Ted Nugent on CNN tonight

[steve863]

Virgil, I completely agree with you.  I am a hunter first and foremost.  Many of the NRA type claim that the 2nd amendment has nothing to do with hunting, which is fine with me.  They can think what they want of what the 2nd amendment means and so will I.  Since hunting and the 2nd amendment are two separate things, I should feel NO obligation to follow lockstep with their thinking just because I am a hunter.

[First-light]

Even among the great hunting fraternity opinions differ.

http://razoreye.net/mirror/zumbo/zumbo_assault_rifles.html

Burt, you do know that Zumbo was practically horsewhipped for expressing that opinion?  He was fired from Outdoor Life and Remington, and a slew of other companies and people didn't want anything to do with him.  Who then steps in, none other than Ted Nugent who took him to his ranch to shoot some of these AR-15 type rifles and to "educate" him on them.  I happen to agree with Zumbo and admired his guts to say what he felt.  The shooting world unfortunately is not kind to those who don't march lock step with them and some of their extremist views.  This forum is another example of this also, although not nearly as bad as many others which is a good thing.

Yes I do Steve, it's a shame. I respect Jim Zumbo and the things he has done for hunting. He really had to eat crow for that one.

http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2007/02/jim-zumbo-apologizes.html

[WNYBuckHunter]

Even among the great hunting fraternity opinions differ.

http://razoreye.net/mirror/zumbo/zumbo_assault_rifles.html

Burt, you do know that Zumbo was practically horsewhipped for expressing that opinion?  He was fired from Outdoor Life and Remington, and a slew of other companies and people didn't want anything to do with him.  Who then steps in, none other than Ted Nugent who took him to his ranch to shoot some of these AR-15 type rifles and to "educate" him on them.  I happen to agree with Zumbo and admired his guts to say what he felt.  The shooting world unfortunately is not kind to those who don't march lock step with them and some of their extremist views.  This forum is another example of this also, although not nearly as bad as many others which is a good thing.

Personally I think Zumbo deserved what he got. The phrase "assault weapon" is nothing but anti-gun propaganda in the first place, then the guy goes so far to call them "terrorist guns"? It was just plain ignorant.

[First-light]

Yea it was kind of a shoot from the hip reaction for him. He explains himself in the apology. I have a high regard for him but as the saying goes "you said it you meant it."

[steve863]

I wouldn't disagree that the term "assault weapons" has been used as a propaganda tool, but I honestly don't see the "black gun" craze as benefitting gun ownership in this country any.  All I know is that hunters go out and buy guns to hunt with or to target practice with, while many "black gun" buyers are arming themselves for some sort of armegedon.  They are putting ALL gun owners in the "looney" category amongst those who are on the fence on the subject.  I can't see this as being a good thing, and that is what I think Zumbo was driving at with his statement.

 

[Mr VJP]

Gun owners and hunters on the other side of the "black gun" issue don't seem to realize they are siding with the anti gunners and would obviously like to see them banned to enhance their own self image.  That's blatant encroachment on American rights and very near sighted.  Mechanically there is no difference between an AR and your Remington 750.  Do you think if "black guns" were banned that is where the anti gunners would stop?

When people say they are against ownership of any type of military weapon, and cite examples like nukes, tanks, rockets grenades and machine guns, if they are allowed to extrapolate far enough, they will eventually be reaching into the average Joe's gun cabinet and deciding certain legally owned rifles and shotguns have to be banned as well.

Those are the true colors of those that are willing to accept encroachment.  A reach into your freedoms much farther than they want you to believe.

Perception on the issue has no relevance at all.  This is a land that is run by the rule of law.  What is needed is a SCOTUS ruling on the issue to settle it once and for all.  Without that, we will never see then end of the gun ban agenda.

[Doc]

Maybe some should ponder on why associating oneself with the NRA almost guarantees someone the "lunatic" and "nutjob" label?  If that is the opinion of even a good many gun owners, than there just may be some truth to it.  As with any stereotype, there is usually a good deal of truth that surrounds it.

One thing I hope you are not confused about is the fact that while I disagree with Nugent as an effective spokesman for gun owners and hunters, that does not imply that I disagree with his message. It is the offensive delivery methods that I find fault with. That doesn't mean that he isn't correct in what he is saying. There may be some finer points here and there that I might take issue with, but the general theme of what he says on gun control seems to align pretty well with my beliefs.

Further, I find no problem with him being associated with the NRA. In fact that is the one thing that actually gives him some credibility and perhaps is the only reason that I occasionally stop and listen to his opinions. I believe the NRA like any effective advocacy organization is strengthened by the fact that there is room for all kinds of gun owners with all kinds of opinions and viewpoints. As crazy and irritating and obnoxious as Nugent is, at least what I have heard him say on the subject shows he is on the right side of the gun control issue. I simply have a concern about how many people he may drive over to the other side with his offensive presentations of some very good views on the issue of gun control. 

[Mr VJP]

I repeat:  People who once believed the Earth was the center of the universe and flat as a plate, accused those who challenged their thinking of being lunatics and nut jobs.

Guess who turned out to be more informed?

[Mr VJP]

Tom Selleck would be an excellent spokesman for the NRA ..........

He probably would be......but he's not involved in the fight at all, and is actually avoiding it.  He's protecting his image, which is more important to him than the rights of America's gun owners.  Though he appears to be manly and macho, he is not willing to take on the fight he knows would ensue if he were to jump into the gun control debate.  Heck, he didn't even respond to Rosie's maniacal rant against guns when he had the chance.  It takes a real patriot, willing to risk, and even lose, everything, to stand up to tyranny and oppression, even when he knows it is the right thing to do.

I like Selleck, but I don't think he has the guts for it.

[fasteddie]

I repeat:  People who once believed the Earth was the center of the universe and flat as a plate, accused those who challenged their thinking of being lunatics and nut jobs.

You mean it's not flat ???  ??? 

[Mr VJP]

Here's a good link to the Federal uniform gun law issue, and why it is also a joke.

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=6905

[wztirem]

I repeat:  People who once believed the Earth was the center of the universe and flat as a plate, accused those who challenged their thinking of being lunatics and nut jobs.

You mean it's not flat ???  ???

The earth is flattest at the poles and at the equator.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I wouldn't disagree that the term "assault weapons" has been used as a propaganda tool, but I honestly don't see the "black gun" craze as benefitting gun ownership in this country any.  All I know is that hunters go out and buy guns to hunt with or to target practice with, while many "black gun" buyers are arming themselves for some sort of armegedon.  They are putting ALL gun owners in the "looney" category amongst those who are on the fence on the subject.  I can't see this as being a good thing, and that is what I think Zumbo was driving at with his statement.

steve, if you take a real good look at the AR platform, you can see why it is very popular. There are all the accessories available that you could ever hope for to build one into the perfect rifle for what you want to use it for, it is an extremely accurate semi-auto and it is available is a huge variety of calibers, both center and rimfire. My friend and I hunt with a 223 chambered Rock River Arms rifle when we go predator hunting, and that gun is deadly accurate at 200 - 300 yards, light weight and just plain nice to shoot. I am looking into my next deer rifle being one of the larger caliber AR platform rifles, Im looking into either a 260 or 308 chambered rifle. I know quite a few guys that own them, and not one of them is arming themself for any type of armegedon. You just have to look past the "assault weapon" and "black gun" propaganda spewed by the antis and realize that there is nothing inherently evil or malicious with those guns.

[steve863]

I wouldn't disagree that the term "assault weapons" has been used as a propaganda tool, but I honestly don't see the "black gun" craze as benefitting gun ownership in this country any.  All I know is that hunters go out and buy guns to hunt with or to target practice with, while many "black gun" buyers are arming themselves for some sort of armegedon.  They are putting ALL gun owners in the "looney" category amongst those who are on the fence on the subject.  I can't see this as being a good thing, and that is what I think Zumbo was driving at with his statement.

steve, if you take a real good look at the AR platform, you can see why it is very popular. There are all the accessories available that you could ever hope for to build one into the perfect rifle for what you want to use it for, it is an extremely accurate semi-auto and it is available is a huge variety of calibers, both center and rimfire. My friend and I hunt with a 223 chambered Rock River Arms rifle when we go predator hunting, and that gun is deadly accurate at 200 - 300 yards, light weight and just plain nice to shoot. I am looking into my next deer rifle being one of the larger caliber AR platform rifles, Im looking into either a 260 or 308 chambered rifle. I know quite a few guys that own them, and not one of them is arming themself for any type of armegedon. You just have to look past the "assault weapon" and "black gun" propaganda spewed by the antis and realize that there is nothing inherently evil or malicious with those guns.

I don't know, I would think predator hunters using AR's are a very, very small group in comparison to all the AR's that are being sold these days.  I walked into some gun shops recently and it looked like there were more AR type rifles on the shelf than other types of rifles.  I couldn't imagine that it was only predator hunters buying them, and since the majority of them are still chambered in the .223 caliber they were originally designed for, I don't think it's the deer hunters who are buying them up in droves either.  I think these type of weapons got their bad rap a good many years ago now, with some of those militias that sprung up around the country, and Aryan nation type organizations that felt the need to pose for pictures with them.  Such images can have a detrimental effect on those who are not as well versed in weaponry.  Unfortunately a few whackos spoil it for all others who  would use them for peaceful purposes.

[Doc]

Are we now judging the fitness for private ownership of firearms based on their appearance? Assault rifles .... Black guns ...... what nonsense! It's just another semi-auto rifle that has simply become the target for the anti-gun nuts based solely on how it looks.

[Mr VJP]

I'm old enough to recall when the group "Handgun Control" wanted all revolvers banned, simply because they were handguns.  This was before semi-auto pistols became more common in this country.  They will call for gun bans of all types untill all types of guns are banned.

Since when do we think, allowing gun laws to be written by those who are not well versed in firearms or their use, will ceate any laws that will actually solve gun crime issues?  Do we allow garbagemen to write the laws that control brain surgury?

We have enough laws on the books, both state and federal, to prevent all future gun crimes in this land.  The laws are always plea bargained away in criminal cases, but strictly enforced against the typical gun owner who unknowingly breaks the law, to remove that gun owners right to own any guns in the future.  It's not about preventing crime.  It's about preventing gun ownership!

[nyantler]

Steve.. you don't see the so called "Black gun" craze as benefitting gun ownership in this country... but you see new restrictive gun laws as helping our cause... sorry I'm not understanding that... it's kinda like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Are we now judging the fitness for private ownership of firearms based on their appearance? Assault rifles .... Black guns ...... what nonsense! It's just another semi-auto rifle that has simply become the target for the anti-gun nuts based solely on how it looks.

Bingo! Its a completely ridiculous thought process to me.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I wouldn't disagree that the term "assault weapons" has been used as a propaganda tool, but I honestly don't see the "black gun" craze as benefitting gun ownership in this country any.  All I know is that hunters go out and buy guns to hunt with or to target practice with, while many "black gun" buyers are arming themselves for some sort of armegedon.  They are putting ALL gun owners in the "looney" category amongst those who are on the fence on the subject.  I can't see this as being a good thing, and that is what I think Zumbo was driving at with his statement.

steve, if you take a real good look at the AR platform, you can see why it is very popular. There are all the accessories available that you could ever hope for to build one into the perfect rifle for what you want to use it for, it is an extremely accurate semi-auto and it is available is a huge variety of calibers, both center and rimfire. My friend and I hunt with a 223 chambered Rock River Arms rifle when we go predator hunting, and that gun is deadly accurate at 200 - 300 yards, light weight and just plain nice to shoot. I am looking into my next deer rifle being one of the larger caliber AR platform rifles, Im looking into either a 260 or 308 chambered rifle. I know quite a few guys that own them, and not one of them is arming themself for any type of armegedon. You just have to look past the "assault weapon" and "black gun" propaganda spewed by the antis and realize that there is nothing inherently evil or malicious with those guns.

I don't know, I would think predator hunters using AR's are a very, very small group in comparison to all the AR's that are being sold these days.  I walked into some gun shops recently and it looked like there were more AR type rifles on the shelf than other types of rifles.  I couldn't imagine that it was only predator hunters buying them, and since the majority of them are still chambered in the .223 caliber they were originally designed for, I don't think it's the deer hunters who are buying them up in droves either.  I think these type of weapons got their bad rap a good many years ago now, with some of those militias that sprung up around the country, and Aryan nation type organizations that felt the need to pose for pictures with them.  Such images can have a detrimental effect on those who are not as well versed in weaponry.  Unfortunately a few whackos spoil it for all others who  would use them for peaceful purposes.

I think you would be surprised at how many use them to hunt with. Take a peek at some of the predator hunting boards, like www.predatormastersforum.com to see how popular they are for that, and some of the AR related boards for an idea of how they are catching on for big game now that the lowers for the larger calibers have become more readily available, like the Remington R15, etc.