NY Deer Poaching Legislation Passed

[dbHunterNY]

Deer poaching legislation that increases penalties for poaching deer is making some progress.  Amendments had to be made to first get it through, but it was voted on and passed through the Assembly uncontested.  Not a single 'Nay' vote!  Lots of momentum now going into the senate.  Several hundred if not thousands of $ to illegally shoot a deer and possible imprisonment.  Also it got rid of the wording "wild deer", so if you shoot a pet deer behind someone's fence, there's a possibility this might kick in too but not completely sure.  Definitely will make a difference.  Before the penalties were practically nothing with no incentive for a poacher to change his/her ways.  Areas hit hard by it is most likely same people being repeat offenders.  Lots of incentive not to be that way now.

 

https://www.qdma.com/news/qdma-supports-new-york-bills-to-increase-poaching-penalties

 

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&leg_video=&bn=A07171&term=2015&Summary=Y&Text=Y

 

 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

You shoot a someone's..Livestock...Behind fence and the wild deer killing fine will look like Bubble gum change!

[grampy]

If this deters even one poacher from doing their dirty business, it's well worth it. The fines for the crimes have been much to low. I'm happy to see this!

[Steuben Jerry]

Finally! Hoping this gets signed into law. The one change I'd make is to increase the maximum fine. I see it got changed from 2k to 3k, but I'd go 10k for each deer.

[BizCT]

A poached deer should be lifetime ban.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dbHunterNY]

You shoot a someone's..Livestock...Behind fence and the wild deer killing fine will look like Bubble gum change!

 

maybe so but an extra year (or more if they shoot more than one deer) of imprisonment not so much.  if it happens and they get caught under that circumstance why not put the screws to them a little deeper.  I'm sure you agree.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Finally! Hoping this gets signed into law. The one change I'd make is to increase the maximum fine. I see it got changed from 2k to 3k, but I'd go 10k for each deer.

It was higher but would have lost support. This is basically a 100% increase over the outdated fines that were in place. 

[Uptown Redneck]

I just read in NY Outdoor News that the problem with increasing the penalties for poaching deer has to do with the judges who hear such cases. It appears from the article that a lot of judges already think the current fine is too high for the crime and because of this they plea bargain these cases down resulting in what can best be described as a "slap on the wrist". If these judges think the current fine is too high what makes you think they will impose the newer far higher fine? As in most criminal cases plea bargaining will surely result in most people receiving a far lesser penalty then what this new law calls for. While on paper and in theory this new law sounds good reality most likely will provide a different outcome.   

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Seems like the next move should be listing these judges and targeting them during their elections.

[tughillmcd]

Seems like the next move should be listing these judges and targeting them during their elections.

I understand and also despise poaching, but not just deer. I have a problem with the guys they catch with piles of fish when the limit is 50, or the guy that shoots a turkey a day early, because he didn't want to take a chance on someone else shooting that big bird. I believe all poaching needs to be addressed equally.

I have had many discussions about this with different people and here is some of the different perspectives I hear about raising the fines to high. When we only look at poaching, that is all we see and it makes us mad when they get off easy. When we pull back and look at the bigger picture things can change. What else does the judge have come across his bench in their time there? What may influence them in their decisions to go easy on the poacher, or anyone for that matter? Everyone's first reaction is they know the guy, may be a friend or even relative. I am sure that may happen but consider this.

A drunk driver kills a pregnant mother of 2 young children, and all the judge can do is sentence him to is a year in jail because of the circumstances. One day he has a case of child molestation and all he can give him 6 months probation with the evidence they have.

 

Then everything clicks, there is a rock solid case on something really bad, he throws the book at the guy only to have a parole board let them out early, or worse yet, someone wants to reduce the number of inmates in the jails, so back on the street he goes after serving 6 months of a 10 year sentence.

 

So now someone comes before the judge that is charged with shooting an illegal deer and the judge is asked to fine them and put them in jail for a year. That's all he could do to the drunk driver and far less than he could give the child molester. Could this lend itself to a decision to go easy on a poacher? Without knowing why the judge let the poacher off easy, one can only speculation. Judges have to fit a punishment to a crime, and they can see all kinds.

 

Not saying these cases actually happened, but the judge sees many more cases than just the poacher, and it has to weigh on them when a fine for an animal is higher than they can give someone for something more egregious.

Not saying it's right, but the entire judicial system is upside down. I am sure there are times the judge is taking care of his buddies, but don't blame them all. We don't know what evil's they were forced to let go.

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I understand and also despise poaching, but not just deer. I have a problem with the guys they catch with piles of fish when the limit is 50, or the guy that shoots a turkey a day early, because he didn't want to take a chance on someone else shooting that big bird. I believe all poaching needs to be addressed equally.

I have had many discussions about this with different people and here is some of the different perspectives I hear about raising the fines to high. When we only look at poaching, that is all we see and it makes us mad when they get off easy. When we pull back and look at the bigger picture things can change. What else does the judge have come across his bench in their time there? What may influence them in their decisions to go easy on the poacher, or anyone for that matter? Everyone's first reaction is they know the guy, may be a friend or even relative. I am sure that may happen but consider this.

A drunk driver kills a pregnant mother of 2 young children, and all the judge can do is sentence him to is a year in jail because of the circumstances. One day he has a case of child molestation and all he can give him 6 months probation with the evidence they have.

 

Then everything clicks, there is a rock solid case on something really bad, he throws the book at the guy only to have a parole board let them out early, or worse yet, someone wants to reduce the number of inmates in the jails, so back on the street he goes after serving 6 months of a 10 year sentence.

 

So now someone comes before the judge that is charged with shooting an illegal deer and the judge is asked to fine them and put them in jail for a year. That's all he could do to the drunk driver and far less than he could give the child molester. Could this lend itself to a decision to go easy on a poacher? Without knowing why the judge let the poacher off easy, one can only speculation. Judges have to fit a punishment to a crime, and they can see all kinds.

 

Not saying these cases actually happened, but the judge sees many more cases than just the poacher, and it has to weigh on them when a fine for an animal is higher than they can give someone for something more egregious.

Not saying it's right, but the entire judicial system is upside down. I am sure there are times the judge is taking care of his buddies, but don't blame them all. We don't know what evil's they were forced to let go.

We are SOOOOO far behind the other states in the Game protection laws and fines. There are states that fine based on a sliding scale of the "value" of the animal to the people of the state. and the bigger the deer the bigger the fine. I get that these judges see all kinds of cases, some of our other laws may be inadequate as well. But just like so many other professions or offices, they weren't "drafted" into them. THEY CHOOSE to take the position. administer to law or get out of the way for someone that will.

 

I have an issue,  like you, with all the illegal taking of game. The reality of it though is the whitetail the most popular game species bay far in the state. I believe it is number one in it's entire range. Just as I said in some other DEC threads about other topics, I see this as a positive. We are far behind where we should be, do we spout all negatives about a positive step becasue it doesn't go "far enough" or do we take the step as a first step and keep pushing? 

Edited May 5, 2016 by Culvercreek hunt club

[tughillmcd]

We are SOOOOO far behind the other states in the Game protection laws and fines. There are states that fine based on a sliding scale of the "value" of the animal to the people of the state. and the bigger the deer the bigger the fine. I get that these judges see all kinds of cases, some of our other laws may be inadequate as well. But just like so many other professions or offices, they weren't "drafted" into them. THEY CHOOSE to take the position. administer to law or get out of the way for someone that will.

 

I have an issue,  like you, with all the illegal taking of game. The reality of it though is the whitetail the most popular game species bay far in the state. I believe it is number one in it's entire range. Just as I said in some other DEC threads about other topics, I see this as a positive. We are far behind where we should be, do we spout all negatives about a positive step becasue it doesn't go "far enough" or do we take the step as a first step and keep pushing? 

 

First, I am not discounting this bill, just attempting to put forth a perspective that may be overlooked, and needs to be addressed.

Advocacy toward education about the feeling of the sportsmen on poaching overall to the judges and DA's actually is going to be necessary no matter what is done with fines. If all we do is raise fines and not work with the judicial system to give more weight to the infraction, we are not going to affect the outcome we desire.  We can raise the fines to $10,000. But without the judges and DA's willing to prosecute or not just plea bargain we are spinning our wheels.

The question that always arises from conversations I have with people on this topic is, how do we reach out to the DA's and judges to see what can be done. Telling people to vote someone out doesn't seem to work either. Remember the last election and how many people couldn't be bothered to vote.

 

I am with you that something needs to be done. I am not sure what the answer is, but just increasing fines and penelties is not going to be a magic pill.

[Fletch]

About time! I am so sick of seeing piddling fines for poachers. Heck the antlers or meat could be sold for more than the fine in a lot of cases!..... It is not perfect but a step in the right direction.

[dbHunterNY]

what we're talking about is raising fines enough to make most poachers think twice.  i'll play devils advocate....

 

how about the angle that DEC ECO's and judges have only so much time to deal with law breakers.  higher fines and jail time can and will make the less bold poachers that are the majority take a step back and rethink committing the crime.  you could then imagine judges and ECOs will have less of these potential cases to investigate or review and can then focus efforts elsewhere.  not to mention you're eliminating more potential tense situations of someone, who's breaking the law and happens to be armed, being confronted by an ECO.  an argument could then be made that it's making the ECO's safer.

 

I think we'd be talking about local judges and votes very much matter to them.  in local elections it can come often come down a few dozen votes to determine who's elected.  not like state wide elections when a "concern" is know.  also higher the penalty the higher the penalty the final plee ends up being.  a lot of final penalty has to do with court fines, surcharges, and how it effects who gets what money.  it'll now end in more money coming back to the people, whether it be state, county, and/or town.

 

no magic pill needed.  just progress and a step forward.  war on poaching still exists but this is a major battle that we're winning.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

First, I am not discounting this bill, just attempting to put forth a perspective that may be overlooked, and needs to be addressed.

Advocacy toward education about the feeling of the sportsmen on poaching overall to the judges and DA's actually is going to be necessary no matter what is done with fines. If all we do is raise fines and not work with the judicial system to give more weight to the infraction, we are not going to affect the outcome we desire. We can raise the fines to $10,000. But without the judges and DA's willing to prosecute or not just plea bargain we are spinning our wheels.

The question that always arises from conversations I have with people on this topic is, how do we reach out to the DA's and judges to see what can be done. Telling people to vote someone out doesn't seem to work either. Remember the last election and how many people couldn't be bothered to vote.

I am with you that something needs to be done. I am not sure what the answer is, but just increasing fines and penelties is not going to be a magic pill.

I didn't take your comments as discounting. Was only adding to them. I was only pointing out as a first step. There needs to be united support and effort to make anything work and as you pointed out NY couldn't get it done after the safe act.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

The Passed poaching Bill A7171 on the Assembly side and the Senate version now match in wording, it is known as S4727-B.

It now needs to be put on the calendar for the Senate Environmental Committee.
Call, email Tom O’Mara’s office.  He is the chair of the Senate Env. Com.

[email protected]    His EMAIL     His Albany Office phone  518-455-2091

When you call, I would suggest you ask to speak to someone on the legislative staff, then simply state you are a voting deer hunter, you support S4727-B and urge Senator O’Mara to get this Bill on the Senate Env Com calendar!!!!!!!

His office address below

Albany Office
Legislative Office Building Room 307
Albany , NY 12247
Phone: 518-455-2091


If it clears his committee, then onto regular Senate for a vote, then to Cuomo to either sign or veto.

[dbHunterNY]

for those of you who want this to happen, please do what Culver's post above suggests.  Contact Senator O'Mara!  With such an overwhelming vote I can't imagine it not going through.  As with any other promising legislation though, we don't want it to sit on someone's desk collecting dust.  if we get it on the floor soon, it'll still be in time to take effect during this coming season.