I'm changing my stance on XBOWS

[Buckmaster7600]

I used to hate the ideas of XBOWS being allowed during archery seasons. After the amount of deer that I have hear of being wounded lately both on this sight and among friends with verticle bows. I feel that XBOWS could have changed this. It takes little to no practise to kill an animal with one. I think we as outdoorsman we owe it to the animal we are trying to kill to utilize the most efficient method available. I'm sure some will disagree as I would have a few months ago. But it is hard to argue that to become proficient with a verticle bow it takes shooting thousands of arrows annually, and some are not willing or able to do that. Now I know some will argue that mistakes will happen and I totally agree but I also know that the archers who shoot year round and shoot thousands of arrows a year are far less likely to wound an animal.

[CFHunter]

I used to hate the ideas of XBOWS being allowed during archery seasons. After the amount of deer that I have hear of being wounded lately both on this sight and among friends with verticle bows. I feel that XBOWS could have changed this. It takes little to no practise to kill an animal with one. I think we as outdoorsman we owe it to the animal we are trying to kill to utilize the most efficient method available. I'm sure some will disagree as I would have a few months ago. But it is hard to argue that to become proficient with a verticle bow it takes shooting thousands of arrows annually, and some are not willing or able to do that. Now I know some will argue that mistakes will happen and I totally agree but I also know that the archers who shoot year round and shoot thousands of arrows a year are far less likely to wound an animal.

 

I totally agree with you, I love my vertical bow and shoot year round. But, I have seen what it has done in other states allowing crossbows. It gets more people in the sport and allows younger individuals the opportunity to hunt outside the gun season. I bought a crossbow this year and plan on hunting with it starting this Saturday, but I am sure after I am able to take a deer with it, I will put in storage because I love hunting with the vertical bow. I just want to take a deer with every legal implement in my area. 

 

As for the wounding and losing deer, I suspect it is more the lack of training and mentors that a lot of the new hunters have. I have been seeing a lot of "urban/hipsters" take up hunting because eating what you have raised/killed is cool now for some. While a large number take it very serious and learn as much as they can, a lot also just go thru the motion of sitting in the classes and buy the equipment needed and just go out into the woods. I think one possible solution to this would be mandatory mentorship to all new hunters. Say they need to hunt under a seasoned hunter for two years before being allowed to hunt alone, no matter what age they are.

[growalot]

listen I was against them...for the reason that the DEC yet again botched the whole thing up...Wow was that a diplomatic statement!..any whoo not to put up or shut up ...sorta speak I did pick one up and shouldered it....first time ever I have picked up a scoped weapon and it was ....simply put perfect...I bought it on the spot...that was an expensive card reader I went in for...lol thank God for gander points.... near free.... but I digress....

I still say it should have a FULL ARCHERY course to be allowed in bow season...sorry but there is just more to bow hunting than an accurate shot..if the new stuff they have stuck in the gun course doesn't cover archery hunting.. than no ...I do not see how they have to have 2 days for archery and 2 days for gun yet x-bow is just a side note to the gun course...

ALL THAT SAID I COULD BE WRONG...it's been a long time since I took my two courses and sat with my kids through their 2 courses. How are they cvering xbow in that gun course??

[Buckmaster7600]

listen I was against them...for the reason that the DEC yet again botched the whole thing up...Wow was that a diplomatic statement!..any whoo not to put up or shut up ...sorta speak I did pick one up and shouldered it....first time ever I have picked up a scoped weapon and it was ....simply put perfect...I bought it on the spot...that was an expensive card reader I went in for...lol thank God for gander points.... near free.... but I digress....

I still say it should have a FULL ARCHERY course to be allowed in bow season...sorry but there is just more to bow hunting than an accurate shot..if the new stuff they have stuck in the gun course doesn't cover archery hunting.. than no ...I do not see how they have to have 2 days for archery and 2 days for gun yet x-bow is just a side note to the gun course...

ALL THAT SAID I COULD BE WRONG...it's been a long time since I took my two courses and sat with my kids through their 2 courses. How are they cvering xbow in that gun course??

I agree that an accurate shot is only part of the battle but it's a BIG part, I don't know how they are including them in the course's. Why not make a 3rd course it could be a good refresher for some!

[growalot]

Manditory shooting proficiency for ALL courses or you fail!...that would also eliminate some of the "wives" tags BS that has been going on ...forever.... What good are your OBR's when that is going on?

[The_Field_Ager]

It's all about attitude and ethics. I have seen living deer with their rumps blown off from poor shotguns shots. Likely as the animal was moving. No implement is above being abused. It is not an xbow or vertical matter. It is all about knowing and following through with those shots you are comfortable with. Personally, I do not like to shoot at deer over 20 yards with bow. It's amazing how damn small they look through those sights, even at these ranges.

 

No implement is above being abused by ass-hats and unfortunately you can't legislate for this. Going afield under-prepared and with untuned equipment is slovenly and part of the ass-hatery imho. Of course, sometimes accidents do happen. Your bow takes a knock, the peep gets moved and so forth. Best to bring a field tip or two and fire off a couple once in the stand. And don't go out without hex wrenches for your equipment.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Papist

[Freytown]

Here's a better solution....wait until rifle season. Killing males before the rut is a bad idea anyway. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

listen I was against them...for the reason that the DEC yet again botched the whole thing up...Wow was that a diplomatic statement!..any whoo not to put up or shut up ...sorta speak I did pick one up and shouldered it....first time ever I have picked up a scoped weapon and it was ....simply put perfect...I bought it on the spot...that was an expensive card reader I went in for...lol thank God for gander points.... near free.... but I digress....

I still say it should have a FULL ARCHERY course to be allowed in bow season...sorry but there is just more to bow hunting than an accurate shot..if the new stuff they have stuck in the gun course doesn't cover archery hunting.. than no ...I do not see how they have to have 2 days for archery and 2 days for gun yet x-bow is just a side note to the gun course...

ALL THAT SAID I COULD BE WRONG...it's been a long time since I took my two courses and sat with my kids through their 2 courses. How are they cvering xbow in that gun course??

 

Having just sat through a gun course, I can tell you they dont cover them much at all. In fact, the instructor spent more time calling bow hunters trophy hunting nut jobs and talking about how goofy and awkward crossbows were than he did giving actual information that the class needed to know about them for the test. It was pretty sad, I had to sit there and bite my lip quite a bit during the class.

 

I want them to be legal all of bow season, and they should just be added to the bow class. At least they teach you something about blood trailing, shot placement, etc.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Here's a better solution....wait until rifle season. Killing males before the rut is a bad idea anyway. 

 

Why?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Here's a better solution....wait until rifle season. Killing males before the rut is a bad idea anyway. 

Why?

[WNYBuckHunter]

I used to hate the ideas of XBOWS being allowed during archery seasons. After the amount of deer that I have hear of being wounded lately both on this sight and among friends with verticle bows. I feel that XBOWS could have changed this. It takes little to no practise to kill an animal with one. I think we as outdoorsman we owe it to the animal we are trying to kill to utilize the most efficient method available. I'm sure some will disagree as I would have a few months ago. But it is hard to argue that to become proficient with a verticle bow it takes shooting thousands of arrows annually, and some are not willing or able to do that. Now I know some will argue that mistakes will happen and I totally agree but I also know that the archers who shoot year round and shoot thousands of arrows a year are far less likely to wound an animal.

 

110% agree with that.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Jinx Culver. You owe me a coke

[Buckmaster7600]

It's all about attitude and ethics. I have seen living deer with their rumps blown off from poor shotguns shots. Likely as the animal was moving. No implement is above being abused. It is not an xbow or vertical matter. It is all about knowing and following through with those shots you care comfortable with. Personally, I do not like to shoot at deer over 20 yards with bow. It's amazing how damn small they look through those sights, even at these ranges.

No implement is above being abused by as-hats and unfortunately you can't legislate for this.

You can never stop the abuse.

However you can stop the needless wounding due to lack of ability or skill. I could buy a crossbow at noon sight it in and feel 100% confident with it to go in a stand tonight.

If I was to by a new compound I would not hunt with it until next deer season because I would not feel proficient with it. I will not give up my compounds until I can no longer draw one back "hell I'm shooting my wives bow this year as I have a torn rotator cuff." One can not deny the pick up and hunt capabilities of a Xbow.

[Buckmaster7600]

Why?

I'll 3rd this WHY?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I am for inclusion as well, but let's be realistic. The type of hunter that will push the limits of their skill set and the weapons capabilities are not going to change regardless of the weapon in their hands. Wounded at 40 with a compound  or wounded at 60 with a cross bow really doesn't matter. I read the threads every year and see the stories of the hunters that have no business taking the shots that they do. the "I had pretty decent groups at 30" and then taking 40+ yard shots on game.

[jjb4900]

I think the biggest fear about crossbows is the image of hunters invading the woods and ruining the "integrity" of Bow season.........I just picked one up and intend to "bowhunt" with it the same as I do with my compound.

[The_Field_Ager]

You can never stop the abuse.

However you can stop the needless wounding due to lack of ability or skill.

 

 

Yes and no. And of course this issue can be said of all forms of hunting tool. Some folk are just born bad and no amount of mentoring is gonna prevent them from acting like DBs later on. Or even just being plain lazy. A lot of lazy hunters out there.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Papist

[LET EM GROW]

I was always against them myself.. but if it will helps people make better shots and more ethical harvests. Im all for it.. Or get anyone in the woods who can not draw and hold back a bow for any medical or physical reason.. awesome, perfect solution.. I have yet to see any X-BOW ruin any of my archery hunts so i really do not have a reason to be against them. 

 

The X-BOW is just as accurate as a compound... its all in the one who is shooting it.. Hopefully everyone does the animal the justice and practices with whatever weapon your using to the point of being comfortable and accurate at whatever range you choose suitable..

 

i do believe there should be a safety course as well, especially with the power of a X-BOW.. Maybe not a 2 day course but at least incorporate the X-BOw in with the bow course or gun course.. It is the concept of a bow, but fired like a gun in my eyes but still deserves some sort of safety program like the bow and gun.

 

Also i heard the DEC was thinking of making manditory safety courses for muzzle loaders soon too for anyone who hasn't purchased a mz tag  before.. Maybe just a rumor.. but i wouldnt be surprised

[Buckmaster7600]

I am for inclusion as well, but let's be realistic. The type of hunter that will push the limits of their skill set and the weapons capabilities are not going to change regardless of the weapon in their hands. Wounded at 40 with a compound or wounded at 60 with a cross bow really doesn't matter. I read the threads every year and see the stories of the hunters that have no business taking the shots that they do. the "I had pretty decent groups at 30" and then taking 40+ yard shots on game.

You will never stop this type.

The type I'm referring to see the ones wounding at 20 yds.

[Bow Addict]

Here's a better solution....wait until rifle season. Killing males before the rut is a bad idea anyway. 

Seriously Freytown!Why?

[Buckmaster7600]

The X-BOW is just as accurate as a compound... its all in the one who is shooting it.. Hopefully everyone does the animal the justice and practices with whatever weapon your using to the point of being comfortable and accurate at whatever range you choose suitable..

I completely disagree with this. Yes I can shoot my compound extremely accurately however I can pull out my crossbow that I haven't shot in 3

Years and match or better my compound groups.

[Freytown]

Why?

Over here in PA the percentage of the total buck harvest has grown from 10% to 40% during archery. Do you think that maybe the breeding will be impacted as this harvest grows? Everyone wants first crack at the bucks and this trend will hurt. Note: male + female = fawn. Remove either before the rut =  zero fawn.

[The_Field_Ager]

 I can pull out my crossbow that I haven't shot in 3

Years and match or better my compound groups.

 

 

There are a lot of factors in a live hunt that can negatively effect shot placement that cannot be recreated on a target. But yes, Vertical requires a lot more dedication and patience than xbow or gun. Some folk might be better off never going near a vertical bow. But what can ya do?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Over here in PA the percentage of the total buck harvest has grown from 10% to 40% during archery. Do you think that maybe the breeding will be impacted as this harvest grows? Everyone wants first crack at the bucks and this trend will hurt. Note: male + female = fawn. Remove either before the rut =  zero fawn.

If they were in monogamous relationships I might agree, but one buck can breed many does.  

 

Let me go out on a limb here and guess that you don't bow hunt?

[Buckmaster7600]

There are a lot of factors in a live hunt that can negatively effect shot placement that cannot be recreated on a target. But yes, Vertical requires a lot more dedication and patience than xbow or gun. Some folk might be better off never going near a vertical bow. But what can ya do?

You can minimize the risk via a Xbow. When you add lack of skill, ability to the shooting of live game the chance of something not good go up exponentially. Take the lack of skill, ability out of it and the chances go down. A crossbow takes 95%

Of the skill out of it and makes it mechanical.