First bow - Samick Sage

[left field]

Looking at picking up a trad bow. May or may not use it for hunting. Pretty much everyone says Samick Sage and I'm looking at 3riversarchery, but happy to consider a shop in the Catskills. I pass by Kenco often, but not sure the offer the Sage.

Questions...

I'm 6' 185lbs - what weight limbs. I'm thinking #45 would get me the ability to shoot for an afternoon without burning out but could be used to hunt as well.

My guess is that the included string is not great. They offer a 58" flemish twist for an additional $19. Worth it at this point?

The other option is a rest. Bear Hair rest and plate. Should I stick with these go to an elevated rest?

They also offer set up for $15, but as near as I can tell that's set the brace height (seems simple enough), glue down rest (my gluing skills were perfected in the third grade) and set the nock. While I don't have nocking pliers, this seems easy as well.

The biggest question would be arrows. No idea where to start.

Any and all advice appreciated. 

 

[moog5050]

If you are just starting shooting a recurve, I suggest starting with a weight you can easily dominate.   30lbs is typical for a grown man.   Later you can buy limbs in heavier weight as you progress.   Learn first then get hunting limbs IMO.   Samick is a good bow but the stock string is horrible   

Have Steve B on this site make the string (mountain muffler strings).  They are simply the best.  

Starting with an elevated bear weather rest is probably a good idea   Much easier to get decent flight until your form is good   Then you can shoot off shelf if you prefer.

If you start with 30lbs, I would suggest full length 600 spine for practice   It will take some trial and error to figure out point weight but likely between 125-200g.   If you stick with 45lbs either 500 or 400 spine will work depending on point weight.

For a bit more, you may want to pick up an ilf riser and limbs but it may be more complicated than necessary starting out.

all just my opinion.  

[moog5050]

Also watch some Joel Turner and Rod Jenkins videos online.  Great teachers.  Masters of the barebow 3 is a very good watch also.   

[left field]

Thanks, moog. Clearly, I'm going to have to give this more thought.

Is a 45# bow that hard to pull? I guess I could get the 30# and trade up once I have my form down. Impatient.

I'll check out mountain muffler strings. Happy to use a member.

I may need to go to a shop to figure out the best arrow. While there is I was to look at an ILF system what do you suggest for a novice? Any shop recommendations? 

I'll check out the videos. have watched The Push a few times. Lots of info to digest.

 

Edited March 4, 2017 by left field

[grampy]

I'll be following this thread too. I made my first bow kill with a recurve. And I think maybe I'd like to make my last bow kill with a recurve, to come full circle. Problem is I have bad shoulders. And will need a recurve, that I will be able to draw and be strong enough to take a deer. Moog will be my go to guy for advice as well!

[growalot]

My first bow was a 45# recurve. Kodiak bear,took my first bow buck 7pt. the following year. I was 5'6" at the time . Never mind the weight 36 yr. old woman. I Had no problem drawing and holding my draw. Holding my draw for as long as I can before shooting Is still part of my practice sessions. Enjoy whatever you choose.

[left field]

Am I correct that 45# is the legal minimum for hunting?

[moog5050]

Until you get your form down where you are in great alignment and using your back to pull, 45lbs is a lot to get to full draw and hold.  Not saying this to brag, but I am about as strong as they come holding all the super heavy powerlifting records in NY and I started with 50lbs on a short bow.  Big mistake.   Only lengthened my learning curve to shoot properly.  It's pretty easy to snap shoot with that weight even when you start but I don't believe you will reach your full potential shooting like that. Some may disagree.    

If I recall correctly, in the Push, the archer uses a fixed crawl.  Works great for hunting distances as it puts the arrow tip on the deer.  Easy to aim.  But it's tougher to tune and requires a longer bow - 66" or longer is better.   The samick sage is only 62" and not the best for fixed crawl.  It will be loud and out of tune on a crawl   That's where ilf shines as you can adjust tiller as needed.

Not many shops specialize in bare bow or traditional archery.   I don't know of any in NY.  3 Rivers and Lancaster are good. 

Take your time researching.  Check out tradtalk and the trad archery sub forum on archery talk. There are some knowledgeable people there and some not as knowledgeable that still give advice so you need to weed it out. 

I am far from an expert but happy to help if I can.  I shoot a recurve every day and really enjoy the challenge.   I am now at least confident enough that if a deer is in range (30yds or less) I can make a good shot. 

Start light and you will learn to shoot well.  Then heavier weight will be easier.  

Edited March 4, 2017 by moog5050

[moog5050]

35lbs is minimum for hunting big game. 

[moog5050]

49 minutes ago, grampy said:

I'll be following this thread too. I made my first bow kill with a recurve. And I think maybe I'd like to make my last bow kill with a recurve, to come full circle. Problem is I have bad shoulders. And will need a recurve, that I will be able to draw and be strong enough to take a deer. Moog will be my go to guy for advice as well!

 No doubt you could do it Grampy.  Many of the newer bows are much more efficient.  I.e. Now there are 40lb bows that can shoot an arrow as hard as 60lb bows of years past. Plus, when you get correct alignment, the weight is all on your skeletal frame and very little muscle is needed.  Learning on a light bow really helps to get that form down.  

[moog5050]

57 minutes ago, growalot said:

My first bow was a 45# recurve. Kodiak bear,took my first bow buck 7pt. the following year. I was 5'6" at the time . Never mind the weight 36 yr. old woman. I Had no problem drawing and holding my draw. Holding my draw for as long as I can before shooting Is still part of my practice sessions. Enjoy whatever you choose.

Grow it's great that you were successful starting with that bow but I can assure you that no traditional archery coach would recommend starting with a 45lb bow - male or female.  If you have to strain to hold the bow than you can't focus on the form.  And I say that knowing that I can draw a bow much heavier than most.  It's still not the best to learn good form.  

Not looking to argue, I would just hate to see someone starting out led in the wrong direction.   There is a reason that competitive archers shoot lighter weights.  And it's not because they are weaklings.  

Edited March 4, 2017 by moog5050

[growalot]

I Never had to strain and my archery guy ,Ray Tolner owned his own shop,was a competition shooter that traveled across the country and was old enough to have shot with Fred bear. His shop was in Wayland NY.

He taught me proper form , custom made my arrows and set up my bow for proper shooting, 3 under. I can't speak to what is or isn't, should or shouldn't, be easy for others. He asked a question and I answered with my personal experience. No argument nor assumptions here. one of the Archery magazines printed a Call out thank you piece I wrote about his guidance and my appriciation...Can't recall the issue at the moment but was late 1990's as I recall. ...BTW God bless Ray...I miss our chats....

Ohhhh...Google him...he won the NYS archery competitions several times.

Edited March 4, 2017 by growalot

[moog5050]

Left field, join tradtalk and ask guys like John Demmer (currently one of the best in the world in barebow) or contact Rod Jenkins or Joel Turner.   All are the very best at what they do and more than willing to help guide a new trad archer.   Feel free to PM me if you want more info.   It is a blast.  Enjoy the ride.  

[left field]

Thanks, moog. I was hoping to avoid going down the rabbit hole of a specialty forum like tradtalk as I know I'll get caught up in analysis paralysis and never make a decision. That's why I like this forum - large and experienced enough to get valued advice, but small enough to not be overwhelmed.

I was intrigued the Sage as it came up so many times as the beginner bow. Price is right as well. But I'll look around. I assume the ILF system give me maximum options and configurations.  

By the way, split finger or three under? Personal preference or an advantage for certain shooting styles?  

[Lawdwaz]

5 hours ago, growalot said:

I Never had to strain and my archery guy ,Ray Tolner owned his own shop,was a competition shooter that traveled across the country and was old enough to have shot with Fred bear. His shop was in Wayland NY.

 

Did he own the Tackle Shack?  As a young hoodlum, my friend Steve and I would beg somebody/ANYBODY to take us to the Tackle Shack back in the 70's.............Good memories!!

[ATbuckhunter]

When do you plan on buying it? I can bring you to my Archery club in Suffolk county and ask if you can shoot some of their bows before one of our shoots. That way you can have an idea of what you can and cant shoot. Many of them also have spare bows that they wouldnt mind selling for a good price.

[growalot]

I don't know I met him back in 77 when I lived in Perkinsville and went to Alfred. Then they owned and his wife was the cook for their restaurant the Blue Goose. Pretty good food. His archery shop was right next door to "Tell em where you got it" tackle and gun shop. He was a character but a great and generous guy..excellent hunter.

Edited March 4, 2017 by growalot

[Lawdwaz]

13 minutes ago, growalot said:

I don't know I met him back in 77 when I lived in Perkinsville and went to Alfred. Then they owned and his wife was the cook for their restaurant the Blue Goose. Pretty good food. His archery shop was right next door to "Tell em where you got it" tackle and gun shop. He was a character but a great and intolerable guy..excellent hunter.

Hmmm the only name there that might ring a bell was the Blue Goose but I can't be sure.

Among other things that I have that are short, my memory ranks up at the top.  Purty sure on that Tackle Shack though...........How about the Red & White in Springwater?

(to the OP, just tryingto keep your thread from getting lost in the heavy debate today/tonight on the forum.   )

Edited March 4, 2017 by Lawdwaz

[moog5050]

1 hour ago, left field said:

Thanks, moog. I was hoping to avoid going down the rabbit hole of a specialty forum like tradtalk as I know I'll get caught up in analysis paralysis and never make a decision. That's why I like this forum - large and experienced enough to get valued advice, but small enough to not be overwhelmed.

I was intrigued the Sage as it came up so many times as the beginner bow. Price is right as well. But I'll look around. I assume the ILF system give me maximum options and configurations.  

By the way, split finger or three under? Personal preference or an advantage for certain shooting styles?  

Nothing wrong with the samick.  Just not ideal for a fixed crawl.   Still a solid bow.  I think buckmaster7600 shoots one. I shoot 3 under.   All personal preference but 99 perceht of guys that compete in barebow shoot 3 under because it brings the arrow tip much closer to the target.  If you plan on using the arrow to aim, and most do, 3 under is the better option.  If I shoot split, the arrow hits so high on the target at 20yds that the sight window on my bows blocks it out.

 

pm me and I will shoot you my number if you want to talk by phone. 

[growalot]

I Have never heard of the red and white...BTW ..tell em  where you got it moved.  They are now located on the road between Wayland and Atlanta...about 2/3 to a mile past the troopers barracks and Sure fine on the rt. side. It's also the redemption center now. It's where I buy my Brenekes.

[Lawdwaz]

20 minutes ago, growalot said:

I Have never heard of the red and white...BTW ..tell em  where you got it moved.  They are now located on the road between Wayland and Atlanta...about 2/3 to a mile past the troopers barracks and Sure fine on the rt. side. It's also the redemption center now. It's where I buy my Brenekes.

Red & White was a super market

[growalot]

I remember they had a corner grocery store /deli  at the 2 Dr 15 intersection years ago. The post office now, also more than a few bars.

[stubborn1VT]

Three under also has the advantage of less contact with the nock.  I switched a couple years back to prevent "string pinch" while shooting a shorter bow.  I've shot both methods, and both work, but 3 under seems to have a number of advantages IMO.

[tommyc50]

hi i bought the samick sage from three rivers archery it was the best thing i did i have alot of fun with that bow the only thing i bought the package man was the stuff they sent me was crap i had my pro shop out fit me with better equipment like the glove was junk and the silencers where junk too a i originally bought 60# limbs with the intent to hunt with the bow well let me tell you that was a mistake i bought 50# limbs after the fact i know you 'll have fun with it too just let your pro shop out fit you with the right arrows oh also the bow string was junk too i bought a better one from my pro shop good luck

[left field]

Thanks, tommy.

I went to a talk at The Explorers Club last night on the Watha, a Kenyan tribe whose culture is centered around hunting elephants with bows. The speaker had a number of bows which he had tested at 100# of pull. Damn, I'm weak.