Shorten the NY Gun Season?

[skyzmine]

Skyzmine..SZ is different than NZ. Smaller woods...more hunters in smaller tracts. More pressure. I believe thats what he is getting at. You even got stressed over a post

we are supposed to according to his post,

my post is just a rebuttal

[steve863]

OK, why don't you tell us why I am wrong?? The state could give a damn about antlers.  Antlers are the obsession of hunters and not the DEC.  The state wants and hopes that 200,000 plus deer get taken each year and they could care less about what the antlers of the bucks look like.  Please prove to us that they really care about them?  Good luck in your search.

The state does care. There would not be any restrictions at all if your failed logic was true. Ask the DEC yourself.  I'm not going to do research for you.

the article and comments directly from DEC states they see no biologic benefit of AR. They also state it IS a social benefit. Doesn't sound to me like they have any desire in the arena of horns....mostly herd health...wich they say we have.....and population control....which they say they are at the level they want..Their words...not mine

You're absolutely right, Culver.  That article pretty much says what the DEC thinks about AR's.  The only reason they implemented AR's in the few units in the Catskills was because there were a few very vocal "sportsmans" groups crying for them and telling the DEC that everyone who hunts there wants them also.  The DEC pretty much implemented them as an experiment and nothing more.  I have yet to read that the DEC is deeming AR's a success in those units and haven't seen them implemented elsewhere in NYS either.  Deer population control has absolutely NOTHING to do with antlers.  I can't believe that some people think there is some relation between the two.

0

[WNYBuckHunter]

Ahhhhh, and thats where the x-bow comes into play. 

Jee whiz, it seems like the x-bow is the solution to everything for you?  I could care less if they make the x-bows legal during bow season, gun season or any other season, but to think any gun hunter would be happy giving up a week or two of their gun season for a bloody x-bow is the silliest thing I ever heard!  Plus they would have to spend another $500-$1000 for the darned contraption just to hunt those weeks they lost from their gun season.  Just how would this possibly make any gun hunter happy???  Will NEVER happen in NYS!

You dont read or comprehend things very well all the time steve. I have never said it was the complete solution, but once again you cherry pick one comment and go off on your tangent.

BTW, I have never, ever said I dont like gun hunters. I started out gun hunting and only got into bow hunting a handful of years ago. I have never hunted with a x-bow and unless they change the seasons up similarly to how I have mentioned, it will be a long time before I do. The reasons why I say the gun season should be shortened is because I dont have my blinders on, and can see what would make for better quality hunting for everyone. Dont try and misconstrue that to mean bigger antlers either, there are plenty of bucks in NY with big racks now, and I have my share of encounters with them every year. Ill never understand people that dont want things to get better even when hunter numbers drop every year.

So since I don't comprehend things well, are you also trying to tell us that hunter numbers in NYS are dropping because of the poor hunting we have in NYS??  So a shorter season and possibly better hunting will bring hunters back while the long season and the lousy hunting we currently have is making hunters hang it up??  I myself think hunters would prefer to have a longer time frame to hunt over a shorter frame where they have NO choice but put all their hunting time in a short two week time frame.  Many who don't like gun hunting think it sounds like Vietnam now on opening day, I could imagine things being doubly worse if gun hunters knew they had less time available to them.  If gun hunters are to lose two weeks of their season, I would hope that bow hunters get to lose three at the same time.  What's fair is fair.  One group shouldn't get the shaft while the other doesn't.

Look steve, the whole key to shortening the gun season and improving the overall hunting is compromise. Thats what the crossbow represents and becomes, less range and a slight expense, but less pressure on the deer and a longer overall season for the gun hunter that picks up the crossbow.

As far as your comprehension skills go, I have said at least once (if not more times) in this thread that shortening the season or crossbows were not the only things that need be done to make a big improvement in the hunting in NY. And yes, I do believe that PART (dont misconstrue it as "all" or "the only") of the reason why the numbers are dropping off has to do with the lack of quality in the hunting in many parts of the state. Whether you feel the same way or not, many people dont want to sit and freeze after spending a bunch of money and see no deer because they are all in hiding after the intense pressure of having lead hurled at them for weeks on end. Not everyone has a lightly hunted chunk of land to go to like some of us do.

There you go again with the crossbows!  "Longer overall season for the gun hunter that picks up the crossbow".  The crossbow in my opinion has ZERO significance in this conversation about a shortened gun season.  Let us not even touch upon the fact that they have never been allowed in NYS and next year only allowed in gun season.  We are NO where near discussing them as any sort of alternative to gun hunting.  I have yet to hear a dedicated gun hunter say that they could ever be considered a good alternative.

Uh oh, there goes your comprehension skills again. 

Yeah right, maybe it's more like you don't have a clue to what you're talking about!! If you baffle enough people with BS, some are sure to believe you.  LOL

No, its a case of you dont get it or havent paid attention. I know exactly what it is Im talking about.

[WNYBuckHunter]

BTW, this thread was about shortening the season, not ARs, not less or more tags, not DMPs. Like Ive said, shortening the season would be a good start, but is not the only thing that should be done. I mentioned crossbows because of one reason, they would be the compromise that could allow the gun season to be shortened. Why do I think that? Well, if crossbows were made legal during all of bow season, then the gun guys that dont bow hunt already because they cant or wont take the time to properly practice shooting a vertical bow, have a weapon they can use without that much of a learning curve, they just need to get used to their range being cut way down and a few other things. I think that crossbows could (not would) make up for the loss in harvest numbers because the hunters that use them would have so much more time to hunt with them.

The problems that most have with an idea like this is that they cant seem to accept compromise, they want it their way or no way, whether the system is broken or not, just dont change it and upset the herd (Im not talking about the herd of deer either). The bottom line is, if there are any real improvements to hunting in NY, it has to be done by compromising, you cant just take something away without giving something in return, even if it would be the absolute best thing for the deer herd. Well, they could, this is NY we are talking about here afterall lol.

Oh, and steve, NY has not talked about cutting the gun season down, just like they havent allowed crossbows in bow season. Whats your point? The thread is about ideas, not current laws. Say it with me, comp re hen shun. Thats great, I knew you could....

[nycoyotehounds..BUB]

Forgot to say Bub

[WNYBuckHunter]

Forgot to say Bub

Nah, thats reserved just for you  ;D

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Hey Ny...I think you and I need to get together and send these two to their time out chairs...lol

and I really expected "bub" to be pulled out

[WNYBuckHunter]

Hey Ny...I think you and I need to get together and send these two to their time out chairs...lol

and I really expected "bub" to be pulled out

LMAO

[steve863]

Ahhhhh, and thats where the x-bow comes into play. 

Jee whiz, it seems like the x-bow is the solution to everything for you?  I could care less if they make the x-bows legal during bow season, gun season or any other season, but to think any gun hunter would be happy giving up a week or two of their gun season for a bloody x-bow is the silliest thing I ever heard!  Plus they would have to spend another $500-$1000 for the darned contraption just to hunt those weeks they lost from their gun season.  Just how would this possibly make any gun hunter happy???  Will NEVER happen in NYS!

You dont read or comprehend things very well all the time steve. I have never said it was the complete solution, but once again you cherry pick one comment and go off on your tangent.

BTW, I have never, ever said I dont like gun hunters. I started out gun hunting and only got into bow hunting a handful of years ago. I have never hunted with a x-bow and unless they change the seasons up similarly to how I have mentioned, it will be a long time before I do. The reasons why I say the gun season should be shortened is because I dont have my blinders on, and can see what would make for better quality hunting for everyone. Dont try and misconstrue that to mean bigger antlers either, there are plenty of bucks in NY with big racks now, and I have my share of encounters with them every year. Ill never understand people that dont want things to get better even when hunter numbers drop every year.

So since I don't comprehend things well, are you also trying to tell us that hunter numbers in NYS are dropping because of the poor hunting we have in NYS??  So a shorter season and possibly better hunting will bring hunters back while the long season and the lousy hunting we currently have is making hunters hang it up??  I myself think hunters would prefer to have a longer time frame to hunt over a shorter frame where they have NO choice but put all their hunting time in a short two week time frame.  Many who don't like gun hunting think it sounds like Vietnam now on opening day, I could imagine things being doubly worse if gun hunters knew they had less time available to them.  If gun hunters are to lose two weeks of their season, I would hope that bow hunters get to lose three at the same time.  What's fair is fair.  One group shouldn't get the shaft while the other doesn't.

Look steve, the whole key to shortening the gun season and improving the overall hunting is compromise. Thats what the crossbow represents and becomes, less range and a slight expense, but less pressure on the deer and a longer overall season for the gun hunter that picks up the crossbow.

As far as your comprehension skills go, I have said at least once (if not more times) in this thread that shortening the season or crossbows were not the only things that need be done to make a big improvement in the hunting in NY. And yes, I do believe that PART (dont misconstrue it as "all" or "the only") of the reason why the numbers are dropping off has to do with the lack of quality in the hunting in many parts of the state. Whether you feel the same way or not, many people dont want to sit and freeze after spending a bunch of money and see no deer because they are all in hiding after the intense pressure of having lead hurled at them for weeks on end. Not everyone has a lightly hunted chunk of land to go to like some of us do.

There you go again with the crossbows!  "Longer overall season for the gun hunter that picks up the crossbow".  The crossbow in my opinion has ZERO significance in this conversation about a shortened gun season.  Let us not even touch upon the fact that they have never been allowed in NYS and next year only allowed in gun season.  We are NO where near discussing them as any sort of alternative to gun hunting.  I have yet to hear a dedicated gun hunter say that they could ever be considered a good alternative.

Uh oh, there goes your comprehension skills again. 

Yeah right, maybe it's more like you don't have a clue to what you're talking about!! If you baffle enough people with BS, some are sure to believe you.  LOL

No, its a case of you dont get it or havent paid attention. I know exactly what it is Im talking about.

Yes, I have paid attention.  Your premise all along has been that a shorter gun season would bring better overall hunting to everyone.  And that gun hunters shouldn't feel that they would be sacrificing too much with a shorter season if they were told that they could continue hunting another few weeks with a crossbow instead.  The crossbow would be the bone you would throw out to them.  Whether you think you know exactly what your talking about is really a moot point here.  The DEC honestly has no reason to worry about better overall hunting when a good percentage of hunters DO get to kill deer each year.  They have little to worry about people abandoning hunting for the lack of deer when over 200,000 of them get shot by hunters each year in recent years.  Do you think it would make the state happy if there were enough deer in NYS where hunters could bag 400,000 per year?  Do you think this would make more people want to hunt?  The answer to both is NO.  The state wants less deer, and not more.  So the quality of your own hunting experience is of little importance to them.  Hunters are used as a population control tool.  Yes, to a degree the state does want to make hunters happy.  But NO one should think that making hunters happy will ever be MORE important to them than the job they want us to do, which is control the deer population. It's not like they want more deer in NYS just to keep hunters happy, when the reality is that they want less to keep everyone else in the state happy and safe. 

[nycoyotehounds..BUB]

THATS FUNNY

[steve863]

Say it with me, comp re hen shun. Thats great, I knew you could....

Exactly what's up with this crap??  Are you looking to get me to call you a nice juicy name so that you can use your moderating powers and ban me from this site??  Sure seems like you are looking for it.

[WNYBuckHunter]

THATS FUNNY

Who changed your name lol

[WNYBuckHunter]

Ahhhhh, and thats where the x-bow comes into play. 

Jee whiz, it seems like the x-bow is the solution to everything for you?  I could care less if they make the x-bows legal during bow season, gun season or any other season, but to think any gun hunter would be happy giving up a week or two of their gun season for a bloody x-bow is the silliest thing I ever heard!  Plus they would have to spend another $500-$1000 for the darned contraption just to hunt those weeks they lost from their gun season.  Just how would this possibly make any gun hunter happy???  Will NEVER happen in NYS!

You dont read or comprehend things very well all the time steve. I have never said it was the complete solution, but once again you cherry pick one comment and go off on your tangent.

BTW, I have never, ever said I dont like gun hunters. I started out gun hunting and only got into bow hunting a handful of years ago. I have never hunted with a x-bow and unless they change the seasons up similarly to how I have mentioned, it will be a long time before I do. The reasons why I say the gun season should be shortened is because I dont have my blinders on, and can see what would make for better quality hunting for everyone. Dont try and misconstrue that to mean bigger antlers either, there are plenty of bucks in NY with big racks now, and I have my share of encounters with them every year. Ill never understand people that dont want things to get better even when hunter numbers drop every year.

So since I don't comprehend things well, are you also trying to tell us that hunter numbers in NYS are dropping because of the poor hunting we have in NYS??  So a shorter season and possibly better hunting will bring hunters back while the long season and the lousy hunting we currently have is making hunters hang it up??  I myself think hunters would prefer to have a longer time frame to hunt over a shorter frame where they have NO choice but put all their hunting time in a short two week time frame.  Many who don't like gun hunting think it sounds like Vietnam now on opening day, I could imagine things being doubly worse if gun hunters knew they had less time available to them.  If gun hunters are to lose two weeks of their season, I would hope that bow hunters get to lose three at the same time.  What's fair is fair.  One group shouldn't get the shaft while the other doesn't.

Look steve, the whole key to shortening the gun season and improving the overall hunting is compromise. Thats what the crossbow represents and becomes, less range and a slight expense, but less pressure on the deer and a longer overall season for the gun hunter that picks up the crossbow.

As far as your comprehension skills go, I have said at least once (if not more times) in this thread that shortening the season or crossbows were not the only things that need be done to make a big improvement in the hunting in NY. And yes, I do believe that PART (dont misconstrue it as "all" or "the only") of the reason why the numbers are dropping off has to do with the lack of quality in the hunting in many parts of the state. Whether you feel the same way or not, many people dont want to sit and freeze after spending a bunch of money and see no deer because they are all in hiding after the intense pressure of having lead hurled at them for weeks on end. Not everyone has a lightly hunted chunk of land to go to like some of us do.

There you go again with the crossbows!  "Longer overall season for the gun hunter that picks up the crossbow".  The crossbow in my opinion has ZERO significance in this conversation about a shortened gun season.  Let us not even touch upon the fact that they have never been allowed in NYS and next year only allowed in gun season.  We are NO where near discussing them as any sort of alternative to gun hunting.  I have yet to hear a dedicated gun hunter say that they could ever be considered a good alternative.

Uh oh, there goes your comprehension skills again. 

Yeah right, maybe it's more like you don't have a clue to what you're talking about!! If you baffle enough people with BS, some are sure to believe you.  LOL

No, its a case of you dont get it or havent paid attention. I know exactly what it is Im talking about.

Yes, I have paid attention.  Your premise all along has been that a shorter gun season would bring better overall hunting to everyone.  And that gun hunters shouldn't feel that they would be sacrificing too much with a shorter season if they were told that they could continue hunting another few weeks with a crossbow instead.  The crossbow would be the bone you would throw out to them.  Whether you think you know exactly what your talking about is really a moot point here.  The DEC honestly has no reason to worry about better overall hunting when a good percentage of hunters DO get to kill deer each year.  They have little to worry about people abandoning hunting for the lack of deer when over 200,000 of them get shot by hunters each year in recent years.  Do you think it would make the state happy if there were enough deer in NYS where hunters could bag 400,000 per year?  Do you think this would make more people want to hunt?  The answer to both is NO.  The state wants less deer, and not more.  So the quality of your own hunting experience is of little importance to them.  Hunters are used as a population control tool.  Yes, to a degree the state does want to make hunters happy.  But NO one should think that making hunters happy will ever be MORE important to them than the job they want us to do, which is control the deer population. It's not like they want more deer in NYS just to keep hunters happy, when the reality is that they want less to keep everyone else in the state happy and safe.

First off, you act like Im not a gun hunter. You couldnt be more wrong. I love bowhunting, but my first and true love is gun hunting. I spend every single day that I can out in the field with my gun during firearms season, and I love it.

Secondly, I am in no way talking about creating a larger deer herd. I am talking about a less stressed deer herd, that doesnt become almost strictly noctournal in many areas for a month every year.

Third, the state is worried about declining hunter numbers, if you dont think that they are, you have your head in the sand or you are just nuts.

See, these three points are what Im talking about when I say you cant seem to comprehend what I am talking about.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Say it with me, comp re hen shun. Thats great, I knew you could....

Exactly what's up with this crap??  Are you looking to get me to call you a nice juicy name so that you can use your moderating powers and ban me from this site??  Sure seems like you are looking for it.

No, its called a sense of humor, you ought to think of getting one. 

BTW, I dont have the authority or desire to ban anyone from this board. Never have, never will. I dont know why you think Im out to get you or something, I have no ill feelings about you, I just think you are a closed minded individual in some respects. Dont go getting paranoid on us. 

[Doewhacker]

"Third, the state is worried about declining hunter numbers, if you dont think that they are, you have your head in the sand or you are just nuts."

Which is exactly why we don't have to worry about an idea like shortening gun season. Crossbows will not draw in new hunters nor will any other hairbrained idea like shortening a season.

[WNYBuckHunter]

"Third, the state is worried about declining hunter numbers, if you dont think that they are, you have your head in the sand or you are just nuts."

Which is exactly why we don't have to worry about an idea like shortening gun season. Crossbows will not draw in new hunters nor will any other hairbrained idea like shortening a season.

So your solution to declining hunter numbers (partly due to less than ideal hunting in NY) is to not look at options, ideas or anything else or just discount anything you dont want for yourself and just leave it broken?

Again, adding crossbows and shortening the gun season would be PART of what should be done, they wont solve the issues by themselves.

[nycoyotehounds..BUB]

Hey WNY...I did

[WNYBuckHunter]

Hey WNY...I did

HAHAHAHA I like it!  ;D

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Thats right PART of the solution and if you dont think if ny got to be known as a big buck state would not bring hunters in i think you are way wrong..

[steve863]

Say it with me, comp re hen shun. Thats great, I knew you could....

Exactly what's up with this crap??  Are you looking to get me to call you a nice juicy name so that you can use your moderating powers and ban me from this site??  Sure seems like you are looking for it.

No, its called a sense of humor, you ought to think of getting one. 

BTW, I dont have the authority or desire to ban anyone from this board. Never have, never will. I dont know why you think Im out to get you or something, I have no ill feelings about you, I just think you are a closed minded individual in some respects. Dont go getting paranoid on us. 

No, I'm definitely not paranoid and could care less if someone did ban me here.  Wouldn't lose a wink of sleep over it like some of you computer freaks would.  I WILL however call out know nothings like you when I am told that my comprehension is lacking.  I am obviously not the only one here who thinks your analysis of why we need a shorter season is completely flawed.  So maybe it's not my comprehension that is lacking here, but actually YOUR understanding of anything relating to hunting, the DEC, and deer management in NYS that is the real problem. 

[nyantler]

Thats right PART of the solution and if you dont think if ny got to be known as a big buck state would not bring hunters in i think you are way wrong..

In a way I agree with that.. nobody is knocking down NY's door to come hunting here.  Many states have more to offer and get far more non-resident revenue because of it. Could be just the thing to boost revenues in NY by making it more attractive to hunt bigger bucks here. Not sure that we have the available hunting land like other states, but maybe

[WNYBuckHunter]

Say it with me, comp re hen shun. Thats great, I knew you could....

Exactly what's up with this crap??  Are you looking to get me to call you a nice juicy name so that you can use your moderating powers and ban me from this site??  Sure seems like you are looking for it.

No, its called a sense of humor, you ought to think of getting one. 

BTW, I dont have the authority or desire to ban anyone from this board. Never have, never will. I dont know why you think Im out to get you or something, I have no ill feelings about you, I just think you are a closed minded individual in some respects. Dont go getting paranoid on us. 

No, I'm definitely not paranoid and could care less if someone did ban me here.  Wouldn't lose a wink of sleep over it like some of you computer freaks would.  I WILL however call out know nothings like you when I am told that my comprehension is lacking.  I am obviously not the only one here who thinks your analysis of why we need a shorter season is completely flawed.  So maybe it's not my comprehension that is lacking here, but actually YOUR understanding of anything relating to hunting, the DEC, and deer management in NYS that is the real problem.

So I guess those in charge of most other states' hunting regulations are a bunch of "know nothings", right? Just because I dont agree with what your opinion is, that means I know nothing?

You know steve, Id like to tell you where you can go, and what you can do with your piss ant insults, but Im a bigger man than to stoop to such juvenile levels. Well, most of the time anyway. 

[wztirem]

Thats right PART of the solution and if you dont think if ny got to be known as a big buck state would not bring hunters in i think you are way wrong..

In a way I agree with that.. nobody is knocking down NY's door to come hunting here.  Many states have more to offer and get far more non-resident revenue because of it. Could be just the thing to boost revenues in NY by making it more attractive to hunt bigger bucks here. Not sure that we have the available hunting land like other states, but maybe

Joe,

The flora in NY does not promote the growth of big bucks. NY is not an agricultural state. The soil for the most part is poor. The food plot craze and QDM rhetoric only works in limited situations.

[backstrapper]

Wouldn't lose a wink of sleep over it like some of you computer freaks would...

That would be much more convincing if you didn't almost have 600 posts ;D  just saying.

I don't agree with shortening the gun season for xbows or for any reason but I am in favor of allowing xbows all of bow and I am a bow hunter first and foremost!  I disagree with saying xbows are a slight expense.  For some maybe, but you might not have noticed, we are still in a 2.5 year long recession and for some folks $300-600 is a lot of money.  I'm 40, have broken my back twice, have arthritis in both elbows, shoulders, and wrists, and in 10-15 years would love to be able to still get out in early fall during bow.  I will only be able to in about 10 years if crossbows are legal.  My neighbor 43 has been hunting bow for 20 years can't now due to an accident and since he isn't a quad he doesn't qualify.  Percentage wise bow is a young mans sprots and I think it is BS that as the older hunters that have been bowhunting for decades get to a point where they can't hold draw they now can't hunt.  If allowing xbows during regular bow makes my woods a little noiser but allows physically disabled or older hunters, or some smaller women to hunt I say GrREAT, I'll just scout more and find more land to  hunt.  To not allow it is selfish and short sighted!!  Cut back the DMP's, keep the 3 point rule, add it to other areas and that will increase the herd.  Shorting the season will not since something like 80% (not positive on that number) are shot on opening weekend of gun anyway. 

I do know one thing for certain, if we all keep bickering and name calling  and acting like school girls rather then discussing and banding together like adult sportsmen we will lose the fight to keep our right to hunt.  Anti's love when we act like idiots and fight among ourselves!  There is power in numbers, so keep disagreeing, stop making blanket statements, look at the bigger pix, remember this is a big state and where and how you hunt might be totally different then other parts of the state, and discuss!  Don't bicker, name call, and lessen our power!

Just my thoughts on the subject

[backstrapper]

wztirem- not picking on you or starting a fight but your post is perfect example of big this state is.  In the southern zone there are a lot of farms and orchards that are surronded by big woods.  Perfect flora for big bucks! 

It's a big state and every area is different, that's why I agree with broading the AR but not state wide, like up in the ADK where there is 1 deer per mile.  The food sources up there will not permit for large herds.