poohed because it didn't fit in with their agenda. A security officer added to the staff and stationed at the gate with a lock-out button within easy reach would be a meaningful defense that would protect against any weapon of choice including all versions of guns or any other paraphernalia of destruction. But as it turns out, the gun opponents do have a price-tag that they put on their kids. There is a cost in dollars to child protection that they are unwilling to pay.

 

As far as your so-called solutions, I am assuming that you are talking about solutions that have a chance of working. Solutions aimed at trying to predict what variety, color or nasty look of the gun that might be used, is not a solution at all, but rather a wishful guessing game.

 

And I guess that your reference to the number of years since I have been out of school is to imply that somehow common sense has a shelf-life, and somehow after your kids have graduated that you retire from society and lose contact with what is happening down at that institute that my property tax money helps to support. Well, I can tell you, and hopefully you will eventually learn this, that isn't the case.  Is there something that I have missed that excuses today's issue of teenage murders? Did I miss something over the last bunch of decades that would somehow explain why kids are even considering mass murders at school. Is this secret information something that only young parents are privy to? What is this hidden Ah-hah! information that is only available when you have kids going to school? I think that young or old, the issues involving school security are no more obvious whether you have kids at school or not.

 

No, I would hope that there is no age group that has decided that some problems are acceptable simply as collateral losses and that it is good logical thinking to go after a surrogate implement instead of the actual cause or some sound action of real protection. You don't like the appearances of armed and trained security guards safeguarding your kids, well compare that vision to the sight of a section of school building blown to pieces because we decided to save a paltry level of tax money. That's the reality of the future. Those are your real choices. Yes, I say put a barrier between those who would do such horrific acts and the children that we value. Cost be damned. And let's stop trying to decide which semi-auto weapon looks more dangerous or other goofy and arbitrary ideas of flailing around trying to do something meaningful.

 

And by the way, even with protective measures in place, lets ramp up efforts to find out what has caused these thoughts to enter kid's minds. It is much more pervasive than simply calling it mental illness. There is some kind of insidious disease moving through our society. Maybe it's time to look for a cure rather than simply throwing up our hands, banning a bunch of weapons and accessories, and patting ourselves on the back thinking we have actually accomplished something. 

 

[steve863]

Before you jump on this let me say I KNOW it states per 100,000..THAT Said lets look at total populations as of 2013...Considering the density of our population and the cultural differences beyond guns...It' doesn't look quite as drastic when looking at a broader picture.

 

Norway - 4.72 million ppl                    (2.2)

 

Finland- 5.27 million ppl                     (1.6)

 

France - 65 million ppl                       (1.0)

 

Germany - 80.76 million ppl              (.08)

 

USA - 316.67 million ppl                   ( 4.7)

 

 

Fair enough I do realize that our population is way more than Germany and most European countries, but so is Germany's over Luxembourg which has only 550,000 residents.  So if you are discounting comparisons of the US to Germany than you also need to discount what they claim in the article below.

 

 

 "Contrast that with Luxembourg, “where handguns are totally banned and ownership of any kind of gun is minimal, had a murder rate nine times higher than Germany in 2002."

 

Comparing a population of 550K to 80M is not exactly apples to apples either.