True Hunters...

[noodle one]

If some people replying to this post think that native American and pioneers of old where true hunters, they need to rethink their thinking. If we hunted like the Indians and pioneers, we would all be outlaws. If you read the history books on how the Indians and pioneers hunted you would see that they did everything and anything to take deer, even jacklighting. They would paddle the river and lakes with a fire in the bow of their dugouts useing big flat stones to reflect the light as the deer came down to drink. They also used snares more than they did their bows. OUTLAWS YES, TRUE HUNTERS NO.

[Doc]

If some people replying to this post think that native American and pioneers of old where true hunters, they need to rethink their thinking. If we hunted like the Indians and pioneers, we would all be outlaws. If you read the history books on how the Indians and pioneers hunted you would see that they did everything and anything to take deer, even jacklighting. They would paddle the river and lakes with a fire in the bow of their dugouts useing big flat stones to reflect the light as the deer came down to drink. They also used snares more than they did their bows. OUTLAWS YES, TRUE HUNTERS NO.

No, they weren't outlaws. There were no laws concerning hunting methods. They simply used whatever methods that were used at the time to prevent one particular concern that today's hunters don't have ....... hunger. Their very existance depended on their abilities as hunters. In their own context of the day, they absolutely were true hunters and a lot better at their hunting than we ever will be given the limitations of their weapons. In terms of their understanding of the prey and the habitat that they lived in, they were a whole lot more in tune with all things wild than any of us will ever be. Yes I would say that they were indeed the epitome of true hunters in any sense of the definition. Maybe today we have the luxury of not approving of their methods but then we aren't in the same circumstances as they were. And that all doesn't mean that they didn't know their craft or were breaking any rules or regulations of their time. I wonder how many of today's hunters could actually live off the land as they did? I sure would hate to feed our family with what I got this year  ;D .

[bubba]

not only that, they were working pretty much daylight to dark 7 days a week farming and providing.  When were they supposed to get meat for their families?  They didnt have the luxury of having two days a week off to go play in the woods as we do, or a vacation to go for a week.  If we had half their ethics and hunting skills, we would be lucky.

[Dinsdale]

and the average life span was about 30-35 years.

Want a good read find Nathaniel Philbrick's "Mayflower"; good few chapters on Indiginous life styles, puts some of the romantic notions in a better context.

I guess on the woods deer around home the "alone" thing I can grasp; But I'm sure glad I'm not hung up on it for a bunch of hunts I have done and plan too. Sure starts to limit the possibilities. :

[noodle one]

Next you are going to say that the Indians were the first conservationist. Indian were opportunist as hunters and that it. They would move from place to place and killing every thing they could and  then move on. If they found one deer they would kill it or if they found ten deer they would try to kill all ten. Yes if I lived at that time ,I would have done the same thing.  Indians were not true hunters ,they were opportunist who did what they had to so they could survive. If you want to learn more, look it up in the history books.

  Nowadays if you took game like an Indian, you be arrested, imprisoned, or fines if you used some of his techiques. the Indian hunter was't a sportsman. Though he enjoyed hunting, he took game in the easiest way whenever possible because he hunted to eat and to obtain hides and furs. They also would bait deer.

  A good book to read (Modern  Hunting with Indian Secrets). Check it out and read it and them tell if you still think Indians were true hunters.

[G-Man]

Lets see an indian bow was able to kill a deer at about 15 yrds max,they didn't have scent control, gps,modern Camo or any other modern tech yet they were able to get close enough to their game to kill it.Ever kill a turkey with a bow without using camo and specialized broadhead Or the organised huge drives to herd animals towards water of a cliff allowing for easy dispatching. I would put them against any of the true hunters out there, who could make their own bow, points, knives,and use every bit of the animal today?? yeah we don't have to but we lack the nessary skills for most of us to even attempt it! Remember Pope and Young had to learn how to shoot and hunt effectivly from an indian!! Yes they hunted for food, not opportunists (they would tak emultiple game if it presented itself ) but they were hunters highly skilled first and for most!!

[fasteddie]

Uhhhhhhh , I think most of the Indians used Rage II broadheads !  : ... : ... :

[nyantler]

If some people replying to this post think that native American and pioneers of old where true hunters, they need to rethink their thinking. If we hunted like the Indians and pioneers, we would all be outlaws. If you read the history books on how the Indians and pioneers hunted you would see that they did everything and anything to take deer, even jacklighting. They would paddle the river and lakes with a fire in the bow of their dugouts useing big flat stones to reflect the light as the deer came down to drink. They also used snares more than they did their bows. OUTLAWS YES, TRUE HUNTERS NO.

But they were still HUNTING under their laws... and they did it all with lesser equipment than we have today.

[nyantler]

I know I will take some flack for this one.. but I have never thought sitting in a treestand was hunting... I have always thought of it as waiting. I'm not saying- guys shouldn't sit in treestands and shoot deer.. it's just my OWN opinion

I would have to say if I put in my time scouting and patterning deer, and I put a stand up to WAIT, I have put in my hunting time before I put the stand up.

That might be true for those that actually do any true scouting and almost nobody actually pattern deer... which there are some probably like yourself Bubba that might, but I would bet there are more hunters that just put their stands in the same place as last year or still have the stand up from last year ..that just grab their stuff out of the closet and head out to wait each year. That would be most of the hunters that argue they don't have much time to hunt.. meaning they don't have much time to scout either. Like I said.. the treestand thing is just how I feel about treestands as it pertains to me and what I think is hunting... But I guess hunting means something a little different to everyone.

I bet even some hardcore bowhunters don't think much of gun hunters as true hunters...

[fasteddie]

I am one of the lazy guys . I leave stands up , do some scouting and add new stands . You never know when one of the older stands might pay off as the deer change their travel patterns when the season starts up .

It really kills me to set up the trail cam , get some pics , place a new stand , hunt from it and watch deer travel past one of my older stands ! http://www.downsouthhuntingforums.com/images/smiles/pissed.gif[/img]...http://www.downsouthhuntingforums.com/images/smiles/pissed.gif[/img]...http://www.downsouthhuntingforums.com/images/smiles/pissed.gif[/img]

[bubba]

I know I will take some flack for this one.. but I have never thought sitting in a treestand was hunting... I have always thought of it as waiting. I'm not saying- guys shouldn't sit in treestands and shoot deer.. it's just my OWN opinion

I would have to say if I put in my time scouting and patterning deer, and I put a stand up to WAIT, I have put in my hunting time before I put the stand up.

That might be true for those that actually do any true scouting and almost nobody actually pattern deer... which there are some probably like yourself Bubba that might, but I would bet there are more hunters that just put their stands in the same place as last year or still have the stand up from last year ..that just grab their stuff out of the closet and head out to wait each year. That would be most of the hunters that argue they don't have much time to hunt.. meaning they don't have much time to scout either. Like I said.. the treestand thing is just how I feel about treestands as it pertains to me and what I think is hunting... But I guess hunting means something a little different to everyone.

I bet even some hardcore bowhunters don't think much of gun hunters as true hunters...

I am sure you are right about what others think about other hunters.  If you dont do it like me, you arent doing it right.  Bottom line is, if they enjoy what they do, and by their standards, they are successful, and they obey the laws, it is nobody's business.  And you will find as you get older your ideas of a true hunter will change.  If they dont, you arent a true hunter.  And if I hunt the same property year after year, it seems I do not have to put in as much time to pattern them, as their patterns seem pretty much the same.  Yeah if I see a big boy, I pay more attention and set up for him.  But rather I sit in a trestand, ground blind or just sit on the ground, I am still waiting.  Until a more effective way comes along, I will continue to. I shot my buck this fall standing on the ground leaning agaisnt a tree. No scent cover, just a belat can. I had to wait all of 35 minutes for him to show up.  I guess using lure scents, calls and cover scents does not make one a true hunter to some also. No matter what one does to hunt, someone else is going to think it is not going to be the right way. 

[Doc]

I don't think there is anything wrong with having personal preferences and beliefs about what is defined in your own mind as "true hunting". Sure enough, I have standards and acceptable practices that are considerably more limiting than just what the law will allow. I'll bet all of us do. There are definitely some activities that travel under the definition of hunting, that I will never do. I would be surprised if that wasn't the case with all members here to one extent or another.

[erussell]

I know I will take some flack for this one.. but I have never thought sitting in a treestand was hunting... I have always thought of it as waiting. I'm not saying- guys shouldn't sit in treestands and shoot deer.. it's just my OWN opinion

Ive always thought tree stand hunting was the hardest way to hunt. You have to put up all those stands ahead of time, then sit in boredom for hours on end as still as a leaf only to have deer pass by out of range. Then you have to make a decision whether or not to move said stand. If you move it you will watch them walk under where your stand use to be out of range. And if you don't move, then an even bigger buck will be standing under that tree you were thinking about placing that stand in. And then comes the worst scenario not seeing anything and dealing with the head games of whether or not you put the stand in the wrong place. Unless your land is silly with deer then it really doesnt matter how you hunt its all easy. 

[nyantler]

The sit in boredom part is what hate...although I will occasionally jump into a stand to relax and eat my lunch and enjoy a beatiful fall or winter day for a few minutes.

[Doc]

Actually, my version of still-hunting is something that would take you quite a while of watching to figure out whether I am still-hunting or stand hunting. I think the best description of it is a very, very slow moving stand hunt ..... lol. Boredom? ..... I have never experienced that with either method. Impatience maybe, but never boredom.

Doc

[nyantler]

I think my version of still hunting is a little different Doc.