Meat or Antlers

[Five Seasons]

18 minutes ago, chrisw said:

I think your spot on. Coyotes are inedible trophies and I bet only about 5% of hunters target them, so it seems the "edible" part is a major factor and arguably the primary. I wonder if coyotes grew antlers if the percentage would change at all....

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and how many of those 5% target them because they believe it will improve their turkey and deer populations by doing so? 

[chrisw]

and how many of those 5% target them because they believe it will improve their turkey and deer populations by doing so? 

Who knows? Who cares honestly? How many people hunt deer to protect their crops? The point is generally speaking we are out there shooting deer for venison, but somewhere in all of us we want a big rack because that's what celebrity shows and magazines and social media puts the emphasis on so naturally we are drawn to it. Let's say all 5% do it for the reason you mentioned, how many % of hunters complain about a "low" deer and turkey population yet do not partake in any effort to control predators? Exponentially more, why? Because there's not as much of a social media trophy for a coyote as there is a big buck. So to conclude, id say most of us do it for meat, but secretly we all would love to tag a big chunk of bone along the way. That's my opinion anyhow...

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[wolc123]

41 minutes ago, chrisw said:

Who knows? Who cares honestly? How many people hunt deer to protect their crops? The point is generally speaking we are out there shooting deer for venison, but somewhere in all of us we want a big rack because that's what celebrity shows and magazines and social media puts the emphasis on so naturally we are drawn to it. Let's say all 5% do it for the reason you mentioned, how many % of hunters complain about a "low" deer and turkey population yet do not partake in any effort to control predators? Exponentially more, why? Because there's not as much of a social media trophy for a coyote as there is a big buck. So to conclude, id say most of us do it for meat, but secretly we all would love to tag a big chunk of bone along the way. That's my opinion anyhow...

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It looks like FSW is the only one who thinks antlers are more important than meat to most people.   The percentage of those who have said meat is more important ion this thread is now getting pretty close to the 78 % that I predicted earlier.  Who should you believe ? 

[Buckmaster7600]

Who knows? Who cares honestly? How many people hunt deer to protect their crops? The point is generally speaking we are out there shooting deer for venison, but somewhere in all of us we want a big rack because that's what celebrity shows and magazines and social media puts the emphasis on so naturally we are drawn to it. Let's say all 5% do it for the reason you mentioned, how many % of hunters complain about a "low" deer and turkey population yet do not partake in any effort to control predators? Exponentially more, why? Because there's not as much of a social media trophy for a coyote as there is a big buck. So to conclude, id say most of us do it for meat, but secretly we all would love to tag a big chunk of bone along the way. That's my opinion anyhow...

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I don’t blame it on magazines or social media. Cave drawings very rarely show spike horns. I think since humans started walking on 2 feet and eating meat that men have wanted to kill the biggest deer.


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[chrisw]

I don’t blame it on magazines or social media. Cave drawings very rarely show spike horns. I think since humans started walking on 2 feet and eating meat that men have wanted to kill the biggest deer.


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You won't see many crotch horns on the cover of deer and deer hunting either, I agree though, it is somewhat natural to want "more." Hell, most women even want bigger racks!

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[Four Season Whitetail's]

You won't see many crotch horns on the cover of deer and deer hunting either, I agree though, it is somewhat natural to want "more." Hell, most women even want bigger racks!

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Lol. Be careful. You are starting to make sense and will have guys like Crapice calling you out.


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[moog5050]

12 minutes ago, chrisw said:

You won't see many crotch horns on the cover of deer and deer hunting either, I agree though, it is somewhat natural to want "more." Hell, most women even want bigger racks!

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That’s why this poll is a fallacy.  It’s not one or the other.  It’s both for many of us.  Primary reason might be meat but it often turns into biggest antlers with the meat.  They both become important or at least are to me.  Neither is required for a fun hunt however.  

[chrisw]

That’s why this poll is a fallacy.  It’s not one or the other.  It’s both for many of us.  Primary reason might be meat but it often turns into biggest antlers with the meat.  They both become important or at least are to me.  Neither is required for a fun hunt however.  

Agreed, meat Hunter or horn hunter, a large racked buck will get anyone excited. If there were 10 does in a field and 1 large racked buck, I'm quite certain which deer is getting plugged by everyone on this site (if legal obviously).

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[wolc123]

1 hour ago, moog5050 said:

That’s why this poll is a fallacy.  It’s not one or the other.  It’s both for many of us.  Primary reason might be meat but it often turns into biggest antlers with the meat.  They both become important or at least are to me.  Neither is required for a fun hunt however.  

Both are important for most if not all, but the question was which is MORE important to YOU as a hunter.   I still show seventeen who are unable to make up their minds but we now have seven who say antlers are more important and eighteen who say meat is more important.  

If you are having trouble making up your mind, ask yourself if you would still hunt deer if they were not edible.   How about if they did not have antlers ?  Your answers to those questions may help indicate which is more important to you.   The purpose of this poll was to eliminate some of the guesswork and it has already accomplished that.  72 % of those who made up their minds said that meat was more important to them.  

[moog5050]

6 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Both are important for most if not all, but the question was which is MORE important to YOU as a hunter.   I still show seventeen who are unable to make up their minds but we now have seven who say antlers are more important and eighteen who say meat is more important.  

If you are having trouble making up your mind, ask yourself if you would still hunt deer if they were not edible.   How about if they did not have antlers ?  Your answers to those questions may help indicate which is more important to you.   The purpose of this poll was to eliminate some of the guesswork and it has already accomplished that.  72 % of those who made up their minds said that meat was more important to them.  

Perhaps your reading comprehension is not great.  I have explained my thoughts many times already.   And as I said, both are important.  If it weren’t for big antlers I would probably hunt 3x a year vs 40x.  In that regard, antlers are the draw.  But I wouldn’t hunt at all if I didn’t eat the meat.  So I guess for me meat is more important 7.2 percent of the time and antlers are more important 92.8 perceht.  

Perhaos now you see why statistics mean nothing.    Very easy to maniipulate.  And I reject your poll not because I can’t decide but because the question is nonsense.  

[wolc123]

5 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Perhaps your reading comprehension is not great.  I have explained my thoughts many times already.   And as I said, both are important.  If it weren’t for big antlers I would probably hunt 3x a year vs 40x.  In that regard, antlers are the draw.  But I wouldn’t hunt at all if I didn’t eat the meat.  So I guess for me meat is more important 7.2 percent of the time and antlers are more important 92.8 perceht.  

Perhaos now you see why statistics mean nothing.    Very easy to maniipulate.  And I reject your poll not because I can’t decide but because the question is nonsense.  

In that case I will leave you in the "undecided" category because that math is too difficult for me to follow.   Also, if you did decide clearly on one or the other, it would throw the percentage a little off from where I had predicted before the poll.  Essentially I did not need a poll, so I do agree that it was "nonsense".  Next time, I might skip the poll and simply assume that my pre-conceived notion is correct.   But then again, it is fun to talk about something other than turkeys at this time of year, so thanks for your contribution.   

[moog5050]

18 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

In that case I will leave you in the "undecided" category because that math is too difficult for me to follow.   Also, if you did decide clearly on one or the other, it would throw the percentage a little off from where I had predicted before the poll.  Essentially I did not need a poll, so I do agree that it was "nonsense".  Next time, I might skip the poll and simply assume that my pre-conceived notion is correct.   But then again, it is fun to talk about something other than turkeys at this time of year, so thanks for your contribution.   

It am not undecided.  You just don’t like or want to hear what is the truth for many of us.  The reason We hunt on any particular day or any particular thunt varies.    What is more important to us on a hunt may change throughout the season.  There  is not a simple orne size fits all answer.  I am sorry you are not capable of following what really is a simple explanation of why your poll is not valid.  

Edited May 3, 2018 by moog5050

[Buckmaster7600]

It am not undecided.  You just don’t like or want to hear what is the truth for many of us.  The reason We hunt on any particular day or any particular thunt varies.    What is more important to us on a hunt may change throughout the season.  There  is not a simple orne size fits all answer.  I am sorry you are not capable of following what really is a simple explanation of why your poll is not valid.  

I’m confused as to why Wolc’s so confused. I agree with you moog. If deer didn’t have antlers I’d probably hunt once a year kill a deer for my uncle and be done. Last year I hunted 81 sits if it wasn’t for antlers I would have hunted 80 less times. If you couldn’t eat deer but they had antlers I would have hunted 81 times.

 

Honestly if deer weren’t edible I would probably hunt harder I know many times while hunting the ADK’s I have left a track or given up on a deer knowing I wouldn’t be able to get them out if I did kill them. If I could consciously just cut the horns off and leave them there I would definitely hunt even harder.

 

 

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[moog5050]

16 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

I’m confused as to why Wolc’s so confused. I agree with you moog. If deer didn’t have antlers I’d probably hunt once a year kill a deer for my uncle and be done. Last year I hunted 81 sits if it wasn’t for antlers I would have hunted 80 less times. If you couldn’t eat deer but they had antlers I would have hunted 81 times.

 

Honestly if deer weren’t edible I would probably hunt harder I know many times while hunting the ADK’s I have left a track or given up on a deer knowing I wouldn’t be able to get them out if I did kill them. If I could consciously just cut the horns off and leave them there I would definitely hunt even harder.

 

 

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That means 1.2% of the time meat is more important and 98.8% of the time antlers are.  Lol.  It’s a silly poll.  But whatever.  It makes Wolc happy to oversimplify so he can have at it. 

[wolc123]

 

1 hour ago, moog5050 said:

That means 1.2% of the time meat is more important and 98.8% of the time antlers are.  Lol.  It’s a silly poll.  But whatever.  It makes Wolc happy to oversimplify so he can have at it. 

I am happy that the majority (25) have been able to make up their mind, but I am a little puzzled by the minority (17) who have not.  Most likely, most of them missed the "more important" part of the question.   It is hard to believe that many would rate meat and antlers as exactly the same.   More likely, most (who did see the "more important" part) are just scared to state that publicly, out of fear of gaining a derogatory label as either a "meat hunter" or a "trophy hunter".    All of us are somewhere between these extremes and it is nice to see that most have the guts to at least indicate which way they lean.

I intended to put a couple of those boxes in there, so folks could check one or the other and the votes would be continually tallied.  It is kind of neat the way this has worked out though, because we can all see who voted each way, and give an opportunity for those who are unable or unwilling to make up their mind (such as yourself) an opportunity to state their case.   You will not pick one or the other because "it's a silly poll".   Does that mean you are not scared ?           

Edited May 3, 2018 by wolc123

[Five Seasons]

15 hours ago, chrisw said:

Who knows? Who cares honestly? How many people hunt deer to protect their crops? The point is generally speaking we are out there shooting deer for venison, but somewhere in all of us we want a big rack because that's what celebrity shows and magazines and social media puts the emphasis on so naturally we are drawn to it. Let's say all 5% do it for the reason you mentioned, how many % of hunters complain about a "low" deer and turkey population yet do not partake in any effort to control predators? Exponentially more, why? Because there's not as much of a social media trophy for a coyote as there is a big buck. So to conclude, id say most of us do it for meat, but secretly we all would love to tag a big chunk of bone along the way. That's my opinion anyhow...

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was just pointing out that some yote hunters do it because they're deer and turkey hunters.

To your point, I don't think we all crave antlers because of tv shows and magazines, but many do because it can justify their time and effort, can serve as a verification of talent and represents the greatest challenge.

I'd also add that while yes we're out shooting deer for venison, I think some also use the fact that they eat what they kill as justification for horn hunting. "It's ok I shoot bucks, because I eat them". Probably a small percentage, but still some do. Think of the elephant hunter. He's not eating it, but justifies it because the village will... meanwhile all he takes home is a head.

[Five Seasons]

15 hours ago, wolc123 said:

It looks like FSW is the only one who thinks antlers are more important than meat to most people.   The percentage of those who have said meat is more important ion this thread is now getting pretty close to the 78 % that I predicted earlier.  Who should you believe ? 

well there you have it. Your meat hunters and crossbow hunters are the majority. You've settled 2 great debates!

[Five Seasons]

12 hours ago, wolc123 said:

  I still show seventeen who are unable to make up their minds but we now have seven who say antlers are more important and eighteen who say meat is more important.  

 

you don't get it. Maybe this will help. Some of my best hunts have resulted in zero blood spilled. Tuesday morning was paradise and I never fired a shot. sit on that for a while. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Belo

[Dom]

MEAT!

[moog5050]

10 hours ago, wolc123 said:

  Does that mean you are not scared ?           

I literally laughed out loud with your response.  Thank you for some comic relief this morning.  Scared of what?  Your "poll".  Good grief man, I hope you are not seriously asking that question. 

I will try to explain this one more time and perhaps you will finally grasp it.  Lets say my first goal is some meat and I shoot a doe on opening day.  Meat in the freezer.  Then I hunt 49 more times waiting on that mature buck.  I am sure even you can do that math.  2% of the time (1 out of 50 hunts), the meat was "more important."  98% of the time (49 out of 50 hunts) antlers were "more important".  And honestly Wolc, for hunters that can easily fill the freezer, often the primary purpose of the hunt is to chase a big buck, ie antlers, not the meat as that is a given.  But still there are times when meat is the goal.  Here is a shocker, I often hunt different places and stands depending on what is more important to me that day.  And to blow your mind even more, there are days where neither is more important.  Its just some nice quiet time in the woods.  Have a great day my friend.  I am glad you are solving the world's important problems like meat or antlers in way acceptable to you are perhaps that justifies your killing of many button bucks (which by the way is completely fine by me too - you tags kill whatever legal deer you want). 

Edited May 3, 2018 by moog5050

[Steuben Jerry]

You know, this poll proves to me that we're a diverse group. Some hunt meat, some hunt horns, some hunt for the experience. I certainly respect everyone's opinion and personal desires.

What does get under my skin is "antler snobs". I've got someone whom I hunt with occasionally who fits that description. Unless it's 140+, we should pass on it. And anything less deserves scorn. Hell, I've only seen two bucks that fit that description where I hunt. And that's in 30 years! A few years ago, my buddy took one of those and became the antler snob he is today. Prior, he shot spikes, small forks, BB's, and I remember a fawn he carried out that couldn't have been 50 lbs. But then I shoot an 8 point 2.5 year old with a 15 inch spread (my best deer at that time) and I get lectured to about how I should have let that walk. Lectured right up to the next deer season. And that's from someone whom I let hunt my land, that I pay big taxes on. I shut that lecturing down finally.

So hunt for what you like, meat, antlers, or experience, and respect other's choices as long as they're legal and ethical.

 

 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Steuben Jerry

[WNYBuckHunter]

41 minutes ago, Steuben Jerry said:

You know, this poll proves to me that we're a diverse group. Some hunt meat, some hunt horns, some hunt for the experience. I certainly respect everyone's opinion and personal desires.

What does get under my skin is "antler snobs". I've got someone whom I hunt with occasionally who fits that description. Unless it's 140+, we should pass on it. And anything less deserves scorn. Hell, I've only seen two bucks that fit that description where I hunt. And that's in 30 years! A few years ago, my buddy took one of those and became the antler snob he is today. Prior, he shot spikes, small forks, BB's, and I remember a fawn he carried out that couldn't have been 50 lbs. But then I shoot an 8 point 2.5 year old with a 15 inch spread (my best deer at that time) and I get lectured to about how I should have let that walk. Lectured right up to the next deer season. And that's from someone whom I let hunt my land, that I pay big taxes on. I shut that lecturing down finally.

So hunt for what you like, meat, antlers, or experience, and respect other's choices as long as they're legal and ethical.

 

 

^^^^this

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I literally laughed out loud with your response.  Thank you for some comic relief this morning.  Scared of what?  Your "poll".  Good grief man, I hope you are not seriously asking that question. 
I will try to explain this one more time and perhaps you will finally grasp it.  Lets say my first goal is some meat and I shoot a doe on opening day.  Meat in the freezer.  Then I hunt 49 more times waiting on that mature buck.  I am sure even you can do that math.  2% of the time (1 out of 50 hunts), the meat was "more important."  98% of the time (49 out of 50 hunts) antlers were "more important".  And honestly Wolc, for hunters that can easily fill the freezer, often the primary purpose of the hunt is to chase a big buck, ie antlers, not the meat as that is a given.  But still there are times when meat is the goal.  Here is a shocker, I often hunt different places and stands depending on what is more important to me that day.  And to blow your mind even more, there are days where neither is more important.  Its just some nice quiet time in the woods.  Have a great day my friend.  I am glad you are solving the world's important problems like meat or antlers in way acceptable to you are perhaps that justifies your killing of many button bucks (which by the way is completely fine by me too - you tags kill whatever legal deer you want). 

Lol...I think you way have just blown his mind!


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[Buckmaster7600]

Dbl post

[Buckmaster7600]

I literally laughed out loud with your response.  Thank you for some comic relief this morning.  Scared of what?  Your "poll".  Good grief man, I hope you are not seriously asking that question. 

I will try to explain this one more time and perhaps you will finally grasp it.  Lets say my first goal is some meat and I shoot a doe on opening day.  Meat in the freezer.  Then I hunt 49 more times waiting on that mature buck.  I am sure even you can do that math.  2% of the time (1 out of 50 hunts), the meat was "more important."  98% of the time (49 out of 50 hunts) antlers were "more important".  And honestly Wolc, for hunters that can easily fill the freezer, often the primary purpose of the hunt is to chase a big buck, ie antlers, not the meat as that is a given.  But still there are times when meat is the goal.  Here is a shocker, I often hunt different places and stands depending on what is more important to me that day.  And to blow your mind even more, there are days where neither is more important.  Its just some nice quiet time in the woods.  Have a great day my friend.  I am glad you are solving the world's important problems like meat or antlers in way acceptable to you are perhaps that justifies your killing of many button bucks (which by the way is completely fine by me too - you tags kill whatever legal deer you want). 

Moog, turn around in your chair and start typing on the wall you’ll get more comprehension, even on that 1 day meat isn’t more important because even though you’re going out for meat if a small buck walks by your not going to shoot it because then you won’t have a tag to chase ANTLERS.

 

 

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