An honest assessment of Islam

[hunter49]

  You want to see honest check out "Advice for muslims" from Austrailian Prime Minister Julia Gillard. goole it to see.

[2BRKnot2B]

Who's dying in America? There was a terrible attack ten years ago.  Nothing since.  The US committed acts of terrorism against Japan in WWII, do they exile Americans? No. You're an ignorant man and it's unfortunate because the reason your party is losing popularity in this country is because of hypocritical attitudes like that.

Nothing since? You're one of those disarmed (no wits) idiots aren't you. What was LAX shortly after 9/11? What was Ft Hood? What were the Islamists with bombs, and guns in their trunk headed fro Ft Ord? What of the bomber in NYC's Times Sq.? What you live in a box, and never get to watch TV read a newspaper, or surf the 'net (Give me a break)?And that's but a few of those arrested, or charged who didn't carry out their attacks.Braindead.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Now you are generalizing to say that all Muslims are blood thirsty killers, MR VJP.  Which is the problem in the first place, closed-mindedness.  They have the right to practice their religion here just as much as you have the right to go to church on Sundays.  But conservatives forget that because if you're not an old, straight, white, Christian man you don't deserve to live in this country. 

Mr VJP in the NRA thread you often said that if you're a gun owner who doesn't belong to the NRA you're nothing.  Well the same applies here, if you're an American who doesn't want others to be able to enjoy the same freedom you have, you're nothing.  You're a hypocrite and speaking bluntly, this country ought to be ashamed of people like you.

Wildcat...just wondering---You ok with Satanism and human sacrifice?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

The US committed acts of terrorism against Japan in WWII, do they exile Americans? No.

mind letting me in on the details of what you are talking about?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

obviously you have never sat on the end of the job interview where you get to ask the questions.. I can find out all I need to know just by asking questions... liberals are easy to spot and so are conservatives..

I agee 100%. Anything can be found out during an interview....and it is amazing what folks put on their facebook sna myspace pages

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Right, over seas is a different story, some place's truely hate us with a passion.

I saw news footage after the 9-11 attack in some communities where people were cheering in the streets.

Dave

Forgot one point Dave....cheering and flag burning...in our streets

[Culvercreek hunt club]

1)  However, we can all express our different views without resorting to petty insults, name calling, or references to people's personal lives i.e. education, age, etc.  In my view if you have an opinion but cannot express it in an intelligent, meaningful, and respectful manner...please keep it to yourself. 

Just a reminder that you did man up when you took the same tact with me and apologized. It can happen ...folks get upset and especially when a topic like this is discussed. many lives were effected that day and never will be the same.

jsut a little understanding...I think most of the guys are here are stand up and good people

[Mr VJP]

Quoting Roman statesman and political theorist Marcus Tullius  Cicero:

"A nation can survive its fools, even the ambitious. But it  cannot survive treason from within.

An enemy at the gates is less  formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the  traitor moves against those within the gate freely, his sly whispers  rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government  itself.

For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents  familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he  appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He  rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to  undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that  it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear."

[virgil]

They have the same right to practice their religion as anybody else.  But I don't know of any other religion that is being given a pass for killing people.

Religions don't kill people.  People kill people.  Isn't that the stance all you guys take on guns? - it's not the guns,it's the criminals using them. 

[nyantler]

Here is one of the teachings of Islam... I'm guessing slaughtering means killing

Jihad for the sake of Allah is one of the religious obligations of Islam, which has been practiced by the heroes of the Islamic nation, as a way of forcing all who are not governed by Shariah to be so governed and slaughtering those who will not submit to Shariah and an Islamic empire.

[virgil]

Definition: Jihad is the Arabic for what can be variously translated as "struggle" or "effort," or "to strive," "to exert," "to fight," depending on the context. In the West, the word is generally understood to mean "holy war," and the terms are given, inaccurately, exclusively military connotations.  The Quran does call for "jihad" as a military struggle on behalf of Islam. But the Quran also refers to jihad as an internal, individual, spiritual struggle toward self-improvement, moral cleansing and intellectual effort. It is said that Prophet Muhammad considered the armed-struggle version of holy war "the little jihad," but considered the spiritual, individual version of holy war--the war within oneself--as "the great jihad."  Including the "jihad" as one of the five pillars of Islam is another common Western misunderstanding. Jihad is not among the five pillars of Islam (the profession of faith, prayer five times a day, fasting during Ramadan, alms for the poor and performance of the Hajj, or pilgrimage to Mecca, at least once in each Muslim's lifetime).  Still, "jihad" is considered to be every Muslim's duty--be it the struggle to improve society, preventing the exploitation of the poor or vulnerable, or improving oneself before the Day of Judgment.

Are you so sure that there's nothing in the bible or the Torah that could be taken out of context and used to make believe that another entire religous group should be lumped together and condemned?  yes, the people who launched the attacks on 9/11 were muslim.  but, they don't represent all muslims. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

Religions don't kill people.  People kill people.  Isn't that the stance all you guys take on guns? - it's not the guns,it's the criminals using them.

Please, organized religion has been the #1 cause of almost every single war in the history of man. Guns are like hammers, they are tools, religion is not a tool or a machine, it is a system of beliefs. Throughout history, people have used those beliefs as excuses to murder, rape, steal and benefit financially. Islam is just the one that blatantly professes it.

Dont ask me to get into my religious beliefs lol. 

[nyantler]

you see Virgil...you need to look up the islam definition of jihad... what you printed is the About.com modern day palatable apologetic spin definition

Jihad is defined by Al Azhar University which is the oldest Islamic University in Cairo over a thousand year…It's a permanent war institution against nonbelievers Jews Christians and Pagans

[nyantler]

here is an interesting bit of info

The history of political Islam is the destruction of Christianity in the Middle East, Egypt, Turkey and North Africa.

Half of Christianity was lost. Before Islam, North Africa was the southern part of Europe (part of the Roman Empire).

Around 60 million Christians were slaughtered during the jihadic conquest. 

Half of the glorious Hindu civilization was annihilated and 80 million Hindus killed. 

The first Western Buddhists were the Greeks descended from Alexander the Great’s army in what is now Afghanistan.

Jihad destroyed all of Buddhism along the silk route.

About 10 million Buddhists died. The conquest of Buddhism is the practical result of pacifism. 

Zoarasterianism was eliminated from Persia. 

The Jews became permanent dhimmis throughout Islam.

In Africa over 120 million Christians and animists have died over the last 1400 years of jihad. 

Approximately 270 million nonbelievers died over the last 1400 years for the glory of political Islam.

[virgil]

i'm not defending islam or any other religion.  my point is that it is wrong to condemn entire groups because of the actions of a small minority of their members.  there are countless examples throughout history of various groups doing horrible things.  the fact is that there are millions upon millions of muslims in the world and there is a very small percentage committing crimes against humanity.  i just think it's dangerous and a bit ignorant to paint with such broad strokes.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

i'm not defending islam or any other religion.  my point is that it is wrong to condemn entire groups because of the actions of a small minority of their members.  there are countless examples throughout history of various groups doing horrible things.  the fact is that there are millions upon millions of muslims in the world and there is a very small percentage committing crimes against humanity.  i just think it's dangerous and a bit ignorant to paint with such broad strokes.

Where are the "millions and millions" that are speaking out and condeming the actions of these few , if they believe the actions are wrong and should not continue. The majority of comments I hear are always tempered. "I don't think what they are doing is right,,,,,BUT The jews should be out of the holy land"...or what ever qualifier you wish to insert. In you comments you often compare their actions to those of other religions from long ago...the crusades and such. This is a different world now, as you are fond of mentioning in the gun control threads to justify how inept the Constitution is. Comparing the actions of a religion in current times with the actions of those of 100's of years ago does not make sense. Actions that were common and acceptabel then are far from that now. does that make them right back then....no....but it is a religion that is rooted and based in a violent nature. Just look at all the other areas of the world where the violence is taking place. Is it all of them...No...but the ones that supposedly are against such actions seem to be very quiet in any opposition.

[virgil]

In you comments you often compare their actions to those of other religions from long ago...the crusades and such.

Culver, are you sure you're not confusing some of my posts with someone else's.  i am not a student of religion and have never posted anything about the 'crusades and such'.

This is a different world now, as you are fond of mentioning in the gun control threads to justify how inept the Constitution is. Comparing the actions of a religion in current times with the actions of those of 100's of years ago does not make sense. Actions that were common and acceptabel then are far from that now.

now, why is it that you can apply this logic to the religion question, but accuse me of disparaging the constitution when i apply it to the gun issue?  i never have and never would call the constitution 'inept'- stop trying to rile everyone up.  why can't you disagree without trying to throw gas on the fire by misrepresenting my words.  i didn't post the descriptions of the actions of any religious groups from years ago- it seems that everyone on this thread knows how to use google.  but, i agree with your point that actions that were acceptable many years ago are not necessarily acceptable now- which is why i feel that it's not unreasonable to consider updating our laws to reflect the current needs of the country today.  why the need to constantly question the patriotism of anyone who has a position different from yours? 

[nyantler]

i'm not defending islam or any other religion.  my point is that it is wrong to condemn entire groups because of the actions of a small minority of their members.  there are countless examples throughout history of various groups doing horrible things.  the fact is that there are millions upon millions of muslims in the world and there is a very small percentage committing crimes against humanity.  i just think it's dangerous and a bit ignorant to paint with such broad strokes.

I' really not trying to be difficult with you virgil but I get a sense that you are younger based on your position and some of your statements... the real danger and ignorance is not realizing whats going on right in front of you... is it just me or is anybody else paying attention to what has been going on on the middle east. Hamas, Hezbollah and the Muslim Brotherhood (all known terrorist support organizations) are taking over the middle east and if people don't wake up to whats happening, especially with the state of our economy right now, we are in big trouble...

[ELMER J. FUDD]

  why the need to constantly question the patriotism of anyone who has a position different from yours?

Big difference between "different" and "AGAINST"....

[nyantler]

very good Elmer.. beat me too the punch

[ELMER J. FUDD]

      I have no problem when someone dislikes or disagrees with another's beliefs, but when someone wants to impose their beliefs and force them via laws on another individual that is minding their own business, that I have a problem with.

  So why don't you anti gun guys come out with it? Why are you sticking up for other people/groups/creeds, yet you are apparently not part of the group you are defending? Why are you afraid of other citizens owning guns, yet calling other forum members "paranoid"? What traumatic event happened in your life involving assault weapons that drives you to want them banned and/or regulated more?

And what's with the kool-aid in the SUNY schools, Albany especially?

[nyantler]

My kid went to Albany and in no way got brainwashed like most of the kool-aid drinkers that are there.. as a matter of fact he found himself alone in defense of common sense many a times at Albany. He is now a fine upstanding young man of 25 .. with a good job and his own home... and he has asked the same thing as you. What is it with all the kool-aid in the SUNY schools?

[Localqdm]

Do not compare Islam and Christianity as equal. 

Islam, from its book to its leaders, encourages and practices murder of the 'infidels', converts to other religions, etc.

Jesus taught to love our enemies, turn the other cheek, give, suffer for him, etc.

A man planned to burn the quran and Muslims were screaming in the streets death to us all.  Yet someone converts to Christianity and they murder him.  Do Christians react by protesting in the streets yelling, "kill all the muslims?"  Not equal. 

Did people torture and kill in the name of Christ in the past, yes.  But by definition they were not followers of Christ (Christians) as they did not emulate the one they claimed to be following. Where abuse happens in the name of Jesus, Christians will be the first to condemn the act.  Where are the millions of Muslims, let alone ONE leader condemning the hate and murder prevalent in Islam today?

People need to wake up and stop defending Islam.  Look at the fruit of Islam in the world today, death, abuse, control, suspicion, devastation.  I do not want the US to become like the countries of the Middle East or Indonesia where Islam is the law of the land.  Christians HOPE others will repent and believe in Christ's death for the forgiveness of their sins, but recognize their freedom and individual accountability to God.  Muslims KILL.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Virgil, I apologize for confusing you with Wildcat. I got lazy and did not go back to check before posting. You two have very similiar approaches to some topics.

You do come across as considering the Constitution 'inept'.  by definition inept would be not suitable to a time place or occassion.  I think that sums up your view of it. I am not trying to rile anyone up, those were your words....not mine. You view the Constitution as a document that can be changed to morror the public attitude.

I find it applicable to use different standards of logic when looking at actions of a religion vs our constitution. one is just that...actions and actions may vary in the period. the Constitution is a fundemental basis for our country and as that basis should not be modified to fill the public whim. When the public view is contrary to an aspect of your life, will you have the same stance. Even if it is something much simpler than a RIGHT. Say you suv or truck is viewed as to fuel inefficient and they feel you must give it up. Homes over 100,000 are extravagant....put an annual 10% tax on them.....single shot guns are just as effective to kill game with...remove anything multishot. Pick something dear to you and have it threatened. Make no mistake, we are a target. how actively they are going after us and how quickly is a point to debate, but no one can say we are not a target.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

My kid went to Albany and in no way got brainwashed like most of the kool-aid drinkers that are there.. as a matter of fact he found himself alone in defense of common sense many a times at Albany. He is now a fine upstanding young man of 25 .. with a good job and his own home... and he has asked the same thing as you. What is it with all the kool-aid in the SUNY schools?

That's relieving to hear. I thought it was just me. My brother went there. He was all defensive of Obama and anti-Bush during the election. Now he is anti government because he can't figure out who to blame. Go figure.   

  It seems like they preach entitlement and exploit political inexperience to influence these students. Many seem to feel they are entitled to a 6 figure salary and a corner office just because they went to college. Little do they know, the work hasn't even started yet. Some have what I call the " I have it all figured out, but I don't know s--t" attitude.

Achievement without accomplishment...It's not right to pump bs opinions into people paying for education.