I'm glutten for punishment

[Pat Rockets]

First i must say please no matter what little your input would be..input it

I mentioned an alternative to AR as permitable feeders owned by the state and only state controlled feed legal to use.

Each feeder set up, supervised by the state could have a no kill radius placed around the feeder to  make it illegal to take deer inside said radius(i suggested 150 yds)

My thoughts were that nurishing the deer will encourage healthy deer both rack and body size. Getting the deer together at the feeder or near by may decrease the take of yearlings by judging it to other deer its with as well as checking that rack to make sure its big enough for your liking.

Baiting?

Well i ask what is a food plot? Mind you i dont disagree with ploting..but what are your intentions for it? Livestock? Human consumption? Wheres your stand according to this plot?

Its hypothetical..i just feel more people could benifit..state included rather than just AR...bow your head when you hear AR

[16. ga hunter]

why not instead of feeders push for the state to promote reforestation projects ie... controled burns& logging of state lands ect to accomplish what you want with the deer heard. Not to mention it would promote better populations of wildlife of all types. in all the states i have lived in ny is the only one that did not have large scale land management programs for thier public holdings.

[nyantler]

it doesn't accomplish what AR is designed to do, so there is no comparison as an alternative to AR... its apples and oranges and serves no real purpose than to make it easier and unsportsmanlike to kill a deer

[SteveB]

it doesn't accomplish what AR is designed to do, so there is no comparison as an alternative to AR... its apples and oranges and serves no real purpose than to make it easier and unsportsmanlike to kill a deer

Plus be impossible to monitor.

And what happens midwinter when a feeder goes unfilled for a few weeks?

Habitat improvements are one thing - artifical, here today gone tomorrow feeding is another, and never a positive for wildlife.

[G-Man]

Pat, I plant 2 different kinds of food plots one for hunting over and another for helping the deer/wildlife thru the winter. my hunting plots are small less than an acre, my other plots are large 5 acres plus. my hunting plots has stands  on the edge of them, my feed plots do not have a stand within 5 acres of them. A food plot may or mayv not draw the deer in for a shot(mostly bow season) where a bait pile brings them into a specfic spot. the dominate deer will chase away the other deer from a bait pile where a large food plot will give easy acess to the entire deer herd. the cost of putting in a large food plot is between 2 and 3 grand. fertilizer, seed, lime, spray to control weeds, not to mention gas time and equipment. baiting would be a in season thing where a food plot will continually feed deer in season and out. Before the ban on feeding deer was placed by the state i fed from deer season end till at least spring green up and some times beyond. i went thru 20 to 30 ton of corn at 10$ a 100 lbs. A food plot creates the same. if not a bigger draw for deer and other wildlife  at a lot less expence and labor. When feeding deer it was nessary to have 4-5 stations to allow the less dominant deer a place to feed as a single dominant doe would chase bucks and doe away from a single feeder.

[Ford]

why not instead of feeders push for the state to promote reforestation projects ie... controled burns& logging of state lands ect to accomplish what you want with the deer heard. Not to mention it would promote better populations of wildlife of all types. in all the states i have lived in ny is the only one that did not have large scale land management programs for thier public holdings.

Now that is the best plan I heard of...

Many of the State lands are old growth, or mid growth...Do not provide enough cover/food for deer and other wildlife to really prosper.

The tree huggers that want no logging/burning of State Land do not realize the benefits to wildlife that it has. (done in a responsible manner of course). Now we put out fires that would have burned thousands of acres at a time...When that was natures way of providing food for all those creatures...

[Pat Rockets]

Bait=any substance used to attract prey

Im thinkin a feeder would work all yr round..and im thinkin bucks establishing dominance is what you want..the biggest buck wins..hes the one you "harvest"..and i also feel every deer would get a turn. G man..im thinking you have a farm..which means you have a large postage stamp..do you let anyone else hunt there.

As far as the burning..the state cant afford a program like that..they need to sell off some chunks for the lot of people who dont own any..

[16. ga hunter]

they could afford a program like that if they looked into and if they upscaled the logging of old growth stands could increase income from sale of wood in south carolina the controled burns are usually done by the local fire dept. at no charge to the state state just tells them where and when to burn.And why should the state sell its public forests ? i see land for sale all the time maytbe not what someone wants to pay for it but it is forsale. i guess that just goes back to being a land of opprotunity not everyone will be capable of owning land ect.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

The burns are something that does need to take place. nature has evolved to require it and stopping that natural process is harmful. We do it because of the danger to our development but it should continue in a controlled way then. I believe there was a case out west where one type of pine tree started to fall off in numbers because the heat from the fires, normal in the wild, were required to crack open the seeds to allow new growth. We are the top of the food chain, and while we should continue our growth, we need to take steps to try to keep the surroundings in as natural of a condition as possible. there are avenues to accomplish this and as shown her with fire departments using it for training, It can be done. We just need folks in positions of power, willing to think outside the box a bit.

On the feeders. I am not sure I would support them. There may be too many willing to utilize them before and in season and not continue. LOL.,....little off topic but it fits I guess. My wife loves to feed the humming birds. I had no idea the harm that can do unless you pay attention to dates. if you provide food and they stay...I guess food pushes their migration.....then the food source has moved further south than they can make if you keep them north too long. I think any supplemental feeding has this potential. if the feeding allows an unnatural popolation size above what the natual food source can maintain....if the supplemental is stopped it could have devestating effects. Is that an extreme example...probably ...but valid in it's context

[G-Man]

Yes, i have a farm of sorts, and yes i have a lot of people hunt with me usually 8 during bow and 10 for gun. More over thanksgiving weekend and upward of 10 for muzzleloader, and yes we all get deer.

[Doc]

I saw one of these QDM shows on TV where they were taking about "controlled burns". It was a pretty interesting program and went into a fair amount of detail describing the benefits and procedures. However, the activity, even on a small parcel, looked anything but cheap. There was a rather large mob of people involved, and some heavy equipment for opening up fire-breaks. Also, it was not without its safety concerns. They had to be very careful about forest conditions and consistancy of wind directions. In other words it is not about touching a match and then going home for dinner  . It seems to be a bit of a time consuming project too, in that they have to go slow for safety reasons. Now if you concider how many acres are under the stewardship of the DEC, and also consider their current financial situation, I don't think you will see much of that sort of activity being done now or in the forseeable future.

Also, I was thinking about the logging activity on state lands. I know this requires a lot of oversight as well with foresters either laying out a plan or monitoring the activity in some fashion. While this can be done and in fact is being done, in a limited fashion, I believe this is another activity that everyone sees as a free activity for the DEC. But I'll bet there is a lot more department manpower and cost involved than what you might think. The good news is that with logging, you do get some money back to help defray the costs of administering the activity. But what I am not sure of is whether the DEC has enough field personel left to plan and oversee logging operations in a significant way.

I'm just saying that it is very likely that all these things that everyone thinks are good ideas (and are great ideas) probably have some pretty good reasons for not getting done. And most of those reasons are probably financial and resource driven.

[sweet old bill]

I lived nest to 7500 acreas of state land for about 15 years. I would see what they call selected cutting of red pine. They would leave all the tops of the pine and after then were done cutting a piece you could not walk thru it. I asked were the funds went, it down to the city in general $$$, no one $$$ go to the area it was cut from and or does the cutter have to reseed to make it into a food plot and or hardwood seeding. They the DEC said the fact that you can not walk thru the area cut is not there interest and after 10 plis years the snow and rail will rot it down so new items ( Brush / Trees ) rebirth

[Pat Rockets]

Nys dec oversees 4 million acres...and if you expect voulentees to burn this its going to take a small army..and its not good if these companies dont have insurance..the liability is too great..and on top of it the state aint makin nothin on it.

Gman...im glad to see your generosity..i hunt in the southern zone(9h) and as far as the eye can see is farmland..but all to  often seasoned hunters are being removed by the increasing greed this sport is generating..i have the luxury of hunting family owned property..but im not self involved..i try  to look at things from different perspectives..or so you may see..i guess my big  problem is the reaction of people to the word bait..on a certain level thats whats happening with the plotting..much like everything...its in  the eye of the beholder.

Antler..you have a knack for saying just enough to  add your pennies...and side stepping the flack questions..how do you see foodplots? Also what would you do when someday your guide and you go to your fav mountain and its peppered with blaze orange because the ordinary day to day any chance hunter gets the boot from their 20 yr spot due to land sales or greedy landowners..ive seen it first hand ..more and more each yr..where should they go

[Doewhacker]

We already have controlled burns, you don't do the whole state in one year. The Native americans did it for a reason you know, it works!

[Pat Rockets]

The natives could afford to lose a t.p. or two...im not sayin it wouldnt work..but ive come to see the thicker the patch..the more i action ill see(thats what she said . If theres no where for the deer to hide..how is  it fair chase...hehehe.

Someone said the feeders couldnt be monitored... i disagree..i feel that would give them a reason to "keep it honest" and thus creating jobs and hopefully getting greater more accurate headcounts..i have nothing to hide and encourage the dec to hang..paid for by the feeder prmits..and purchasing of feeds...just wanted to add that

[Culvercreek hunt club]

The natives could afford to lose a t.p. or two...im not sayin it wouldnt work..but ive come to see the thicker the patch..the more i action ill see(thats what she said . If theres no where for the deer to hide..how is  it fair chase...hehehe.

Someone said the feeders couldnt be monitored... i disagree..i feel that would give them a reason to "keep it honest" and thus creating jobs and hopefully getting greater more accurate headcounts..i have nothing to hide and encourage the dec to hang..paid for by the feeder prmits..and purchasing of feeds...just wanted to add that

How much would you be willing to pay for the annual permit and feed?

[Pat Rockets]

The cost of a foid plot...sounds pricey

[Culvercreek hunt club]

The cost of a foid plot...sounds pricey

I have put in some plots on our lease. ..clover ...seems to be the only crap that grows due to poor clayey soil. Probably ran me $800/acre. not counting putting it in and Maintenance.

$800....how much feed would that buy....i just looked up and sounds like corn goes for $7-8/ 50 lb bag. that is about 5,000 pounds of corn for a year. ...just trying to see how much your feeder plan would cost and how much revenue would be left for the monitoring and enforcement effort? Detail what you are thinking

[Pat Rockets]

Just like a food plot..the amount would vary..if theres 52 weeks multiplied by how much your feeder lets out per day..im thinkin at most  3 bags a week or more...156 bags a yr times 10 a bag lets say 1560...multiplied by 10 000 = 15.5 mil

[arrowflinger]

serves no real purpose than to make it easier and unsportsmanlike to kill a deer

LOL

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Just like a food plot..the amount would vary..if theres 52 weeks multiplied by how much your feeder lets out per day..im thinkin at most  3 bags a week or more...156 bags a yr times 10 a bag lets say 1560...multiplied by 10 000 = 15.5 mil

So let's say the cost to the state for the feed is 6/bag/ that is 4 /bag "profit" that woudl be 6.2 million to implement and enforce and monitor 10,000 sites

[Pat Rockets]

Everyones seeing deer in their yards...cause unless yer usin the snowblower..the deer cant get to your plot..as long as its filled..a feeder will drop feed in the deepest snow..

[Pat Rockets]

Gman..since plotting..have the deer destroyed more..less..or the sam amount of yer crops..thinking about the feeders effecting this as well..

[Doc]

We already have controlled burns, you don't do the whole state in one year. The Native americans did it for a reason you know, it works!

That was going to be one of my next questions. Does anyone know of anyplace in NYS that is engaged in controlled burning. If so, is it state sponsored or a private activity.

I remember way back to the beginning of this forum or perhaps it was even on the old NYS forum when somebody asked about controlled burns, and I don't think anybody had any answers about the legality of such a practice or how an individual might go about legally and safely doing this without being arrested for being a fire-bug  ;D . Also, I don't remember anybody mentioning any state activities involving controlled burns in NY. So I guess that leaves me wondering if controlled burning is really anything that ever does get done here in NYS.

By the way, the practice worked great for the indians because they weren't too concerned about burning their neighbor's house to the ground  .

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Chart of prescribed burns in NY

http://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/42438.html