Lunatic Alert - Cougars Coming?

[Marion]

Ok, ok...I admit it...I am THE mountain lion everyone has been seeing

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[Trial153]

Ok, ok...I admit it...I am THE mountain lion everyone has been seeing

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I have your picture on my trail cam!!

[DirtTime]

5 minutes ago, The Jerkman said:

Ok, ok...I admit it...I am THE mountain lion everyone has been seeing

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Um...........So you weigh about 230, have blond hair, and 38DD? If so I saw you at my local Price Chopper this afternoon. Stop hunting the grocery stores! The g/f was mad at you eying me.

Edited August 11, 2016 by ....rob

[Trial153]

Um...........So you weigh about 230, have blond hair, and 38DD? If so I saw you at my local Price Chopper this afternoon. Stop hunting the grocery stores! The g/f was mad at you eying me.

230? You'd go broke feeding that!

[Doewhacker]

"Migrating mountain lion" Wow lmao

[DirtTime]

10 minutes ago, Trial153 said:

230? You'd go broke feeding that!

Jerkman said he's the cougar/mountain lion we been seeing. I had a 'cougar' stalking me at the grocery store today. I didn't feed it, what are you nuts! The g/f just decided to take up hunting. LOL

[growalot]

I'M  on the kindle right now so I'll keep you guys going tomorrow with links from Southern Onterio ,Canada...you guys in the buffalo area should like that...Yes they were thought to be "extinct".  Their word Phade...Now..not so much...Let's see where did those Coy-wolves originate from???...hmmm...which direction did they go in their "explanation"(Doewacker)?...See you all in the a.m...be prepared...lol

Edited August 11, 2016 by growalot

[Buckmaster7600]

When they get here maybe NY will finally let us carry handguns bow hunting that will be nice.


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[DirtTime]

15 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

When they get here maybe NY will finally let us carry handguns bow hunting that will be nice.


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No No No! No guns in the bow season. To many people would cheat and kill the deer with the gun then stick an arrow in the hole. 

[growalot]

Rob that could happen now...small game and coyote seasons are open during bow.

[Buckmaster7600]

No No No! No guns in the bow season. To many people would cheat and kill the deer with the gun then stick an arrow in the hole. 

You're kidding right?


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[Nomad]

Most bow hunters I've seen , group better with their bow at 40 yards then their handguns .....

Especially small pocket pistols and snubbies that often find there way into a bow hunters pocket or so I'm told .

[DirtTime]

49 minutes ago, ....rob said:

No No No! No guns in the bow season. To many people would cheat and kill the deer with the gun then stick an arrow in the hole. 

It was a joke. A poke at the ML in bow season issue. Geez. Relax people. 

[Buckmaster7600]

It was a joke. A poke at the ML in bow season issue. Geez. Relax people. 

I was pretty sure you were but had to ask. Lol

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[growalot]

OOPPSSS sorry,you do know guys have been caught that have done that though...

[Chef]

So an attack by an unverified animal is your proof that there is a breeding population of cougars in Virginia?

 

Again, I think most people don't have any problem acknowledging the existence of transient cougars...but an established, breeding population is another matter all together.  And there are a whole array of methods used to determine rough estimates of animal populations (field surveys, track analysis, scat analysis, ect.).

 

It would also probably help if you actually provided the sources for those quotes, so we can see where where they came from and whether or not they're valid.

Grow knows this to be a fact because he herself is in fact a cougar that has bread in New York ... Sorry grow I had to it was too easy


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[growalot]

I'm going to leave you with a bit of reading,then I'm done here ...for I have learned that though admittedly it is sometimes fun poking the bear,as it were, I find imparting reason to some, is a futile exercise at best. Look closely at that map. Consider that the exact same thing being said by officials in states east of the Mississippi in the US ,were said here...now really how far is that from NY? rhetorical guys...

http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/11/08/are-cougars-really-extinct-in-ontario-canada/

http://easterncougar.org/pdfs/Cougar evidence in Ontario CFN 2011 125 (2) 116-125rosatte.pdf

[Padre86]

1 hour ago, growalot said:

I'm going to leave you with a bit of reading,then I'm done here ...for I have learned that though admittedly it is sometimes fun poking the bear,as it were, I find imparting reason to some, is a futile exercise at best. Look closely at that map. Consider that the exact same thing being said by officials in states east of the Mississippi in the US ,were said here...now really how far is that from NY? rhetorical guys...

http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/11/08/are-cougars-really-extinct-in-ontario-canada/

http://easterncougar.org/pdfs/Cougar evidence in Ontario CFN 2011 125 (2) 116-125rosatte.pdf

One link is from a website I've never even heard of.  

The other link is a study talking about cougar presence in Onatario, CA, which is not only feasible but also readily acknowledged by many wildlife experts to be likely cougar habitat due to the remote nature of much of that province.

Cougars re-establishing themselves in NY and parts of the eastern US is a whole other matter...the simple fact is the eastern US just doesn't have the expansive, remote wilderness tracts that exists out west or up north in Canada (with a few exceptions).  Cougars coming into the east, have a lot more roads, farms, suburban sprawl to deal with, and with that, there is a much greater potential for conflict with humans.  Again, I'm not saying that cougars won't ever make their way back into the eastern US....I just don't think that process will happen as quickly as you seem to want it to.

 

Also, I again ask you: what is your proof that there is a breeding population of cougars in Virginia?  

Edited August 12, 2016 by Padre86

[growalot]

Quote

So what it's a web page YOU never heard of., I said in previous post look carefully at the map

 Last I looked CA stands for California. That second link does not say it's due to the remoteness or wild expanse of the Providence. The map of Ontario CANADA clearly shows a concentration of sightings in populated areas ..not all that far from NYS

Again I read many different articles and web pages I don't write them all down. I do stand by  reading an official, stating the possibility of a small breeding population in Virginia, which you seem to be hung up on. You can show me where I gave a specific time line .Other than sooner than you think, as to one being here.

I put those links up so people can read and make their own conclusions. I find it interesting your attempt to discredit them...lol

Edited August 12, 2016 by growalot

[eagle rider]

We got a lot of cougars on LI,... mostly prowl bars at night looking for young bucks.  But lions, we'll that will be one hell of a s*@t show in the woods.  The Empire States can't figure out if they want us to shoot feral hogs when we see them.... What kind of a mess will this become if it ever comes to pass (which I severely doubt).  

[Padre86]

22 minutes ago, growalot said:

So what it's a web page YOU never heard of., I said in previous post look carefully at the map

 Last I looked CA stands for California. That second link does not say it's due to the remoteness or wild expanse of the Providence. The map of Ontario CANADA clearly shows a concentration of sightings in populated areas ..not all that far from NYS

Again I read many different articles and web pages I don't write them all down. I do stand by  reading an official, stating the possibility of a small breeding population in Virginia, which you seem to be hung up on. You can show me where I gave a specific time line .Other than sooner than you think, as to one being here.

I put those links up so people can read and make their own conclusions. I find it interesting your attempt to discredit them...lol

That map you provided came from where exactly?  I know it was in the website that you linked, but where did the website get it from?  Do you have a source for that?  Or are you just relying on it, without really caring about its origins and credibility?  Kind of like your unsubstantiated claim that there is breeding population of cougars in Virginia...anyone else see a pattern developing here?

 

The map's listed sightings don't exactly match the map provided in the study done by  Rosatte, which at least has some semblance of being a peer-reviewed, academic paper.  Moreover, the map seems to be counting a wide variety of supposed sign to be indications of Cougars: sightings, tracks, scat, and vocalization....really?  Vocalizations are now definitive signs of Cougar presence?  How is that even being verified, especially considering the random Joe's who were calling and reporting these so-called "sightings?"

 

So, yes, I have have a serious doubt towards that map's validity.  It's lists vague sources like: a 3rd party "Puma" organization and regional police departments, which makes it difficult for others to spot-check and verify these "sightings."  Moreover, having driven through Ontario, CA (CA also stands for Canada), the heavy concentration of cougar sightings in southern Ontario versus the north, seems illogical, given that southern Ontario has more roads, towns, suburban sprawl versus the northern part...I don't find it unreasonable to believe that there are cougars in the remote areas, like Algonquin and Lake Superior Provincial Parks, and all the surrounding crown land...but I do have a hard time believing that cougars are in abundance in the Toronto and Niagara Falls area, at least to the extent that this map is suggesting that they are. 

And how many of these "sightings" are being reported by actual hunters versus confused and naive wildlife enthusiasts?  Ontario is a big hunting province; if there was much of a cougar presence around the Toronto area, you'd think there'd be a lot more hunters getting pictures, bringing in scat samples, ect.  Again, not saying there aren't any transients moving through that area, but a resident, breedin population seems unlikely. 

Edited August 12, 2016 by Padre86

[growalot]

It tells on the map exactly where the data came from...give your self a rest...

[Padre86]

7 minutes ago, growalot said:

It tells on the map exactly where the data came from...give your self a rest...

Right, so 'regional police departments' is a reference book I can go look up somewhere to verify these "sightings?"

And the Ontario Puma Foundation is considered a neutral, unbiased source?  It seems to me they are just jumping at the bit as much as you are to declare that cougars are everywhere.

Your other source, the paper by Rosatte seems to be a bit more common-sense (as is usually the case with people who follow the scientific evidence to reach a conclusion rather twist the evidence to conform to their pre-formed narrative).  The author even stated that the cougar indications being found in Ontario were likely a result of a combination of immigrant cougars, escapees from captivity and native individuals.  And he also said that, 

Quote

It is difficult to discern whether increasing evidence from sightings is indicative of an expanding or increasing free-ranging population of Cougars in Ontario.   For example, the media can have a great impact on the frequency of reports from the public of possible Cougar sightings (Cougar Management Guidelines Working Group 2005). On Saturday, 19 June 2010, one Ontario newspaper published an article on Cougar research in Ontario by the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources. On Monday, 21 June 2010, 48 media outlets (television, radio, newspaper) covered the same story. This resulted in numerous (>20) members of the public phoning OMNR and the Ontario Puma Foundation on the day of the story to report that they had observed a Cougar that day. Many of those sightings were misidentifications, with reporting being stimulated by the media coverage.  

He's basically saying that increased sightings are not necessarily indicative of increasing cougar range, most especially because not all "sightings" are accurate.  He even called out your rock-solid Ontario Puma Foundation as being part of the problem of over-hyping and over-exaggerating cougar sightings.

 

So maybe you should take the time to read this and other studies before making claims that there is a breeding population in Virginia and that cougars are about to start coming over the border en masse from Canada.

[growalot]

just let people read for them selves......

http://easterncougar.org/pdfs/Cougar evidence in Ontario CFN 2011 125 (2) 116-125rosatte.pdf

[Core]

Selfishly I don't need the competition from a carnivore with claws and night vision that can hunt 365 days/year. I need all the help I can get


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