With all the negative public opinion on "Trophy Hunting"...

[Fletch]

So with all the negative public opinions on trophy hunting due to recent news blasts, Cecil etc....

 

https://gma.yahoo.com/beyond-cecil-lion-trophy-hunting-industry-africa-explained-183200620--abc-news-pets.html

 

My question is - Do you think with all the AR talk and trophy deer rules being pushed in this state, and on this site, are we the start of our own demise? Many studies over the past decades show 10%-15% of people hunt and 10%-15% are antis that leaves 70%-80% in the middle. Of these middle the majority have supported sustenance hunting, hunting only species you eat and use. As you make deer hunting into you can only shoot trophies and blackballing the guy/girl who is happy shooting a forkhorn to feed his/her family. What is this doing to the middles perception of us?

 

Real discussion and polite replies only. I do not want a piss match just good discussion. My and my children's future hunting rights may very well depend on our actions in the next 5-10 years.

 

 

[steve863]

Great question!  I think most people who are not hunters can accept people hunting to put meat on the table, but when "trophy hunting" is brought up, you start losing them real fast.

 

 

 

[Mr VJP]

I do not think the "middles" will object to antler restrictions, since they probably see it as a good thing that restricts the deer you can take to the more mature bucks, leaving the younger bucks to grow older.

 

I think they agree with just about any restriction on animals being taken while hunting.  I suspect more of the "middles" object to shooting does.

 

I think hunting's future is in for a very big fight that will eventually see it more heavily regulated, expensive and restricted.  The future generations are going to have to put up with a lot if they want to hunt at all.  That will probably kill a lot of interest and lower the numbers of hunters drastically.  Perhaps that is the whole plan.

 

[growalot]

There it is...how to stop all this AR state wide BS...get the word out that AR's which are a precursor to trophy hunting are being pushed heavily in NYS by the Demoratic Gov. Andrew Cuomo and his Democratic flunkies...political fall out...you guys have face book and Twitter accounts. Now's your chance...wink wink

[jjb4900]

trophy hunting makes people do questionable things.........heck, I may just screw an extra point on all the whopper 4pts I've been seeing in the Catskills since they started the antler restrictions 3 years ago just to tag my trophy.

Edited July 31, 2015 by jjb4900

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Trophy hunter and whitetails do not sit in the same statement.  Trophy whitetail hunters still eat the venison they kill. They just like a little more bling on top of their head. Deer hunting is going to go one of two ways i believe.  If disease comes into play very few will hunt wild untested deer or if no disease it will turn into trophy hunting with very little land to hunt unless you get your checkbook out. Good,bad or ugly i believe big changes will be headed our way in the next few years.

 

Now to kill a lion as a trophy or a bobcat, Mt Lion to mount..Not so much!

[the blur]

I'm against Elephant hunting, Lion Hunting, Rhino hunting, etc.   These animals are limited in #'s.   And most guys are looking for the trophy, rather than dinner.

 

I was against Zebra hunting too.  Now I think I changed my mind.  They seem plenty full in herds, and 1 missing won't upset their hierarchy.   Giraffes, I have no opinion on yet.

[DirtTime]

Not sure that link was the best was to advocate this discussion, they are mainly talking about Africa in that article. But, there is thing that does ring through. Money ( will get to that in a minute )!

 

From being on this site, and reading all the arguments about trophy vs kill the deer you have tags for, I think it's about a 50/50 split. That's just on here. Not every hunter in NY comes here though. The new AR's and does only regs, maybe they are trying to get hunters to leave the small deer be.

Maybe they are setting up to make us have to hunt certain areas. If that is the case, no i do not agree with it.

I put hunting hand in hand with owning firearms. So if they start stepping to hard on our seasons, then we need to start stepping back the same as we do to protect the 2nd Amendment!

 

Now to the money thing.

If NY is trying to go in a direction where they want to put up fences and say we have to hunt there and charge us to hunt those areas, or hunt a licensed service that has high fence, I think they will fail. Some hunters make enough money to just get by, they hunt for food and don't care about horns. They will not be able to afford paying the additional costs. I have no 'factual' data for this, but I don't feel I am far off. Most people with money don't think about the hunters who don't have money. Also, let's face it, NY DEC doesn't care much about the hunter just trying to get meat in the freezer.

 

I feel it should be our decision ( lets never forget though, hunting is not a right, it's like driving, it's a privilege, not a right ) to hunt for a trophy buck, or shoot a doe. I don't care if you hunt for the biggest rack or to fill all tags because you want to or have to. But I want us to retain the freedom to make that choice on our own.

 

Spoke my mind, kept it civil, but I already know, let the lashing begin.

 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Not sure that link was the best was to advocate this discussion, they are mainly talking about Africa in that article. But, there is thing that does ring through. Money ( will get to that in a minute )!

 

From being on this site, and reading all the arguments about trophy vs kill the deer you have tags for, I think it's about a 50/50 split. That's just on here. Not every hunter in NY comes here though. The new AR's and does only regs, maybe they are trying to get hunters to leave the small deer be.

Maybe they are setting up to make us have to hunt certain areas. If that is the case, no i do not agree with it.

I put hunting hand in hand with owning firearms. So if they start stepping to hard on our seasons, then we need to start stepping back the same as we do to protect the 2nd Amendment!

 

Now to the money thing.

If NY is trying to go in a direction where they want to put up fences and say we have to hunt there and charge us to hunt those areas, or hunt a licensed service that has high fence, I think they will fail. Some hunters make enough money to just get by, they hunt for food and don't care about horns. They will not be able to afford paying the additional costs. I have no 'factual' data for this, but I don't feel I am far off. Most people with money don't think about the hunters who don't have money. Also, let's face it, NY DEC doesn't care much about the hunter just trying to get meat in the freezer.

 

I feel it should be our decision ( lets never forget though, hunting is not a right, it's like driving, it's a privilege, not a right ) to hunt for a trophy buck, or shoot a doe. I don't care if you hunt for the biggest rack or to fill all tags because you want to or have to. But I want us to retain the freedom to make that choice on our own.

 

Spoke my mind, kept it civil, but I already know, let the lashing begin.

Nobody will make anybody hunt where they dont want to hunt. If trophy deer abound then hunting land will be about impossible to find. you will have to buy land or be involved in a high dollar lease. High fence will still be very popular with bigger deer at the same amount of money. If disease takes over then high fence and their tested deer will be balls in with the public because they will know they are hunting on a tested ranch.  Could get interesting!

[Oalagunpe]

on-line viagra, compare costs of medical procedures

[Doc]

trophy hunting makes people do questionable things.........heck, I may just screw an extra point on all the whopper 4pts I've been seeing in the Catskills since they started the antler restrictions 3 years ago just to tag my trophy.

Great opportunity for a creative entrepreneur. A new product for the hunting market .....ADD-A-POINT. A deer antler point with a lag-screw point on it.

 

In a bind? Deer down that isn't quite up to legal requirements? Buy Add-A-Point for only $19.95 and convert that deer to one you can be proud of. Never go afield without it!

[Doc]

We really do know how this is all going to turn out. We will ride all this out for as long as possible as the noose of public opinion tightens around hunting and we continue to lose participants. Some like myself will make it to the end of our natural lives, but other younger hunters will tire of the increasing limits, regulations, and complex restrictions thrown on our backs by ourselves and the growing intolerance of the public.

 

Trophyism? That's not even a blip on the radar of public opinion. It is only one more of the many overwhelming emotional  arguments that the ever growing and heavily financed anti-hunting organizations are pedaling. Eventually what we call hunting will become the activity of only the most wealthy among us as public repudiation and over-regulation strangles the rest of us. The trophy instincts will actually be the last to die as that is the only motivation that will sustain the obscene amounts of money and the tolerance of irritating over-regulation that it will take to participate.

 

Gloomy outlook? .... you bet. But I want somebody else to explain a logical more positive outlook for us. I am looking for a more positive scenario, but I'll be damned if I can see one.

[mike rossi]

 

 

Trophyism? That's not even a blip on the radar of public opinion. It is only one more of the many overwhelming emotional  arguments that the ever growing and heavily financed anti-hunting organizations are pedaling. 

 

I would question that because numerous public opinion surveys have pointed that the majority of the general public accepts hunting when wild game is eaten and disapproves of trophy hunting.

 

Now, if those surveyed have been influenced by anti-hunting campaigns is a valid question, but not answered, at least to my knowledge. 

 

Although taxidermy and eating wild game is not necessarily mutually exclusive, hunters themselves have generated skepticism. There are hunters on THIS forum who do not believe other hunters enjoy eating waterfowl and woodcock.... Now, that is hunters ( or those who claim they are hunters), so how might that extend to others?

 

And of course, there are indeed hunters who do not eat wild game. Some of them don't even donate it or give it away to people they know. Some are open about that as well. That adds fodder to anti hunters and sways the opinion of non hunters.

 

Then there are animals that virtually nobody eats - coyotes, foxes, wolves, bobcats. Antis will cite those activities to bolster their premise hunters do not eat wild game. Of course, those animals are sometimes hunted or trapped for pelts, which is not considered wanton waste, but nevertheless harvesting for pelts is not popular with much of the public.   

[Doc]

I would question that because numerous public opinion surveys have pointed that the majority of the general public accepts hunting when wild game is eaten and disapproves of trophy hunting.........

Yes, as I said, trophyism is just one item in a long list of emotional items that the antis use to beat us over the head with. If you want to know the most effective tool in the Anti-hunting arsenal, I would think it is hunting imagery. It is a powerful weapon to stir emotions to their max.

 

It is something that we should use more frequently. We argue logic, encyclopedic stats, and mind-numbing facts and figures until whoever we are talking to begins to stare off into space in a semi-conscious, coma-like condition. I wonder what would happen if somebody dragged out that video that we had here recently of the starving doe that could hardly hold it's head up and was obviously in excruciating pain. Or how about a fox that has disgusting matter crusting over its eyes. Or maybe a raccoon staggering around with rabies or diphtheria. Perhaps old pictures of that deer yard over at Honeoye where a field was littered with mounds of snow-covered dead deer, or the starving deer barely standing with that blank stare that won't even move out of the road. Or how about the good old video of the moose that is being torn to shreds by wolves piece by piece. And on and on. These are all very emotional and riveting images that show that there is no such thing as a critter simply dying of old age, peacefully in its bed, in the wild. It puts the fate of wild critters a bit more into focus and shows that the lucky ones are those harvested during hunting season. Want to shut an anti up? ..... just pack your cell-phone full of those images to show them the alternative to hunting. Never mind the facts and figures and stats and studies. They just tune out with those things. Use their own tactics against them. Work their emotions for a change.

 

[mike rossi]

Exactly Doc, people do not respond to logic, they respond to emotion. Its a tight bind. Hunters are just as emotional as antis....

[Fletch]

Yes, as I said, trophyism is just one item in a long list of emotional items that the antis use to beat us over the head with. If you want to know the most effective tool in the Anti-hunting arsenal, I would think it is hunting imagery. It is a powerful weapon to stir emotions to their max.

 

It is something that we should use more frequently. We argue logic, encyclopedic stats, and mind-numbing facts and figures until whoever we are talking to begins to stare off into space in a semi-conscious, coma-like condition. I wonder what would happen if somebody dragged out that video that we had here recently of the starving doe that could hardly hold it's head up and was obviously in excruciating pain. Or how about a fox that has disgusting matter crusting over its eyes. Or maybe a raccoon staggering around with rabies or diphtheria. Perhaps old pictures of that deer yard over at Honeoye where a field was littered with mounds of snow-covered dead deer, or the starving deer barely standing with that blank stare that won't even move out of the road. Or how about the good old video of the moose that is being torn to shreds by wolves piece by piece. And on and on. These are all very emotional and riveting images that show that there is no such thing as a critter simply dying of old age, peacefully in its bed, in the wild. It puts the fate of wild critters a bit more into focus and shows that the lucky ones are those harvested during hunting season. Want to shut an anti up? ..... just pack your cell-phone full of those images to show them the alternative to hunting. Never mind the facts and figures and stats and studies. They just tune out with those things. Use their own tactics against them. Work their emotions for a change.

 

 

I like that idea Doc.

 

Lots of good comments. At times I think we are our own worse enemy. I mean that we lack in ways to promote ourselves unified as a group.

 

We find ourselves attacked in this politically correct climate where LOUD small interest groups get the media. And the media in this country is not in any means a non biased news source. The media is more like a reality show these days. Sensationalize and sell be damned the facts.

 

We get compared to stuff like the Cecil shooting not by people that are close to us and understand but by a lot of the general public who are not in touch. They look at this and see hunter and us and see hunter. I don't want to be represented by that.

[The_Field_Ager]

No outrage from liberals concerning the Daily slighter of elephants by Jihadists trying to fun their terror operations:

 

 

A growing number of terrorist groups in Africa are turning to the illegal trade of elephant tusks to finance their operations, cashing in on a massive demand for ivory spurred by a burgeoning, wealthier middle class in Asia.

Al Qaeda-affiliated al-Shabab in Somalia, Joseph Kony’s Lord's Resistance Army in central Africa and Boko Haram in Nigeria are among the militants making money from trafficking ivory tusks from slaughtered elephants to pay their fighters and buy arms and ammunition.

 

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/nov/13/terrorists-slaughter-african-elephants-use-ivory-t/?page=all