This is not going to go over well.

[First-light]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/28/africa/zimbabwe-lion-killed/index.html

[monkeyman2269]

Nope it will not

[Five Seasons]

social media is tearing this guy apart. trying to ruin his life. I am not going to back up his actions. Poaching is despicable. But there a lot of families fed by his practice and the amount of death threats are astonishing... like somehow violence is the answer to violence.

 

I do wish for him to be punished, but his family and practice had nothing to do with his actions. When you signed up for a job did you ask your boss if he or she might do something in the future that would get your business closed due to public outcry?

[Pygmy]

......Nice lion.....

[ants]

Think he'll leave the collar on when he mounts the head??

[growalot]

Why did it have to be an American!

[steve863]

I saw this article earlier.  Did you guys notice that the article not only condemns the hunter, but is also calling for an end to trophy hunting in Africa?  I just hope this doesn't start the ball rolling for a complete ban of hunting in Africa.  Just as with the confederate flag in this country and a number of other things of late, once the media gets a good hold of something, they won't let it go until they get what they want.  This may not end in a good way for hunting.

 

 

 

[jjb4900]

social media is tearing this guy apart. trying to ruin his life. I am not going to back up his actions. Poaching is despicable. But there a lot of families fed by his practice and the amount of death threats are astonishing... like somehow violence is the answer to violence.

 

I do wish for him to be punished, but his family and practice had nothing to do with his actions. When you signed up for a job did you ask your boss if he or she might do something in the future that would get your business closed due to public outcry?

ahhh, Social Media...........what a great invention.

[steve863]

Just realized that the article I read on CNN is different than what Burt posted a few hours ago.  The one I read calls for a ban while Burt's doesn't.  It seems like the story is growing feet already in only a few hours!  

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/29/africa/zimbabwe-cecil-the-lion-killed/index.html

[Mr VJP]

What I find interesting about this situation are the allegations being leveled against him.

 

Apparently, his guide set up outside the park, in an area where it is legal to shoot a lion.  This lion had almost wandered out of the park into legal hunting area before, which it could easily do.  It was being tracked constantly by the people who collared it.  It did leave the park and go into legal hunting area when this American Dentist shot it.  He claims he did not know it was a lion from the park and relied totally on his guide's expertise.

 

Did he break any laws?  If so, what laws?  A lot of people are getting bent out of shape about it, but they are making up a lot of derogatory, clearly false, claims about what actually happened, trying to destroy this guy's life with those claims.  Seems more like revenge from animal lovers than justice to me.

 

Personally, I see the attacks against this Dentist being more disgusting than his killing the lion.

 

[moog5050]

I don't know whether the kill was legal or not, but had the same questions as you VJP.  It seems that the lion had a collar on.  That alone would likely stop me from releasing an arrow though. 

[Mr VJP]

It may have been impossible to see the collar under the mane.  I don't see it in any of the photos of the lion that were published.

 

[moog5050]

It may have been impossible to see the collar under the mane.  I don't see it in any of the photos of the lion that were published.

 

 

Could be, but isn't it much easier just to tar and feather the guy based on some new reports.  Why spend the time to determine whether what he did was legal or not?  Yes - sarcasm.

 

Regardless, I suspect his $50k trophy will never hang on his wall.

[phade]

When you hire a guide, you are still liable for your actions, even if you unknowingly follow the guide and he breaks the law - as you do. We hear of this alot with deer outfitters.

 

The big pigeonhole here is that the government is saying the guide and the landholder did not have a lion tag allocation, meaning it doesn't matter if he shot Cecil or another lion, on or off the park. It means that the shooter, the guide, and the landholder are guilty of shooting a lion without a tag or whatever the legal term is. I think that is the leg they are standing on, and it sounds like the guide admitted a "mistake."

 

Now, the tough part is that this hunter is getting the short end of the stick. It is quite possible he did all of the research and hired a guide he felt legal, etc. But at the end of the day, if he didn't have a tag, even if unaware, he's probably going to pay the piper. 

 

Here's the caveat to all of this, some information, and I am unsure of the source, has noted that this dentist has been involved in a bear-related poaching incident in Wisconsin where the bear was reported killed in a different area than the tag indicated/was vaild. I am not sure if he pled guilty or if that component really doesn't have legs and is just creative writing. But, that info is out there. If there is truth to him being involved in it and proven/guilty, it doesn't set a good track record in my mind as to whether he knew he was poaching a lion or didn't have a tag.

Edited July 29, 2015 by phade

[monkeyman2269]

But they attacked it with a bow and arrow and chopped it's head off

[jjb4900]

But they attacked it with a bow and arrow and chopped it's head off

actually it looks like he crippled it with an arrow and 40 hours later they killed it with a gun...........but, the whole story stinks, from the hunt itself to the guy being crucified and attacked by the antis.

[Mr VJP]

This is another case of the anti-hunting crowd grabbing any story about hunting and running with it.  The goal is to change the perception of ALL hunting in the eyes of the public.  It's hate mongering and persecution.  I'll bet they hope some animal loving nut case kills the Dentist.  

 

The anti's call it passion and dedication to their cause.  I call it illegal incitement and radical extremism.

 

What all hunter's should come away from this story thinking is, "There, but for the grace of God, go I."  

 

Someday you may find yourself in the cross hairs of animal rights extremists, even if you didn't do anything wrong.

[monkeyman2269]

I was kidding but that's what one of the article said. At least they found it could you imagine if the park found it with a arrow hole in it

[Mr VJP]

I wonder if this story being blown out of proportion by the mass media is designed to distract the public from the current Planned Parenthood fiasco.

 

Seems every time a darling of the Left comes under attack, an incendiary counter point will suddenly come out of nowhere.

 

The Left supports abortion and the Right supports hunting.  Seems like a case of, "Oh yeah? Take that!"

[Five Seasons]

I saw this article earlier.  Did you guys notice that the article not only condemns the hunter, but is also calling for an end to trophy hunting in Africa?  I just hope this doesn't start the ball rolling for a complete ban of hunting in Africa.  Just as with the confederate flag in this country and a number of other things of late, once the media gets a good hold of something, they won't let it go until they get what they want.  This may not end in a good way for hunting.

 

it wont happen. too much money behind LEGAL trophy hunting. The poor countries over there don't just cave to liberal flavor of the month stories. It will continue and if asshats like this weren't poaching it wouldn't even be on anyone other than peta's radar.

[Five Seasons]

This is another case of the anti-hunting crowd grabbing any story about hunting and running with it.  The goal is to change the perception of ALL hunting in the eyes of the public.  It's hate mongering and persecution.  I'll bet they hope some animal loving nut case kills the Dentist.  

 

The anti's call it passion and dedication to their cause.  I call it illegal incitement and radical extremism.

 

What all hunter's should come away from this story thinking is, "There, but for the grace of God, go I."  

 

Someday you may find yourself in the cross hairs of animal rights extremists, even if you didn't do anything wrong.

 

you don't have to defend everything. The is wrong in this world. Hunters can be wrong. People will poach. Left media or not, the guy did it, and you have to assume that if the government has a warrant out for his arrest. Guys like this give us all a bad name. This is why people don't like unions. They'll defend even the bad employee. I say good riddance to him for poaching.

[BizCT]

Think he'll leave the collar on when he mounts the head??

If I shot a buck in PA with a collar on, I would leave it on the mount I think

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[growalot]

Oh boy! let me just step right in it here....I remember a couple of years ago when a certain famous hunter with a guide got caught doing something illegal...and holy  Cow guys here and on a half dozen other hunting sites all but crucified him...I really find the reactions funny...guess it pays to be a not so famous guy than a famous one when getting caught in something.

Edited July 29, 2015 by growalot

[Mr VJP]

you don't have to defend everything. The is wrong in this world. Hunters can be wrong. People will poach. Left media or not, the guy did it, and you have to assume that if the government has a warrant out for his arrest. Guys like this give us all a bad name. This is why people don't like unions. They'll defend even the bad employee. I say good riddance to him for poaching.

 

I'm not defending him, I'm being an American and assuming he's innocent until proven guilty.  I don't see the media, the anti-hunting folks, or you doing that.

 

The government in the African country he shot the lion in does NOT have an arrest warrant issued for him.  No African country has an arrest warrant out for him.  They may want his testimony and he's offered to cooperate.  Nobody from Africa has contacted him as of this date.

 

A similar situation exists near Yellowstone, where huge Elk often leave the park and are killed by hunters.  How long before an Elk, that's been given a name by anti's and fitted with a collar, causes the same issue here?  A few years ago a hunter legally killed a huge Black Bear in PA, that people had become familiar with and named.  They went after him like he murdered a neighborhood child!  If hunters start to fear having their lives ruined for taking a trophy animal, hunting will become a past time of such regulation and scrutiny, very few will be able to participate, if they can't afford a guide and a lawyer.

 

Guys like this are currently the target of anti-hunting organizations world wide.  I wouldn't be surprised if nobody is found guilty of any crime, in any of this.  But I believe if no crime was committed, the anti-hunting groups should be sued for libel and slander and made to pay millions.

[Mr VJP]

Oh boy! let me just step right in it here....I remember a couple of years ago when a certain famous hunter with a guide got caught doing something illegal...and holy  Cow guys here and on a half dozen other hunting sight all but crucified him...I really find the reactions funny...guess it pays to be a not so famous guy than a famous one when getting caught in something.

 

And that guy was also relying on the "expertise" of his guide.

 

A short while back, there was a thread about using guides for hunting and I said I don't use them.  This is just another reason why I don't think it's a good idea.