Winter plans - Hinge cutting/ tree downing

[LET EM GROW]

Ive watched a few videos on YouTube about hinge cutting over the long weekend. These definitely helped visualize everything you guys have posted about.. lots of good information, thanks everyone 

[thphtm]

The videos make the hinge cutting look easy ( they must have done many trees ) Go slow , if you cut too deep they snap off and you wind up with firewood, even on trees with a 6" dia.I am thinking of making one of the long handled hooks that they use to pull the trees over, it might help on snapping tree trunks.

They are still coming buy every day and hitting the ones I cut every day.

Edited December 28, 2015 by thphtm

[LET EM GROW]

Yea, i have hinge cut trees before, just never for the sole purpose of creating cover/bedding/browse for deer.. That pole does look like it comes in hand for sure, especially placing these trees right where they want them.. 

[dbHunterNY]

pole a hand saw are a must if you intend to keep doing this.  easy to go too far through with a chainsaw.  another thing is bringing down your bigger base trees to good resting spot 6' up versus pulling the top all the way to the ground and possibly pinching off the outer portion of the tree that it uses to draw up nutrients and water.  it's a good thing so it doesn't break but you get tired quick trying to pull trees down that are hung up.

[LET EM GROW]

Im hoping to start either this weekend or the weekend following(weather and wife permitting) and will be sure to take pics before and after.. 

[Berniez]

know any place to buy less expensive switch grass?...

ERNST SEEDS Wholesale Price List - 2015   http://www.ernstseed.com/files/documents/2015-wholesale-pricelist.pdf   800-873-3321   Here in NY CAve-in-rock is a good choice but it is not that tall 3-5 feet. But the price is right.  If you have a real low spot....I like  Blackwell as its 5-7 feet tall and sets a 5-10 foot tap root. iT DOES WITHSTAND YEARLY FLOODING

I grow both on the property. The price is really good and you just have to be patient with switchgrass but once established lasts for at least 20 years if you do some periodic maintenance.  I have 1 plot over 20 years and is still in great shape.  One year during a drought I let a neighbor cut it the last week in july and he got over 10 tons per acre.  The next year it came back even stronger.   IF you want to plant it this spring buy it soon and leave it in the garage/barn/outbuilding. The cold will stratify the seed and improve germination

[Dingler]

What about trees that are to big? Girdling? Anyone heard of it? Does it work? Also feel bad for cutting trees down, so going to plant some as well. Anyone ever order from saratoga nursery? Thinking about getting some pines. Got some douglas fir last year and they all died. Going to switch to norway spruce this year.

[dbHunterNY]

What about trees that are to big? Girdling? Anyone heard of it? Does it work? Also feel bad for cutting trees down, so going to plant some as well. Anyone ever order from saratoga nursery? Thinking about getting some pines. Got some douglas fir last year and they all died. Going to switch to norway spruce this year.

 

 I know some do it but don't girdle.  you're just asking for a tree to fall on someone or something down the road when it's standing dead.  if you're cutting anything down bigger than 6" diameter you should probably consult someone first.  takes a while to get something like that back and you might wreck other desirable trees by dropping it.  if you are set on taking it down then just drop it in a good spot versus letting fall in some unknown direction later.  depending on what it is, cut it really low after felling and the stump will grow new stuff for reachable browse.  no need to plant trees in areas like that.  new growth will happen.  douglas fir will get hammered by the deer and not survive.  for solitary buck preferred bedding on stuff like points and other spots I think it's ok to have better food close as the doe get them moving during the season.  for doe family groups they should move from point A to point B.  point A bedding should have lower quality stuff to munch on but point B is what it is because it's much higher in quality like say an oak stand leading to a food plot or ag field.

Edited December 30, 2015 by dbHunterNY

[gjs4]

I went out to Tony LaPratt in 05, worked a project with Steve Bartylla, read all of dougherty, sturgis and vales books, as well as those from Miller, ozaga, kroll.....

Jim braukers book is the best on this but please take this advice from a guy who's lived this before any of it was mainstream ....

Lay your whole property out for deer flow based on non invasive stand access before you cut a tree or plant a plot. If you don't know where to make a bed, social, block or browse area you shouldn't be.

Anyone who's hunted a food plot only to see deer use it at night after that should grab this quick- but most will just make a mess and wait for the giant who never shows to be there because they saw a video or read something.

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[Zag]

What I would do around the edges of the hinge cut area is stagger the height if the cuts. Maybe right on the edge cut at 2-3ft then as your working your way in cut some 3-4ft, then 4-5ft, that should create a good cover layer, hopefully the bedded deer will never see you coming to access your stands. 

[Dingler]

Thanks for the info! Like I said working on my plan and want to get it right. Playing with  Ideas right now. Thinking I like the idea of doing a couple of small areas first to see how deer respond, then improve on them as the years progress. My main problem is that there is no deer movement after the leaves are off the trees. Right no with the snow on the ground there is almost no tracks, no rubs in the woods, zero scrapes, trail cam pictures are at night, ect.. I know where the deer are beddeing now due to one of my neighbors doesn't hunt and the other neighbor has some thick stuff! I just don't know if it is worth trying to compete with that or not? With ag fields around don't know if food is worth it either? Another neighbor has apple tree orchard so would more apples trees be worth it?  I see deer and have taken 2 nice bucks off the property and several does in the past 10 years, but always during bow season, come gun season I have nothing or sit and wait till the get bumped for other places (happened this year). Just don't know what the lowest hole in the bucket is so to speak. I know a picture would help you, so how do I post one?

[tjdusaf]

Well I wouldn't try to compete with an orchard...$$$$$$$

Ag fields are also difficult to compete with but since deer eat all throughout the day you may be able to do some small snack plots focused on the Oct-Nov period....

Maybe you can key in travel corridors... How do they get from bedding to the orchard or Ag... Create secure areas of travel by hinging.

I have similar issues, realize that it's not gonna be fixed by Oct '16 and am going to focus on lessening the canopy in our wooded sections, and releasing some wild apples and oaks that are getting crowded.

If you can predict where deer may get bumped from, start creating some corridors near those locations that might direct deer toward your stands....

Like you said, start doing a few small things and see where it leads.

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[growalot]

I spent a few hours yesterday knocking down dead saplings behind the new blind...many dead trees need to be cut...this is the slashings the buck ran through...found 4 single fresh beds in the snow...All that will be gathered and put into the brush pile fencing along the food plot lane way...I have a small area of junk trees I can hinge high in February...but I need to work out an area to put in a small pond with the bulldozer...the land drains to the center of the property on two sides and just off our place the neighbors swamp opens up with several year around springs start start 50ft off our line. This is an area inside an L That L is the lane way plot that connects to the bigger field plot. everything inside it is slashings and farther back the big woods.

Edited January 2, 2016 by growalot

[Dingler]

Thanks tjdusaf. Sounds like you understand where I'm coming from.  Ordering some trees to plant tomorrow. Can't get my dad on board with a bigger plot where he mows, he did say that I can do one but he wants it were I have a spot that is old field that hasn't been mowed in 8 years (looking good and bedding happens). I'm thinking instead of food there I will put in a water hole. Anyone have any luck with water holes in NY? We do have a pond and a small creek on the property, but I read that deer like small private water spots. I have a 70 gallon tank I was going to use.

[growalot]

Experience has shown me ...ag and or orchards...not hard to compete with if done properly...I'm surrounded by swamp bedding,fallow no hunting pasture and golden rod... beef pastures and corn. The corn is rotated every 4-5. Years with grain/ clover. Then add a old farm orchard and wild Apple's every where.I still draw a bunch of deer.Now on 73 acres I concentrate my management efforts on only 38 acres. I do my plots and bedding areas a bit different t and I maintain all natural plantings many "professional's" say to get rid of...Yep it's all in how you set the land up and knowing the local herd.

Edited January 4, 2016 by growalot

[Dingler]

growalot, What do you plant for food plots to make your place a draw? Seems tough to offer something different, and will grow in our climate. Same with bedding, do you offer more stem count in your woods by thinning? plant pines? or is more of location? By location I mean different bedding for different weather? If that is the case doesn't it make it harder to hunt by not knowing where the deer maybe bedding? Sorry for all the questions but you seem to sound like you have some of this figured out! Thanks

[LET EM GROW]

I went out to Tony LaPratt in 05, worked a project with Steve Bartylla, read all of dougherty, sturgis and vales books, as well as those from Miller, ozaga, kroll.....

Jim braukers book is the best on this but please take this advice from a guy who's lived this before any of it was mainstream ....

Lay your whole property out for deer flow based on non invasive stand access before you cut a tree or plant a plot. If you don't know where to make a bed, social, block or browse area you shouldn't be.

Anyone who's hunted a food plot only to see deer use it at night after that should grab this quick- but most will just make a mess and wait for the giant who never shows to be there because they saw a video or read something.

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Agreed, and i have already planned these out, to be away from any stand or access route.... these will not be near any stands, but in between a couple of food plots where stand have been strategically placed for entry and exit ... these plots are actually frequented quite a bit during the day all year long, its like a safe zone almost, just going to spruce it up for more bedding cover

[growalot]

I'll try later to get pics...just did and lost the post...too sick to try again right now...

[gjs4]

Agreed, and i have already planned these out, to be away from any stand or access route.... these will not be near any stands, but in between a couple of food plots where stand have been strategically placed for entry and exit ... these plots are actually frequented quite a bit during the day all year long, its like a safe zone almost, just going to spruce it up for more bedding cover

Two ways to look at this- find the trees and build the land around them or (2nd) build it around the deers already observed tendencies.

Don't overthink them- if they're there- what more could you ask for? Don Higgins once said " the more natural a property is the more bucks it will keep and pull". Just food for thought.

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[dbHunterNY]

Two ways to look at this- find the trees and build the land around them or (2nd) build it around the deers already observed tendencies.

Don't overthink them- if they're there- what more could you ask for? Don Higgins once said " the more natural a property is the more bucks it will keep and pull". Just food for thought.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

good concise info right there.

[LET EM GROW]

I've thought about this as well. They are very comfortable here.. daytime pics/sightings all firearms and late seasons. . just thought about adding a few beds since they don't lay up here. But I don't want to ruin it either. I think I'll move my focus from this spot on to a couple others.. thanks again.. that's my issue is always over thinking them

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[growalot]

Dingler...I got smart(feeling better so brain engaged)  and went to the land management section to find my pics....I post pictures there a lot..

 

http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/11719-the-final-walk-through/

[Dingler]

Great pictures! Thanks! Couple more questions, I noticed those pictures are from a few years ago. Have you changed any of your food mixes? Have the woods filled in around those trails/plots? How are your bedding spots related to the trails and stand setups? Do you have any pictures of your bedding areas? I guess a lot of questions, my bad. Just trying to get ideas of what works in the great state of NY. 

[growalot]

I keep the plot on a rotation depending on the seed mixes I make. With annuals I switch them up yearly...perennials I will rotate to annuals every 3-5 years...then put main annual plots into a perennial mix... I did add the lane way plot this year....I allowed the plot trails behind the house to go.... due to lack of movement during hunting..They are chopping corn before season and I want the deer movement to move across the street to our land there...away from the hunting lease that also borders the big corn field...When that farmer rotates back to grains and legumes I'll replant those trail plots...in the mean time I'll work the wood lot to open more sun and have the brambles and the plots growing...I plan on opening and flattening a main trail road that goes up the center and right to the plots across the street...once the bulldozing is done this spring, I will lay down a soil mixture and plant a good clover mix there.. this will be similar to to trail there now, but not as sloped and approximately 1000ft long. 

The bedding is right along and  in the middle of those trails...I do not do large expansions of bedding areas...that is not how the deer here utilize the property... 

IE..... today I went down for my daily walk and at the base of the hill I came across 3 different buck beds...How I know they are buck beds is they have urine in them...doe do not do that...at least not that I have ever seen in many a year...the buck beds most often do..unless they have been jumped out of them...This  has several apple, a few pine and many maple and ash...I hinged a few ash and several maple to open the wild apple...the beds were above these and up next to the pine trunks...then up on the ridge I downed a large section of poplar ...they are of no use over 30ft, but cut they sucker, and grouse feed off this. The 5 beds I found there were doe and they were on the edge of this cut area with a line of wht spruce to their upper east side( a wind break I planted years ago for the goat pasture(plot now)). Another 3 beds I found in a "cubby" of blk locust along the main open food plot...this I lined with field stone from clearing the plot and it in turn grew a thick tall bramble patch...Mind you under two stands...in front of a blind and a heavily used trail around the plot...I have over 40 stands and blinds then at least 12 ground blinds. The deer here are open woods deer...for lack of a better term.... Even with thick swamp all around. I have not only found, but watched mature buck and doe groups bed the open woods...they enjoy the sides of our gully the low lip of our ridges...bramble patches and the mature maples woods ...many a mature buck have come in and bedded down at the base of such trees usually always facing the west slope of our hill and the tree just a bit north east of their backs.

During the gun season they are strictly in the neighbors golden rod field....I told them to keep deer mow trails and leave the rest,save opening the wild apples as they grow... Here any and all mowing produces lush clover...well that back fired...lol. She has the best golden rod field save one around here...the other is a half mile to my south and hunted hard...hers is not hunted at all and borders us.Best deer bedding.

 

Lord that was  long...post pics later but go through past land management and trail cam post ..I post a lot of pictures...recent ones

Edited January 6, 2016 by growalot

[Dingler]

I also have a near by deer sanctuary. It is located about 3/4 of a mile from my hunting location. It has everything a deer could want. My question is it possible to use that to your advantage? Or just know that when pressure is on that the smart older deer will go there and live till next year? I understand that it is best to stay out off the woods as much as you can other than spring to do improvements, but that is unlikely for me due to my father likes to walk his property, and owns it. My other question is, if you do own more of a deer travel corridor can you do planted trails to get deer to move where you want them, or is it better to enhance trails they already use?