Reframing Trophy Hunting

[Doc]

If you are asking me if I condone the safe act, the answer is no. However, I knew from the beginning it was not going to be repealed nor was the Governor going to be voted out. All the wind was bravado. People who (actually) hunt have no time for "blow harden". 

 

 

Andrew Cuomo is pro hunting. He was more than willing to work with the hunting community for several years. The safe act was and is a done deal. It should have been considered a disagreement and the hunting community should have continued to work with AC. Numerous opportunities were blown and it is unlikely we will see another governor as in tune with hunting as him. 

 

The safe act and posturing about AC was a red herring and grandstanding to dumb down the hunting community. Doc and others had no shortage of time to fish for red herring when there were other fish to fry. 

This looks like a proper time for me to simply sit silent and let the idiot continue to embarrass himself. And he is doing a fine job.

[Lawdwaz]

You are a Joke. People Tell you the truth and you spit shit at them. Hope about you go to some of theses places and get the truth shoved in your face. Your stupid so called new seasons on song birds and wasted money on put and shoot game birds. Yeah i bet that brings in all kinds of new hunters!

Now if that little outburst doesn't draw some attention from the mods I wonder what will?

[Curmudgeon]

Die thread Die!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Now if that little outburst doesn't draw some attention from the mods I wonder what will?

HaHa...Yeah right  Your sidekick gets on here and blatantly slanders another member on this site because he does not agree with his thoughts?  Is this coming from the bottle again?

[mike rossi]

This looks like a proper time for me to simply sit silent and let the idiot continue to embarrass himself. And he is doing a fine job.

 

There is nothing to continue about Doc. The only thing I left out that you oppose which (might) help recruit hunters is youth seasons.

[mike rossi]

There is nothing to continue about Doc. The only thing I left out that you oppose which (might) help recruit hunters is youth seasons.

 

Oh, wait, your right Doc, I am an idiot, I also forgot that you oppose lowering the age for youth hunters as well.....

[Rattler]

Every man is entitled to his opinions.  Opinions do not effect hunting.  Policy does.  And hunting policy should only be based on facts presented by wildlife biologists.  

 

Nobody should condemn another man's opinion without asking for the reasons behind them.  He may supply you with some info you've never considered before.  That should at least be taken as a need for some more research into the subject prior to condemning the opinion because it contrasts with yours.

 

Expecting all hunter's to fall in line, lockstep with the most vocal, or aggressive ones, is asking for a totalitarian regime.  Just because you are right about an issue does not give you the right to force it upon everyone else against their will.  Take a course called Salesmanship 101.

 

The same applies to anyone with an objection to trophy hunting.  Things aren't what they appear and the enemies of hunting are selling a false narrative about it.  There needs to be a constant correction about the lies in the narrative every time it comes up.  You can't make it into anything other than what it is.

[Doewhacker]

"Third we have been very laxed, perhaps to much in the moderation of posts and enforcement of our rules. The downside is a few members have chosen to exploit these opportunities to post curses, attacks and other completely useless content that doesn't belong here.  There will be no warnings other then this one.  Keep it clean, do not attack other members, do not curse (family site).   I and all the amazing folks that help maintain and participate in this community have no time to baby sit. We will no longer issue warnings for something you should already know.  You break the rules you are not welcome here.  See: http://huntingny.com/rules"

 

I see a couple of attacks in this thread, swear words and name calling.

[Lawdwaz]

 Is this coming from the bottle again?

 

Only tugging on a mouthwash bottle at 6:30 am........sorry to disappoint.

[dbHunterNY]

So..........

How do we make people see how hunting older bucks can be a good thing, as well as letting those who shoot does or spikes still be a viable way to hunt?

How do we restructure the way people look at a trophy hunter?

 

people in general only see and appreciate what's in front of them.  they have to experience how hunting deer with older bucks is first hand.  with DEC claiming that biologically the herd is as great as they claim, passing young bucks is currently to them a social issue only and therefore everything is voluntary.  despite their disowning the biological benefits of passing yearling bucks, DEC still has to own their statement of encouraging those to pass yearlings.  DEC is slow to do anything without majority the public pushing for it. so move on to us and forget DEC... 

 

first everyone has to know what the heck a yearling buck looks like that includes non-hunters that are willing and care too.  it has to be put out their so much that indicators of a yearling buck start to become common knowledge.  to back that up, after harvest there's nothing to say hunters' shouldn't itch their curiosity to know if what they took is a yearling or older.  looking at their teeth it's not hard to tell if it's a fawn, yearling, or older based on their teeth.  at those very early stages it's not subjective or based on wear.  a tooth is there or not.  a tooth has this many cusps or not.  if I can teach multiple elementary school kids within 20 minutes, the general public learn it. 

 

next people always ask why.  some basic items based on antler increases, hunting experiences observed, and biological benefits should all be put out there.  you might value a particular benefit differently than the next person, but I assure you there's something their for anyone to appreciate.  people will probably forget all but the one or two their that really appeal to them.  still ok, as long as the general understanding remains that it's great to pass yearlings.

 

we've got to ditch the state of mind that my needs should be your needs, outside of what's good for deer.  subjective reasons for not passing a yearling are still okay.  every yearling doesn't and won't live but anything short of an honest effort will lead to too many being harvested to help the situation.  although subjective we need to understand that our peers will get over any reason they can understand.  first time hunters, youth, the old man that just wants to take one buck close to the homestead just to stay in the tradition that is our sport, to maybe the guy working three jobs with little time to hunt, or the enlisted being deployed.  the biggest part of any of those is the person pulling the trigger has to be sincere and own the harvest.  DEC doesn't manage the deer.  we do.  if there's any doubt, regret, or lack of an honest effort then be ready for your peers to give you crap for it.

 

i'll say it again. DEC owns their statement and we respectfully own the honest trigger pull.

 

the last question... start using trophy as more of an accomplishment versus something better than the rest.  even so, in my opinion ditch the use of the word trophy so much.  still use it but not as often.  if someone didn't understand the context of something you said, would you keep saying the same thing and hope it'll work itself out?  no.  you rephrase, use a different word, or tack on something brief to elaborate.  maybe even do the latter to begin with.

 

my opinion Rob.

[Padre86]

If you are asking me if I condone the safe act, the answer is no. However, I knew from the beginning it was not going to be repealed nor was the Governor going to be voted out. All the wind was bravado. People who (actually) hunt have no time for "blow harden". 

 

 

Andrew Cuomo is pro hunting. He was more than willing to work with the hunting community for several years. The safe act was and is a done deal. It should have been considered a disagreement and the hunting community should have continued to work with AC. Numerous opportunities were blown and it is unlikely we will see another governor as in tune with hunting as him. 

 

The safe act and posturing about AC was a red herring and grandstanding to dumb down the hunting community. Doc and others had no shortage of time to fish for red herring when there were other fish to fry. 

 

 

How exactly is Cuomo "in tune" with hunters?  He has the occasional letter in the DEC magazine?  He poses with a deer hunter for a photo every now and then?  Cuomo is a politician, and barring any extensive backwoods experience he may have (which I've not heard of, but then again I haven't researched much about his past) his "support" for hunting seems to only go so far as is needed to bring in the rural, blue-collar votes (as is the case with many other politicians).

 

I won't get into the back-and-forth on the SAFE Act other than to say that most hunters I know are pro 2nd amendment and don't like it, which shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

 

As for fishing for red herring, it's funny that you bring that up.  Your signature talks about building support for dove hunting, while you don't seem to have any problems with trashing other people's ideas/opinions that differ from your own on issues like firearm legislation or bear hunting.  I realize others on here have been side-tracking this thread with overtly political comments, but you've also been doing a bit of pot-stirring yourself, far too much of it in my opinion to be calling other people out.

 

 

 

As for how we reframe trophy hunting, I think education is a good approach.  Educating hunters on proper game management (truthfully, I find that the average hunter already knows quite a bit on the local wildlife and their ecological role in the region vs the average non-hunter) and educating the public, who by and large know very little about hunting, wild-life management, land management, ect.

 

If non-hunters are using HSUS and PETA videos to learn about hunting, then of course they're going to get a very one-sided narrative.  Government wildlife agencies and hunter conservation groups should at least provide information to the public, engage in conferences, public meetings, ect. to explain how hunting takes place and is managed for long term sustainability.

 

Edited May 25, 2016 by Padre86