Make deer drives illegal?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Culver.....to answer your earlier questions....if we bring in someone new we would put them on watch with someone in the group that is experience (not by themselves)...

The scary thing here is that this is not rocket science but I guess some lack common sense...we all should know NEVER to:

Shoot over the crest of a hill

Shoot into a drive

Shoot at "something" unless you are 100% sure of target and background

I mean really...a driver or the drive is going to be coming from one direction, wait until the deer get past you and are moving away from the drivers before you shoot...what the hell is so hard about that??

DING....DING....DING.... Give that man a prize!!!  We never shot at deer as drivers unless it was behind us. the watchers let them come out of the drives or into the bottom of a few ravines we use to set up on. When I went with a big group up North of Sacandaga ...25-35 guys..... drivers yelled. I am sure we sounded like quite a crew barking and such ...but everyone was able to stay in line and in the right direction. I was only able to hunt with those guys one season but they were some of the safest guys I have ever hunted with. If you had 12 guys in line walking to do a drive the lead guy was the ONLY guy chambered. You did not chamber your gun until you were dropped off. Those guys had it down....and they were the type that drove on opening day...but we never saw another hunter. We were in big woods.

[JPP]

yeah....lets make more laws. Just what we need, government doesn't control us enough, now we want them to regulate our hunting techniques too.

[bubba]

Maybe NY should just make hunting illegal.  If it saves one life it is worth it.  Come on.  Doing a drive safely is not rocket science. You set up safe shooting zones when you set up. Drivers come from one way, which i usually the way the deer coem from. Watchers are in a line. You don'y shoot toward the drivers or the other watchers.  Pretty simple.  I have said this before, but it needs to be said again.  We can only protect people from themselves just so much. If you think hunting is so dangerous, do not hunt.  We did drives regularly on state land. No one wore orange or any other "safe" color. No one got shot or even shot at.  We hunted together since 1982 and not even an incident where anyone felt uncomfortable.  They have also been very successful. You will neber get the perfect huntng set ups. 

[nyantler]

I tried that argument for AR's in the AR thread a few months ago. makes sense, but I was bombarded with "elitist" labels and accused of using safety as a way to twist ARs, but I'm pretty sure most 9year-old boys don't have 3pts on one side...

Isn't that a hoot.. that guys will argue that safety is somehow a twist. Instead of thinking it's a good arguement for AR.. even if you aren't an AR guy it still makes sense!! And yes, there is never an excuse for mistaking  a human for a deer! Nobody I know looks anything like the deer I've seen. Ok, a people with big ears, but still not like a deer

[bubba]

if you want to use that argument, you better eliminate dmp's then.  umm as I recall a dmp requires no antlers.  You cant fix stupid.  As a hunter ed instructor, I do not see how a lot of these idiots get a certificate.  I guarantee you they would not from me.

[coyoteman]

I agree with Culver, let's make treestand hunting illegal also. One possible solution would be to open  for the guys to shoot doe only on the last two days. That is how they used to do it in PA. This would make you have to identify your target each part of the season.

[Localqdm]

Calling guys idiots, dopes, clowns, unfit, etc etc etc isn't going to change anything.  My point is these tragedies happen all too often, and way more come CLOSE to happening that no one ever hears of.  So you can blame the problem on isolated retards or recognize the reality of human nature and handed down traditions for what they are, the pressure that is inherent in a drive and the required decision and skill of a crack shot.  Compound that with inexperience, and a bad lay of land, and problems result.  I've seen it over and over, way too often by different groups to call every one of them stupid idiots.

I dont' think making them illegal is the solution, but I do think the tradition needs to change and education is probably helping some.

[Doc]

First of all, as has already been stated, enforcement would be just about impossible to achieve. One thing we don't need is more laws on the books that nobody is willing or able to enforce.

I haven't participated in a drive in decades simply because I don't see hunting as a "team sport", but I still know people who get involved in drives, and I don't really have any problem with that. It is a very productive way of hunting.

Back when I did get involved with an occasional drive, we used to have a pile of rules that kept the activity safe. There is nothing that says that drives have to be unsafe.

Doc

[bubba]

The "idiots" I was referring to are the ones who do he shooting of things other than a well identified target and what is beyond it. Maybe we shoud just make huning illegal.  Again if you feel so uncomfortable hunting the way it is, stay home.  You are more likely to get hurt or killed driving a vehicle to your hunting spot.  Maybe we should make driving to a hunting area illegal. 

[Santamour123]

You can not blame this on a process.  It is like blaming the gun. Fact of the matter is. it is plain stupidity on the part of the hunter!!! End of story.

[nyantler]

The "idiot" thing has been going on since the beginning of hunting... there will always be poachers, hunters that shoot at movement, the guy that steals your deer, hunts on posted property, doesn't follow up on his shot... Unfortunately, it's just the human condition.. All we can do is lobby for the things that are good for deerhunting and for the hunting experience in general and hope for the best... and continue to do our part as responsible hunters that give a S#*t.

[Brushbuster]

I cant imagine any hunter that I have ever met that would shoot at simple movement or noise.

I cant imagine any hunter getting shot if they have the orange on.

Old fashioned deer drives with lots of noise (yes, banging pots and pans) makes it easy to know where the drivers are and its amazing how far ahead the deer will be.

Its a great technique for hunting deer and safe - especially if the posters are in climbing stands and shooting down.

[Mr VJP]

Life, is inherently dangerous.  Each person goes through each day with the risk of getting killed.  It's the brain that helps you survive by telling you what to do and not do.

Making anything illegal because some people get killed doing it, would not leave much for the living to do during the day. 

Freedom is all about living each day as you choose, without infringing on another person's rights.  If you fear deer drives, don't join one.  If you join one and get shot, the risk was yours, but the shooter should be held responsible.

[Localqdm]

I don't think they should be illegal either.  I already said some groups are good at it.  However I understand where someone can raise the question, because these are NOT isolated instances of bad judgement.  If you have never witnessed it, come visit the farms near me, where you can see dangerous set ups every year.  And I agree its the fault of the guy pulling the trigger.  Bad drives are done all the time just like drinking and driving.  A lot of the time no one gets hurt and no one knows, and the one doing it is encouraged to push the limits again.  Then someone gets killed.

Just saying I agree there is a real issue of safety that is usually found in drives vs other forms of hunting, and it is not as isolated as it is sometimes portrayed.

[bubba]

if it is not as islolated as portrayed, where are the huge numbers of incidents yearly where people get shot making deer drives? 

[Localqdm]

Like I said, I think bad drives are like drinking and driving.  The actual mortality stats are no where close to the # of people doing it.  And there are way more drivers on the road than drivers in the woods.  I've seen it, and I know if there are others here if they are honest have too.  Maybe you have never hunted with people like this, and that's good.

[bubba]

then again my question stands. why arent more peole killed aking deer drives then. Dumb luck only lasts just so long

[Brushbuster]

There are a few deaths every few years - accidents pure and simple but I cant recall hearing of anyone getting shot on a drive.  I would not be surprised if it has happened but I dont recall of ever hearing of one and I have done a fair amount of research on the subject.

[arrow nocker]

hahaha.

Just make em deer drive with bows and arrows.Indians did it for ever affectivly.

[Brushbuster]

Arrow,

That is done every year in Morris County NJ.  It does not take much to bump deer out of nooks and crannies and into areas where it is safe to shoot with bow.  That is the nature of suburban hunting these days.

[arrow nocker]

Sounds fun yet challenging.

UH OH;look out!here come all the xbow haters.

hahaha.just kidding.

[Brushbuster]

Actually my friends use compound bows and the trick is not to drive them too hard.  A lot of these drives are pushing back yards into small thick spots where they hesitate long enough to get a good shot.

[nyantler]

The deer drives are not unsafe, the deerhunters are....

[troutman]

Some drives with archery equipment...

[fasteddie]

That's a neat video . Thanks !