Donald Trump says he would implement nationwide stop and frisk policy

[Uptown Redneck]

2 hours ago, airedale said:

 

Where are these utopian nations where hard drugs are legal? 

 

Copenhagen

A city without any of the crimes that American cities that have outlawed drugs experience. 

[Core]

3 hours ago, airedale said:

 

Where are these utopian nations where hard drugs are legal? 

Every day, 78 people in the United States die from an opiate overdose — 29 of them from heroin, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. That's more than 10,500 deaths a year attributed to heroin and more than 28,000 deaths from opiate overdoses. 

If the above is happening with just those two drugs, it is not hard for me to imagine what would happen in time if hard drugs were made to be legal and the spigot was turned on.

As for marijuana like cigarettes there is going to be no free lunch smoking that stuff especially long term health wise. Colorado will be a good test to see how legal works out on the crime side.

Portugal. I hate drugs, I never do them. I don't even drink, but things were not as bad as even I would have thought they would be after decriminalizing.

https://www.thefix.com/content/decrim-nation-portugal-ten-years-later

The hard is a harder argument. Legalizing marijuana to me seems a no brainer now. It's certainly no more injurious than alcohol and so many people are in prison over it.

[Core]

1 hour ago, LJC said:

The cops know where the bad guys , gangs hang out in the inercitys  you put stop in frisk in those areas shootings would drop to almost 0  they let those scumbags run Wild in some of these cities like Chicago thats why it's so bad there 

These days I think the ferguson effect is having a real impact. And it's only going to get worse. The message is loud and clear and any cop not paying attention does so at their own risk. That message: if you kill a black man in the line of duty the specifics of the case don't matter; your career may very well be over. You can lower the odds of it happening by 1) Treating people well and 2) Avoiding any kind of an altercation; don't get in a foot chase, stay in your cruiser, arrive to calls a little slower.

[LJC]

34 minutes ago, Uptown Redneck said:

Copenhagen

A city without any of the crimes that American cities that have outlawed drugs experience. 

If the scumbags know they will be searched they will stop bringing guns in the streets and killing each other with guns it's just common sense scumbag 1 carrys a gun because he knows all the other scumbags have them but with stop and frisk they all start living there weapons at home . It's the same reason we have metal detectors in airports . The hood rats  only hang in certain areas the cops no who's who's it's obvious in the bad hoods stop in frisk would definitely help in the inner cities

[LJC]

11 minutes ago, Core said:

These days I think the ferguson effect is having a real impact. And it's only going to get worse. The message is loud and clear and any cop not paying attention does so at their own risk. That message: if you kill a black man in the line of duty the specifics of the case don't matter; your career may very well be over. You can lower the odds of it happening by 1) Treating people well and 2) Avoiding any kind of an altercation; don't get in a foot chase, stay in your cruiser, arrive to calls a little slower.

Basically cops just start looking the other way . Who needs that crap that's why Chicago is so messed up overthere .

Edited September 23, 2016 by LJC

[LJC]

8 hours ago, Uptown Redneck said:

I love it when Little Hitler Trump offers up more of his asinine ideas, it only serves to remind people of just what an idiot he is! Another Trump proposal that will only bring more votes to Hilary.   

Yea I'm sure he is a real idiot that is why he has property company's casinos  all over the world  by being a idiot  

That's definitely a idiot for you 

[The_Field_Ager]

 

[Huntscreek]

16 hours ago, Uptown Redneck said:

Its amazing that when the jackass that Is Trump proposes an outrageous idea his mindless supporters blindly agree with him, no matter how absurd the proposal,  yet had such a proposal come from Hilary's campaign all those here who support it would immediately be calling it unconstitutional, illegal, communist, a complete overreach of government and many other things, some going so far as saying it would be the start of a civil war. Its amazing how blind devotion to a moron allows for people to easily give up the beliefs they have upon numerous occasions claimed to believe in, in this instance removing government from people's lives, yet they have no problem allowing that same government to, without cause, randomly stop and search the public at large.    

Your not ok with putting an end to illegal guns and shootings in Chicago? but you alright with Safe Act. Your ok with restriction's on honest legal gun owners but won't support stopping criminals from having guns. Look at NYC now and before S&F, if used in Chicago it will make it safer and get illegal guns off the streets. Trump is offering options and your offering status Quo. 

[diplomat019]

32 minutes ago, Huntscreek said:

Look at NYC now and before S&F, if used in Chicago it will make it safer and get illegal guns off the streets. 

So lets register all guns so we know where they are at all times.  We can even have monthly checks from the police to make sure they are all accounted for in our homes.   That will stop the flow of illegal guns entering the hands of bad people.  And since we are all responsible and law abiding gun owners we have nothing to hide

Edited September 23, 2016 by diplomat019

[Big John]

Have anyone of us been "stopped and frisked"? Answer NO, why you might ask because we don't look like  or  act like or maybe even known to be a criminal! If you are standing on a street corner with a box of illegal dvds or a cardboard with a bunch of electronics in it for sale and you are already violating a city ordinance you deserve what you get. Don't act like a criminal don't get stopped!

[brownclown]

Those who would give up Essential Liberty
to purchase a little Temporary Safety,
deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

[Huntscreek]

20 minutes ago, diplomat019 said:

So lets register all guns so we know where they are at all times.  We can even have monthly checks from the police to make sure they are all accounted for in our homes.   That will stop the flow of illegal guns entering the hands of bad people.  And since we are all responsible and law abiding gun owners we have nothing to hide

So your answer is take away the constitutional rights of the law abiding. Criminal's are Criminal as illegal is illegal. In these places with high gun crime they have the strictest laws in the Country. So you want more Laws? How about enforce the laws on the books and stop plea bargains.

[LJC]

31 minutes ago, diplomat019 said:

So lets register all guns so we know where they are at all times.  We can even have monthly checks from the police to make sure they are all accounted for in our homes.   That will stop the flow of illegal guns entering the hands of bad people.  And since we are all responsible and law abiding gun owners we have nothing to hide

ARe  you on   drugs  or something criminals don't follow laws that's what makes them a criminal !!!!  We already have law against shooting killing people !! Do criminals follow those ?

All you would be doing is breaking  the balls of  regular citizens. 

 

Edited September 23, 2016 by LJC

[Steuben Jerry]

16 hours ago, Uptown Redneck said:

outlaw the sale and possession of "assault weapons" including any magazine over 6 rounds for a rifle

What's that got to do with stop and frisk? I don't think you have to actually frisk anyone to find they were carrying an AR, they're not very concealable. Will that "fix" the problem in Chicago?

Why do you want to take away legal gun owners rights to a legal firearm?

Edited September 23, 2016 by Steuben Jerry
Grammer

[LJC]

This is how stop and frisk works you only target areas with high crime you don't need to change gun laws bother the average guy . There is no crime gun problem in  all areas most areas in this country   so why bother people there .

You just target areas like parts of Chicago with the worst crime the gang bangers not going anywhere.  It's just common sense but since when did government use that last lol 

[airedale]

Who wants the hassle of having to be stopped and frisked, nobody including myself wants to be stopped and frisked but these inner city shootings-killings have become so pervasive that it is almost normal. Even here in central NY turn on the local evening news and see reports of shootings every other day and this happens all over the country, something has to be done.

There is going to have to be some give somewhere and of all the solutions I have seen to get guns and thugs off the streets stop and frisk is the best idea with the most common sense. I don't like it but I would put up with it to stop this massacre that is going on.

I do not see making drugs legal or banning rifles that hold more than six rounds even putting a small dent in this problem, we are dealing with criminals and they don't much care about the law and they are certainly not going to all come forward and turn in their weapons if drugs are legal or not.

Or just keep the status quo and let em blast away until we end up with cities like the movie "Escape from NY' block them in and let them have at it!

Al

 

 

Edited September 23, 2016 by airedale

[diplomat019]

1 hour ago, Huntscreek said:

Your not ok with putting an end to illegal guns and shootings in Chicago? but you alright with Safe Act. Your ok with restriction's on honest legal gun owners but won't support stopping criminals from having guns. Look at NYC now and before S&F, if used in Chicago it will make it safer and get illegal guns off the streets. Trump is offering options and your offering status Quo. 

True.   If ur standing on the corner with doing that then you are expected to be stopped. What about somebody just walking down the street getting stop? That's where the issue is. The issue isnt with somebody doing something illegal on the corner.  Its with people doing nothing. 

[Core]

10 hours ago, LJC said:

Yea I'm sure he is a real idiot that is why he has property company's casinos  all over the world  by being a idiot  

That's definitely a idiot for you 

I agree with this in general. Trump is a lot of things, a clown, a buffoon, a blow hard. Absolutely all of these. But a dummy he isn't. People keep pointing to his bankruptcies as some indication he's bad at business, but none of those criticizing have a massive jet with their name on the side or sky scrapers with their names on them.

[diplomat019]

1 hour ago, LJC said:

ARe  you on   drugs  or something criminals don't follow laws that's what makes them a criminal !!!!  We already have law against shooting killing people !! Do criminals follow those ?

All you would be doing is breaking  the balls of  regular citizens. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Huntscreek said:

So your answer is take away the constitutional rights of the law abiding. Criminal's are Criminal as illegal is illegal. In these places with high gun crime they have the strictest laws in the Country. So you want more Laws? How about enforce the laws on the books and stop plea bargains.

SO that flew over your heads.  Read any of my posts on the topic.  I was being facetious.  What i said was outlandish right?   Invading the rights if americans for some safety. .  Yet we as gun owners would never allow this.  Yet we are so easy to toss away our other rights for some safety.  Where is the principal?  You cant say "yes you can invade someones right to privacy Cause the way the look but you cant invade my privacy"   Stop and frisk is a violation if our constitutional rights.  End of story.   If you want a police state then we can be safe.  But thats what the bill of rights protects us from. Thats my take.  

Edited September 23, 2016 by diplomat019

[diplomat019]

Lets toss the 4th amendment out the window or we can modify it some more.  Then we can chop up the first and second after that.  Sounds good?  

 

We need some principals here.   The founding fathers were extremely bright.  They Bill of rights is in place for a reason.  We dont need to be stopped and searched for no reason.  This is America baby!!

[airedale]

25 minutes ago, diplomat019 said:

 We dont need to be stopped and searched for no reason.  

Stop and frisk is when police temporarily detain somebody and pat down their outer clothing when there are specific articulable facts leading a reasonable police officer to believe a person is armed and dangerous. It is not necessary for the officer to articulate or identify a specific crime they think is being committed, only that a set of factual circumstances exist that would lead a reasonable officer to have a reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is occurring

[diplomat019]

15 minutes ago, airedale said:

Stop and frisk is when police temporarily detain somebody and pat down their outer clothing when there are specific articulable facts leading a reasonable police officer to believe a person is armed and dangerous. It is not necessary for the officer to articulate or identify a specific crime they think is being committed, only that a set of factual circumstances exist that would lead a reasonable officer to have a reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is occurring

Thats scary to me.  They suspect criminal activity?    What does that mean?   Walking down the street with a bookbag?   Having a trump bumper sticker?   It literally could mean anything.  

[airedale]

Don't scare me in the least because if I am frisked there will be nothing found that is not legal. Regardless I would put up with it if it saves thousands of lives.

Al

Edited September 23, 2016 by airedale

[Core]

37 minutes ago, airedale said:

Don't scare me in the least because if I am frisked there will be nothing found that is not legal. Regardless I would put up with it if it saves thousands of lives.

Al

I would also allow cops to frisk me whenever they want if it saves thousands of lives, but that's not really what the math works out to. On the contrary they would frisk hundreds/thousands (no idea) of people for every life saved.

BTW this is the best article anybody on the planet has ever conceived of as far as why "nothing to hide" (or I've done nothing illegal) is not a compelling argument. Short version: you're probably a criminal even if you don't know it.

Long version: https://www.wired.com/2013/06/why-i-have-nothing-to-hide-is-the-wrong-way-to-think-about-surveillance/

[airedale]

I will stand by stop and frisk as the best common sense method of getting guns out of the hands of thugs and criminals and I also will stand by my statement of not being scared in the least about being stopped and frisked because there will be nothing illegal found when I am frisked. Unless you are up to no good there is no real argument here other than having to put up with some hassle on a method that has been proven to stop crime. It will save lives.

A lot of crabbing about stop and frisk but no one has shown me any better solution to actually getting illegal weapons out of the hands of criminals. I am not against a better idea to help solve this problem, if you have one let's hear it.

 

Al

Edited September 23, 2016 by airedale