petersons honorable mention of qdm

[Pat Rockets]

Thats just it..i dont hunt for antlers..that is a bonus..but ill be dammed if im gonna let the state slap a restriction on everyone..if we could keep people honest..it may work..maybe not..some bucks dont get that big..ive had the privilage fo 30+ yrs of living and watching this fact on our family property..never managed..however an erie county record buck came outta here..

Ill never hunt state land..for me theres no need. Im a blue collar hunter..i go to work..come home and get to the woods..also hunt weekends if the kids and honey do list is in order..theres no dream season..i know this is how its gonna be..and i dont complain..

Like i say..i got turned into a black sheep by the local record holder(garage full of antlers, all sizes) for taking a deer that would have passed a restriction..still not happy? Maybe cause he got skunked..idk

[Pat Rockets]

New pole^

[Doc]

So today I bought the magazine and read the article. I must say that the article was not nearly as controversial as the internet synopsis tried to be. Basically the editor went through descriptions of a series of highly managed hunts on highly managed properties where he was basically super-restricted on what deer were allowed to be shot. He was lamenting how difficult it was to feel comfortable that he was abiding by the ranch owner's instructions because of difficulties in aging deer and estimating scores. He also ran through a hunt in Texas where the specs on the deer that were eligible to kill was almost like a slot limit and was crazy complicated. Kind of like, "If the deer has this number of points and this kind of spread and is this age, you can shoot him. But if he has this other number of points, it has to have this other age". It was so complicated that even written down it was hard to follow .... lol. This left him in a circumstance were he was real nervous about shooting anything at all and it was spoiling his enjoyment of the hunt.

Then there was a description of another QDM ranch hunt where the limits were so restrictive that none of the guests there were actually harvesting anything, but surrounding farms were doing just fine knocking off some rather respectible deer.

For him all this was kind of taking a lot of the relaxation and pleasure out of those kinds of hunts. Most of the situations he was describing were circumstances where the ranch owners were setting standards that pretty much were unreasonable for the deer populations available, and I suspect way beyond anything that most hunters (even QDM fans) would consider fitting for the circumstances. I don't think it was all that controversial and turned out to be a whine about places that have gone way too far and over the edge without the quality of bucks to back up their demands.

When I was finished reading the article I was left with one solution ....... Do your homework and start picking out better places to hunt that don't pose these kinds of problems for you. Nothing controversial about that. Don't like the rules...don't hunt there. Of course being an editor of a national hunting mag, I suppose these hunts were probably all offered free-gratis. That's a problem that I have a hard time relating to....lol.

Doc

[Pat Rockets]

But ya forgot the part where the kid shot a 10 pt that didnt meet requirements..and was about to be ripped on for it..these places started at the bottom like were at right now..deer management has developed into that..whats to say it wouldnt happen here...just sayin

[Four Season Whitetail's]

For me qdm is not a issue of number of points or spread of the deer or even the score.To me the deer needs to be mature.If you let them get to that point all the rest will fall in place.I have taken a 5 yr old and he was only an 8pt.He was barrel chest,huge body and massive neck.He didnt score squat but man was he a site to see.Its all about choice i guess but if anyone out there that has not shot a mature buck,finally does..They will be hooked on qdm.

[G-Man]

Shooting a mature buck is a kick but that is trophy deer management, now if you told me you shot 2 mature doe, passed a few yearlings,saw a good buck but to far away, and it was awesome, i would say your practicing qdm! The thing i got from the article is that qdm is now known as trophy deer management. And because of the horn size craze what should be a fun/enjoyable time hunting has turned into stressful work trying to measure up to what you feel meets the standards. So in that sence i do not like ar's and feel that everyone should only compete with the game they are after. And like doc infers if your looking for big bucks find where they are and hunt them there! don't try to make an area a trophy area by forcing rules/ regs on others.

[Doc]

But ya forgot the part where the kid shot a 10 pt that didnt meet requirements..and was about to be ripped on for it..these places started at the bottom like were at right now..deer management has developed into that..whats to say it wouldnt happen here...just sayin

Yup he threw one of those in there too. However, that still was not what I would call controversial. I feel pretty sure that even the most rabid QDM'ers would have to say that ragging on a kid about the quality of his first deer is pretty far over the line. Also it should be noted that it was only one hunter that started that nonsense and once the author stepped in, the rest were quick to offer words of congratulations to the kid.

I don't know whether that crazy, over-the-top QDM stuff will ever become standard fare here or anywhere else. I'm thinking the ones that get real stupid about it all will eventually find themselves hunting alone, and in the case of commercial hunting ventures will find themselves without customers. I don't know that I will ever find out because when it comes to whitetail, I don't pay to hunt. At any rate, when I start listing all the things that are serious threats to hunting, QDM is way down at the bottom of the list in a nearly insignificant ranking. What ever hunting rules that private landowers decide to put on their land is entirely their business. If the state ever starts getting involved in such things (fat chance) that will be a whole different situation. Lol.... I suspect I'll be dead and buried before that ever happens.

[Doc]

For me qdm is not a issue of number of points or spread of the deer or even the score.To me the deer needs to be mature.If you let them get to that point all the rest will fall in place.I have taken a 5 yr old and he was only an 8pt.He was barrel chest,huge body and massive neck.He didnt score squat but man was he a site to see.Its all about choice i guess but if anyone out there that has not shot a mature buck,finally does..They will be hooked on qdm.

While it is true that Antler Restrictions is not all of what QDM is all about, antlered buck management is one major part of the tenets of QDM. And yes, various styles of antler restrictions are given a fair amount of print on their web-site. AR is a practical shortcut to defining maturity for those that are not expert (or for those that think they are expert but aren't)  at using other body features to determine an age distinction. I think it is generally accepted that it's not always accurate.

[nyantler]

Thats just it..i dont hunt for antlers..that is a bonus..but ill be dammed if im gonna let the state slap a restriction on everyone..if we could keep people honest..it may work..maybe not..some bucks dont get that big..ive had the privilage fo 30+ yrs of living and watching this fact on our family property..never managed..however an erie county record buck came outta here..

Ill never hunt state land..for me theres no need. Im a blue collar hunter..i go to work..come home and get to the woods..also hunt weekends if the kids and honey do list is in order..theres no dream season..i know this is how its gonna be..and i dont complain..

Like i say..i got turned into a black sheep by the local record holder(garage full of antlers, all sizes) for taking a deer that would have passed a restriction..still not happy? Maybe cause he got skunked..idk

I will say that I have yet to hear you complain about the lack of deer you see... I will also say that other than the "I feed my family" BS you are pretty straight about why you hunt like you do.. I can respect that

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Thats just it.Not all MATURE deer are TROPHY deer.In my world a mature deer is a trophy deer..Buck or doe..I dont think twice about taking a doe or 3 for the freezer.no matter the age as we have plenty every year aqnd they just kep coming.On the other hand i cant say that about mature bucks as everyone knows those fellas like to roam and if they are off our 700 acres then they are fair game.You see qdm is not the same for everyone as you say.A trophy in the word i guess would be something that makes the book.A mature deer is one that has lived and learned for say 3 or 4 years and went nocturnal untill the wrong day and it just happens on that day i did my homework,learned where he was hangin his rack and then went in there and took him.To each there own but at this stage of my life if a deer is not mature(buck or doe) its way to easy. There are those that only hunt 1 or 2 days or only have a couple acres and they shoot anything.Thats ok with me but thats not for me....

[Nomad]

Here's what I see. Myself and many hunters I know now hunt "qdm" land, except in all but one case its not really qdm just AR's . But they all say "ya we do qdm here." From what I've seen its caused more hard feelings and driven more from hunting then any to other thing .

More farms leasing to 2-or 3 guys to "manage the land for qdm" and kicking off 6,8 locals who then try to find a piece of ever shrinking land to hunt . One guy I know with deep pockets and a lust for qdm and big bucks even leases land around his just to keep hunters off it, he DOES NOT hunt it just wants to keep others further away from his deer.... more guys displaced by qdm .

I know a couple guys who hunted with the same group on qdm (AR) land for years , then a son reaches age to hunt. It took much arm twisting to let him get the ok to take a lesser buck. The next year the kid still in high school is told no, he already got his one small buck,never mind these guys shot all shot young deer for years . He would be very happy to shoot a basket, and any kid in high school,what with sports, heavy homework  load, clubs, vollenteering, senior projects and so forth does not have much time to hunt. That does not do much for recruitment of young hunters. Then when the go to college they might have a couple days over Thanksgiving to get it done, and he or she is faced with a being a young hunter trying to kill a mature buck a week into the season in 2 days.

Lets not forget the old either. One guy i know thought it would be nice to get his dad (about 75) back out for a hunt. The son hunts qdm(ar) land and explained things to his dad,well the dad shot a buck not quite up to the standard and was ripped a new one by the other "hunters". More friendships torn apart in the quest for big antlers above memories. That should have been something that camped talked about around campfires for years.  "  remember when your dad, came here and after not hunting for ten years killed the 6 down by the stream? " That was his last deer wasn't it ?

Instead it almost came to blows.

3 guys who hunted with me,had little time to hunt,they are life long hunters and are happy if they can shoot any buck in the limited time they have. If they could get one opening day, they were happy, oh sure  they would try to go out a couple more times for fun if time allowed. Then the farm put in AR's two no longer hunt and the 3rd is looking to buy land so he can shoot what he wants.

I see qdm as a road block for many hunters, it works for me as I got tons of free time and tons of land , just hate see losing all the others to rules and lust .

[G-Man]

Yeah i hear stories about that all the time its sad really that a deer could ruin a friendship. Had a frind get a pope n young 10pt off my land a few years back when we went to a club meeting and he was showing the pictures off i had several club members pull me aside and say guess you won't be letting him hut your place anymore and they were serious! I told them i didn't invite himup to hunt with me not to shoot a deer, and i hope he shoots the next world record off my place! I am fortunate to own my own land and get a few good bucks off it myself. Had my uncle who doesn't hunt with me tell me i should put in ar's so i could get a big one every year! I like the guys i hunt with  and even had one of them tell me i should put ar's in place to get big ones all the time, i told him i could do that and get one every year but he,his brother,and father, not to mention 3 or 4 other friends would probably not be allowed to hunt there as less pressure would lead to better hunting....seemed to stop the ar talk... I let the people i hunt with decide what they want to shoot, i do send them pics of the better bucks i have on trail cam so if they decide they want to hold out for a better buck they know what is out there. Seems to work for us and everone remains happy and friends.

[Doc]

These last two replies from Larry302 and G-Man are exactly what I figured that article was going to be about. Those guys put into words the main problem I have always had with a lot of directions that hunting has gone. I do know landowners that have gone off the deep end with their fanaticism and have basically driven away their former hunting partners and discouraged any new ones, and maintain hunting lands that are sinply under-hunted because of the hoarding attitudes and desire to have all hunting on their land done according to their very limited restrictions. The super possessive attitudes that go along with all their efforts to groom and manicure their herd and habitat kind of feeds that need to empty their lands of competing hunters. I have to support that kind of thing because I am a confirmed believer in the supremacy of landowner rights and the need to protect a landowner's right to place whatever restrictions on that property that he wants. But when I place all that up against what is good for hunting, I've got to say that I do not see it all as pro-hunting activity.

Doc

[nyantler]

I have a slightly different take on things.. if as a landowner I decide I want to place an AR on deer taken off my land.. that would be my right... those who hunted there prior to the AR would still be welcome to hunt there under the new rule... if they chooe to quit hunting instead that becomes their problem .. not the land owners.. If the other hunter truly like to hunt and want to hunt then they will learn to abide by the new rule...or YES they will have to find another place to hunt. But they are making that choice.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Thats the good thing about owning your own land.You can pretty much say what goes on with it.I guess i am one of the lucky ones as all of the guys that hunt on my land has no problem with the rules in place.Either that or they just dont say anything but they keep comin back and they sure have a big smile on their face when they shoot a mature deer.I am not sure about this poll that is here.I dont think anyone should have to hunt to feed their families.If that is the case mabey they should'nt have computers and internet to answer that question.My family likes venison and some fish but its kinda a treat not a matter of eating or not.

[erussell]

From QDMA web page article

Quality Deer Management helps correct this imbalance by protecting young bucks and allowing them to survive into the older age classes. Quality Deer Management isn’t about protecting bucks until they are 5.5yrs old – that’s trophy management. Quality Deer Management, in simplest terms is about protecting yearling bucks. Yearling bucks are the easiest adult deer to harvest, but if hunters pass them and allow them to reach 2.5yrs, they become a little smarter and some will avoid hunters and reach 3.5yrs. Some of those will then avoid hunters and reach 4.5yrs, etc. Pretty soon you end up with a deer population that has bucks in multiple age classes even while allowing bucks 2.5yrs and older to be harvested. A complete age structure is good for deer and great for hunters

There seems to be some misinformation going around as to what QDM entails. What most people seem to have a problem with is really Trophy management and NOT QDM. Would suggest going to the QDMA web page and reading up about what true QDM really is. (Notice the even while allowing 2.5 yr old bucks to be harvested)

good article on the difference between the three

http://www.whitetailstewards.com/articlesonsite/deerpopulationmanage/deermanagementstrategies.htm

[Pat Rockets]

Hey 4 season...ever stop n think maybe thats how i can afford nicer things?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Since it is realy only my father, may daughter and myself tat eat it.....I don't hunt for food.....I hunt...the bounty is a bonus and it sure feeds the guys well at camp and keeps the grocery bil down.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Rocket if a couple deer a year saves you that much..You are doin good.Im not sure i buy into it but hey if it works for ya keep on keepin on.

[Pat Rockets]

Ieat for free..process myself..and if its a buck..euro mount myself..tune my own bow..etc

[Doewhacker]

I already did the math for you earlier, taking two or three deer does offer a savings provided you don't spend a butt load on hunting. Me for example, I don't run out and buy the newest most expeansive stuff every year, so most years it cost's me the price of a license and gas to and from my hunting location. By no stretch of the imagination do I need to get meat to survive but it sure doesn't hurt things and I sure do love the meat alot. For me the meat deer provide is one of the main reasons I go every year.

[Pat Rockets]

In ny yer allowed more than that..are you surprised on the  outcome of that poll so far antler?

[nyantler]

not at all.. I still don't buy that people need to hunt to feed their family... and meat hunting has nothing to do with passing on small bucks.. other than an excuse that guys use to do so...If I gave you all my deer that I kill for your family I'm sure you would still shoot a small buck... so the truth is that you just want to be able to kill small bucks... thats honest and I respect that... but to say you don't pass on small bucks because you meat hunt is BS and not really the true reason guys don't pass on them.

[nyantler]

No matter what you think.. passing on small bucks is better for the age structure of whitetail bucks.. whether hunters choose to do so is their choice... I'm ok with that... but when asked my opinion I would say that I would prefer that hunters pass on yearling bucks... but either way doesn't make any difference in my personal hunting experience and I certainly do not lose any sleep over it.

[Pat Rockets]

Ahh i see...so why is it you hunt there beefcake..cause if you need a trophy you could go bowling..if yer lookin for antlers go shed hunting..you should totally  buy into "guys like me" cause i could give 2 dumps if i come up with antlers..and thats good for your buisness..i have passed on big deer..not cause im waitin for bigger..but due to bad shot placements..too close to dark..or just plain old too far..

I love egos like yours..you make it easy for people like me to consistantly fill my freezer..im gonna say that your on the cusp of unethicality with your antler desires..you preach qdm..but you live ar..

Your a mountain hunter...congrats! Like i said before ..i pass on more all around deer than you see all yr..all around..even on my postage stamp..its tough to just get into my stand without getting busted..and im not talkin seein tails in the distance..but practically getting ran over..

One of your favotite things to say is move if you dont like it..i do like it..why dont you go outta state if you dont like it cause the only people bitchin are the ones who aint gettin  their way...also its holdouts like you that are the reason nys gives out a possible 8 tags a yr!..what the hell for..unless they are all getten eaten...or the fact that the population is spiraling outta control..

In your eyes i havnt hunted long..but i have my trophies..my favorite is the first buck i got..a 6 pt..mounted it myself and its the centerpiece of the rest. I take pride in one shot takedowns..respect for lands and their caretakers..and the gift of food..which continues all yr long and stretches beyond myself..the ol lady could care less about the trophies but loves a well put together meal of venison prepared by a self proclaimed master chef..

Odviously all opinion..however ..it takes a big man to understand why people do what they do..you have a  reputation to keep..ive seen your kind..id pat ya on the back..if i cared..

All hail the antler...good name..says it all