Plowing Started

[wolc123]

2 hours ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

Want to make big deer? Make This.


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Hopefully it makes tasty deer also.  My nephew gave me a bag of some kind of pasture mix that I put in last spring and this year it looks like mostly red clover.  I hope the button bucks like it.   As you know, antlers don't do a whole lot for me.   

[stubborn1VT]

Whitetails cannot properly digest and utilize the stem in the taller clovers. They aren't cows.  Look it up.  Seems like something you should already know.  

"Deer do not digest fiber stems well. The energy that the clover plant puts into growing thick tall stems is wasted. Fibrous stems are high in lignin, which makes stems rigid, and deer digest lignin ineffectively. ... Whitetail clovers should generally have thin stems and grow dense and low to the ground."

[Just Lucky]

Mowed another spot yesterday, and broadcasted more buckwheat.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Whitetails cannot properly digest and utilize the stem in the taller clovers. They aren't cows.  Look it up.  Seems like something you should already know.  
"Deer do not digest fiber stems well. The energy that the clover plant puts into growing thick tall stems is wasted. Fibrous stems are high in lignin, which makes stems rigid, and deer digest lignin ineffectively. ... Whitetail clovers should generally have thin stems and grow dense and low to the ground."

I do know. 100% fact for the last 20 years. You keep listening to people tell you things while us in the know keep living in the real world every day. They have no problem woofing down the stem with the leaves and the top be it mid summer or when it comes out of my wrapped bales in the middle of winter. Fact!! Maybe because mine are super bred mutant deer they eat like a different breed. Book smart much?


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[Dinsdale]

39 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

I do know. 100% fact for the last 20 years. You keep listening to people tell you things while us in the know keep living in the real world every day. They have no problem woofing down the stem with the leaves and the top be it mid summer or when it comes out of my wrapped bales in the middle of winter. Fact!! Maybe because mine are super bred mutant deer they eat like a different breed. Book smart much?


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Actually they can EAT stems but lignin associated with fiberous stems is a hugely researched topic in ruminants.

Certain lignins degrade the digestive process; google up lignin in ruminants. 

 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Actually they can EAT stems but lignin associated with fiberous stems is a hugely researched topic in ruminants.
Certain lignins degrade the digestive process; google up lignin in ruminants. 
 

I have heard of such but Medium Red is a big part of every pen and they do eat it for sure with no issues. I guess when it sat thru summer or something and head turned black it would cause issue.


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[wolc123]

Many years ago, when we had cattle on the farm, we fed a lot of red clover, pasture in the summer and hay in the winter.  Since the last of them left, more than 30 years ago, I have only planted white clover for the deer.  That is until my nephew gave me the bag of red last year.   I don't think red clover is a perennial, and it probably does not fix nitrogen as well as white, but if I can kill a button buck on it this fall I sure will plant it again.   How well the deer can digest it is not my primary concern.   Nothing is tastier or easier for me to digest than a button buck.         

[Dinsdale]

1 hour ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

I have heard of such but Medium Red is a big part of every pen and they do eat it for sure with no issues. I guess when it sat thru summer or something and head turned black it would cause issue.


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Eating not an issue, not toxic, just don't derive any nutrient value.

When raising beef, my hay guy was growing test plots for a lignin research program on different hay mixes. After sampling, he would sell the rest and I'd buy a tractor trailer load of 43 big squares at a time from him.  

[stubborn1VT]

I farmed it for plenty of years, and I am well aware that deer eat the stems.  As Dinsdale pointed out, they don't digest it well, so it's a waste of energy.  There are better things to plant than tall clovers.  It's not like they have a hell of a lot of choice inside a fence anyhow.  You "know" so dang much that you avoid the facts like the plague.  Given the choice deer won't eat the stems in mid-summer when the plant matures.  Stick with "Four Seasons", cuz the only "Real World" you seem to know is inside your fences.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I farmed it for plenty of years, and I am well aware that deer eat the stems.  As Dinsdale pointed out, they don't digest it well, so it's a waste of energy.  There are better things to plant than tall clovers.  It's not like they have a hell of a lot of choice inside a fence anyhow.  You "know" so dang much that you avoid the facts like the plague.  Given the choice deer won't eat the stems in mid-summer when the plant matures.  Stick with "Four Seasons", cuz the only "Real World" you seem to know is inside your fences.

Yeah I know. 200-300 inch bucks that have nothing but clovers alfalfa and every other mixed grasses but still come up with mouths full of stem leaves and head....By Choice! Guess I will listen to the animals then what some people think. Choices? Theses animals worth what they are get every choice available in greens rotational grazing along with free choice 22% grain and minerals. Yup, They are roughing it.


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[stubborn1VT]

Yup.  Sounds just like all the wild deer that we're interested in.  Might as well post about goats.  They get 22% grain and you give all the glory to stemmy clover.  I love it.  What does a post about raising cattle/goats have to do with this thread?  

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Yup.  Sounds just like all the wild deer that we're interested in.  Might as well post about goats.  They get 22% grain and you give all the glory to stemmy clover.  I love it.  What does a post about raising cattle/goats have to do with this thread?  

Yeah when someone says it's not good for them or the best for them or whatever and they have free choice of every food made available for a deer anywhere yet they still choose to eat the red clover stem and all? Can argue with success and I would guess 2-300 inch bucks would be a success. I wonder if the same ones that wrote that clover stems are an issue were the same ones that said CWD was going to waste every deer in every state the contracted it? Think I will stick with the program thanks.


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[land 1]

deep breath........ its clover plant what works for you, and share advise as u want.......

[stubborn1VT]

9 hours ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

Yeah when someone says it's not good for them or the best for them or whatever and they have free choice of every food made available for a deer anywhere yet they still choose to eat the red clover stem and all? Can argue with success and I would guess 2-300 inch bucks would be a success. I wonder if the same ones that wrote that clover stems are an issue were the same ones that said CWD was going to waste every deer in every state the contracted it? Think I will stick with the program thanks.


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Why didn't you just post a picture of the grain truck?  Your program is virtually the same as my neighbor's program for dairy cows.  It has very little to do with deer.  Deer get big when they don't have to fend for themselves.  Congratulations.  I just don't see what deer farming has to do with plantings for deer.  Red clover isn't the devil, but it isn't anywhere near the best either.  Either way, I'm glad to rattle your cage.  

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Why didn't you just post a picture of the grain truck?  Your program is virtually the same as my neighbor's program for dairy cows.  It has very little to do with deer.  Deer get big when they don't have to fend for themselves.  Congratulations.  I just don't see what deer farming has to do with plantings for deer.  Red clover isn't the devil, but it isn't anywhere near the best either.  Either way, I'm glad to rattle your cage.  

Shows how bright ya really are I guess. A deer is a deer regardless of what side of the fence it stands on. A well fed healthy deer will grow. Your the one that spewed off about red clover and deer not eating the stems. I am just the one here that can prove you wrong again. No Thanks needed.


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[stubborn1VT]

23 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

Shows how bright ya really are I guess. A deer is a deer regardless of what side of the fence it stands on. A well fed healthy deer will grow. Your the one that spewed off about red clover and deer not eating the stems. I am just the one here that can prove you wrong again. No Thanks needed.


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Guess your reading comprehension needs work too.  Deer eat the stems, but don't utilize them.  You're raising cattle.  You haven't proven a thing, other than the fact that you can't grasp the world outside of your fences, and that you are incapable of admitting you're wrong.  You should look into science.

[landtracdeerhunter]

My wheat acreage is fully headed out and setting seed quickly. Have a nice catch of legumes in the bottom. Deer have already taken several heads off the safe end of the field. Elected not to plant corn as a high acreage has been planted by area farmers. ( farmers are stuck on corn and refuse to plant specialty crops for the areas canning factory.)  Anyways, going to concentrate on June planting of pumpkins, and end July radish, oats and late August wheat.  I watched fawns with their mothers going through the standing hay. Good size to some of them already. I would guess counting back 200 days, October bred. ( as usual)  Pics forth coming as I lost my transfer cable.

Edited June 11, 2018 by landtracdeerhunter

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Guess your reading comprehension needs work too.  Deer eat the stems, but don't utilize them.  You're raising cattle.  You haven't proven a thing, other than the fact that you can't grasp the world outside of your fences, and that you are incapable of admitting you're wrong.  You should look into science.

I don't need to prove shit. I let those 2-300 inch bucks tell me what they want. And for something that science and you say they can't use they sure use their free choice to eat enough of it all year long. My fields on the rest of the 900 acres look just like it and use it just fine. I will let you listen to the so called science and I will listen to the real world. Is that same science used by the CWD guru's?


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[landtracdeerhunter]

LOOK PEOPLE; your destroying a perfectly good thread over highly debated topics. Move it to your own thread and stop crapping on this one.

Edited June 11, 2018 by landtracdeerhunter

[WNYBuckHunter]

I agree, lets leave the arguing out of this thread, if you want to argue, start a new thread for it.

Yesterday I had some time to walk down through the back woods, and marked out the trees I need to drop so I can get my tractor into the plot areas. With the clearing being at the bottom of our hill, I was worried they would be too wet to plow, but they are just fine. This coming weekend, Im going to get the chainsaw out and get the trees down, then I have to get a brush hog in there. I would like to get in there soon, as I want to get the plots plowed for the first time, and I want to plant some rows of pumpkins on the edges of the plots. Not knowing how rocky this place is yet, Im going to forgo the tiller, and do them with a plow and disc this year. I have my eye on a nice little 2 bottom plow that I know has been for sale for quite a while. Should be perfect for my tractor and the size of these plots. Still havent been able to find a deal on a disc though, everyone seems to ask an arm and a leg for any old equipment they dig out of a hedgerow.

One bonus down there, I discovered an old well. I need to look at it and see if the lines, pump and wiring is still in there and in usable condition. It would be great to take my generator down there and use the well when I need water to spray or irrigate during a dry year.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Deleted the continued argument.

Next one to keep it going gets a time out. I asked nicely once, I wont again.

[stubborn1VT]

2 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Deleted the continued argument.

Next one to keep it going gets a time out. I asked nicely once, I wont again.

I find this confusing after all the shizz I've read on here.  I understand the objection, but I don't have a clue about the standard.  Seems arbitrary to me.

Edited June 11, 2018 by stubborn1VT

[WNYBuckHunter]

59 minutes ago, stubborn1VT said:

I find this confusing after all the shizz I've read on here.  I understand the objection, but I don't have a clue about the standard.  Seems arbitrary to me.

Because honestly, it is arbitrary as to which threads are let go and which ones get wrangled in. If Eddie and I spent time slapping everyones hands for every little infraction in every thread, we would never have time to enjoy the site.

The general rule of thumb though, is if one of the moderators asks you to stop doing something, (like tone down the language, keep a thread on track, etc) then thats your warning. The rules are in place to give a general idea of expected behavior, we allow people to gently bend them here and there. Technically I could slap your hand for using the word shizz, as its just an attempt to mask the word shit, and thats against the rules. You arent someone that comes on here and constantly starts trouble though, so its all good.

[stubborn1VT]

Thanks for the honest reply.  I'm good to go.

[landtracdeerhunter]

10 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

I agree, lets leave the arguing out of this thread, if you want to argue, start a new thread for it.

Yesterday I had some time to walk down through the back woods, and marked out the trees I need to drop so I can get my tractor into the plot areas. With the clearing being at the bottom of our hill, I was worried they would be too wet to plow, but they are just fine. This coming weekend, Im going to get the chainsaw out and get the trees down, then I have to get a brush hog in there. I would like to get in there soon, as I want to get the plots plowed for the first time, and I want to plant some rows of pumpkins on the edges of the plots. Not knowing how rocky this place is yet, Im going to forgo the tiller, and do them with a plow and disc this year. I have my eye on a nice little 2 bottom plow that I know has been for sale for quite a while. Should be perfect for my tractor and the size of these plots. Still havent been able to find a deal on a disc though, everyone seems to ask an arm and a leg for any old equipment they dig out of a hedgerow.

One bonus down there, I discovered an old well. I need to look at it and see if the lines, pump and wiring is still in there and in usable condition. It would be great to take my generator down there and use the well when I need water to spray or irrigate during a dry year.

The law of supply and demand. Those disc were going for scrap price on auctions not to many years ago. I had a chance to buy several for 50-60 bucks and passed. Now I want a yard full, LOL. 

It sound like you have a good plan in place, and the looks of past year pics, your be greening the wildlife in no time. I was in Avon yesterday; that well just may come in handy for ya this season. Good luck and enjoy your new place. Oh, I haven't forgot the maple.