What About a Limited Draw?

[pitweiler]

5 minutes ago, FatBoyD said:

I fail to understand why people want to change things from the way they are now and make them even more of a mess and more complicated... and a public land access fee in NYS?????? dear lord man... 

 

 

Some southern states (Georgia for one) make you pay $10-20, I can't remember what it was, to access their public land. I think it would help fund conservation. ETA: I would want to read the legislation very carefully before I supported it. If it looked like it had a lot of grey area to steal this money away from conservation, I would oppose it.

Edited December 3, 2018 by pitweiler

[The_Real_TCIII]

Im all for funding conservation as long as the state doesnt dip into it for the general fund. Id pay triple for a license if the money stayed where it belonged

[Don_C]

2 minutes ago, pitweiler said:

Some southern states (Georgia for one) make you pay $10-20, I can't remember what it was, to access their public land. I think it would help fund conservation.

Yes and they don't pay anywhere near the taxes we already pay to our state. NYS takes enough of my money and misuses it already. 

[pitweiler]

That is why I would want to carefully read the legislation before I supported it. If done properly NYS could end up with some really nice public land as the program evolves.

 

FatBoyD- Their taxes may be lower, but they get you in other ways. Honestly man it all works out to about even. I was living in Metro Atlanta for a while and moved back because it was too darn expensive.

Edited December 3, 2018 by pitweiler

[dbHunterNY]

2 minutes ago, FatBoyD said:

Yes and they don't pay anywhere near the taxes we already pay to our state. NYS takes enough of my money and misuses it already. 

thank you for fixing the deer down in NYC.

[pitweiler]

1 minute ago, dbHunterNY said:

thank you for fixing the deer down in NYC.

That could be an issue. It would have to be addressed in the legislation.

[Don_C]

1 minute ago, dbHunterNY said:

thank you for fixing the deer down in NYC.

Not sure what that means.

[dbHunterNY]

1 minute ago, pitweiler said:

That could be an issue. It would have to be addressed in the legislation.

it happened and was totally legit. no way to legislate DEC agreeing to a down right stupid use of funds. the data collection that used as justification just wasn't worth the cost.

[dbHunterNY]

2 minutes ago, FatBoyD said:

Not sure what that means.

DEC funding used some of our license sales dollars to partially fund giving bucks vasectomies with hopes sterilization would be a humane NYC way of thinking means to solve the issue of deer over populating down there. it wasn't expected to work and didn't. they did it anyway to make down state folks happy. 

[The_Real_TCIII]

On 11/22/2018 at 9:17 AM, Daveboone said:

There are absolutely exceptions, just as plenty of the guys who shoot only one deer do not always take them legally. I admit I in the past had taken three legal bucks (regular, ml, archery, and lets not forget that for a few years deer management permits in certain areas were for either / or). I decided for myself, despite being able to purchase AND legally shoot three bucks, it was excessive. I have a number of acquantances and friends who are excellent skilled hunters who (unfortunately now in my eyes) can and do take three bucks, legally and ethically.  Myself, I look at the ML/ archery season as only a way of stretching the season, not making it more productive.

How are you shooting three?

[Daveboone]

At that time, regular season buck, muzzle loader, archery. For a few years in some units, deer management tags were either or. 

It has been a bunch of years since. No need, no want, and selfish. I no longer archery hunt, and don't have access to the land (changed owners several times since). Finger lakes area. Generally, one big deer is more than enough for us now. Occ. like this year, I will take a 2nd.

[Daveboone]

On ‎12‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 11:31 AM, dbHunterNY said:

don't take this personal but you hang out with a bunch of ignorant individuals or informed poachers.

sigh.

This is not rocket science. MANY hunters take full legal advantage of the system.  Acquaintances….people who I know, but do not hang out with, does not mean I hang out with them. I have been deer hunting / involved in the outdoors for almost 50 years, one way or another, and am involved with hundreds of people, many landowners and sportsmen of many generation. The more you know, well...the more you know.

As I made clear, I feel one is plenty per hunter. It was the law for many years. Our sportsmans laws are changed largely at the interest of the hunters themselves.  I am very surprised that there hasn't been more interest in this (one deer limit) but on several different forums / topics, it was resoundingly shot down. It is actually an interesting topic for a new topic? Have at it.

[grampy]

On 12/3/2018 at 11:43 AM, pitweiler said:

My licenses print just fine. I think there are plenty of states that have far more complicated hunting processes than this. If it is so easy, doing this would allow you to theoretically kill 4-5 bucks and 2-3 does, depending on what you took during the either-sex season.

I am by no means an expert or even close to it, but I can tell you that I don't like trying to be serious about this and getting to public land and I see XX amount of people there. It isn't safe and it isn't productive. If you read about a lot of the land NYS owns, they own it because no one else wanted it. They own it because the soil wasn't able to produce crops or the land was too wet. Some of the large expanses of state land are not accessible because they are swamps. I do a lot of e-scouting using On X Hunt Maps. Other than the ADK there isn't much state land that isn't within a few hundred yards of a road. Now, you can go through a find examples that prove me wrong, but this is by far more common than finding a large area of land that isn't close to roads.

If people want to hunt casually, that is totally fine. I completely support that. However, I don't see any reason why the people who are serious about it, or want to be serious about it can't have a 5 day archery and/or a 5 day firearm limited draw season before all the casual hunters hit the woods during regular.

In fact, instead of adding a tag, just make it a privilege. Make is $5, put it in a lottery and then issue out the stamps. I don't see an issue with that.

I feel the way it is now, is fine. Everyone has an equal chance, even those hunting public land. The better skilled hunters will always have better odds. And there are not many places in NY, where a three year old buck does not live.

[dbHunterNY]

15 hours ago, Daveboone said:

sigh.

This is not rocket science. MANY hunters take full legal advantage of the system.  Acquaintances….people who I know, but do not hang out with, does not mean I hang out with them. I have been deer hunting / involved in the outdoors for almost 50 years, one way or another, and am involved with hundreds of people, many landowners and sportsmen of many generation. The more you know, well...the more you know.

As I made clear, I feel one is plenty per hunter. It was the law for many years. Our sportsmans laws are changed largely at the interest of the hunters themselves.  I am very surprised that there hasn't been more interest in this (one deer limit) but on several different forums / topics, it was resoundingly shot down. It is actually an interesting topic for a new topic? Have at it.

not making you guilty by association. not my intent. with what you posted it seemed as though you were stating that you know people who legally take 3 bucks (antlered deer) here in NY, not just in the past but now. you cleared that up though in another recent post that you were talking about past seasons.

[dbHunterNY]

15 hours ago, grampy said:

I feel the way it is now, is fine. Everyone has an equal chance, even those hunting public land. The better skilled hunters will always have better odds. And there are not many places in NY, where a three year old buck does not live.

what people need to realize is a 3 year old could be 90" or 140+", even around here where antler potential isn't as great. regardless taking a 3.5 yr old deer is a respectable endeavor, even more so on public land.

[Rack Attack]

On ‎12‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 11:45 AM, pitweiler said:

Some southern states (Georgia for one) make you pay $10-20, I can't remember what it was, to access their public land.

I feel this should be covered by what is called a habitat stamp (in many states).  This habitat stamp would be part of your regular purchase of a hunting license.  What this would do is require others that use public property to help fund it by requiring they have a habitat stamp.  As it is, the majority of the money that is used to fund public property is funded by hunting license sales, however there are many people using public property without a hunting license (ie. hikers, skiers, bicyclers ect.).  I'm not saying they shouldn't be using public property for these activities, I just feel they should be helping to fund it like the hunters are.

 

As far as the other part of the conversation about adjusting deer hunting regulations.  I feel if they changed to a 1 buck limit without attaching it to any implement, along with reducing the length of firearms season (maybe a split season) and moving it out of the rut, then you would see some gains in age structure of whitetail buck.  Just my $.02

[grampy]

30 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

what people need to realize is a 3 year old could be 90" or 140+", even around here where antler potential isn't as great. regardless taking a 3.5 yr old deer is a respectable endeavor, even more so on public land.

Couldn't agree with you more.

The average three year old where I hunt in 4-H, rarely breaks 100 inches. But they are just as hard to hunt, as anywhere else in NY, where they may have more inches of bone on their head.

A three year old, and older buck, is a fine accomplishment for "ANY" NY hunter!  Especially on public land! As is "ANY" deer.

Just saying, there are plenty of three year olds out there, even on public land. A couple of my best bucks came from public land.

As time goes by, I am leaning more to the one buck per season rule. I think it will help the overall quality and quantity of NYS bucks. And perhaps put more older class bucks in the woods for more hunters.

Edited December 5, 2018 by grampy

[pitweiler]

I don’t think requiring people to pay a small yearly fee to access public land is outrageous. I think the main issue would be how do you enforce it? Do we really want a family of 5 getting a ticket for casually hiking without their proper stamp? I’m not sure that would be the best way to go about it. Some states do have similar fees for public land use. 

 

As for the 1 buck per year limit, I’m not opposed. I think instead of getting an antlered deer tag you should get an antlerless deer tag and the antlered tags should be issued like DMPs. 

I estimate that out of 580k hunting licenses sold 95% are purchased for deer hunting. Out of those people deer hunting probably 75-85% are going to exclusively hunt public land. Outside of the ADK region most of the state land is small. Because of this you end up with heavy hunter densities in some areas. 

I also don’t think the current hunting regulations are doing anything to curb the deer / human population conflicts in some areas. Most car/deer accidents are does outside of the rut. I work nights and I see 4 does to 1 buck, if that. Does are protected while bucks don’t get much protection. 

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by pitweiler

[phade]

36 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

not making you guilty by association. not my intent. with what you posted it seemed as though you were stating that you know people who legally take 3 bucks (antlered deer) here in NY, not just in the past but now. you cleared that up though in another recent post that you were talking about past seasons.

For a long time, and this just changed a couple seasons ago, hunters could legally take three bucks. Their bow/MZ either, reg season tag, and then in certain WMUs such as 8c, you could shoot a third buck. You simply harvested a doe on the DMP or statewide antlerless, brought the deer into the DEC office, and they issued you an either sex tag good for 8C. You could repeat that process with a doe many times over, but if you shot a buck on that either sex tag, you were done with added tags. The practice recently changed in past years to not allow it - and although I don't hunt in 8C, it was a shame they stopped it. That unit has extremely hard areas to get into (development, private, and access issues), and many areas are overrun by deer. It really decreased people's desires to hunt 8C.

 

[Dinsdale]

2 hours ago, Rack Attack said:

I feel this should be covered by what is called a habitat stamp (in many states).  This habitat stamp would be part of your regular purchase of a hunting license.  What this would do is require others that use public property to help fund it by requiring they have a habitat stamp.  As it is, the majority of the money that is used to fund public property is funded by hunting license sales, however there are many people using public property without a hunting license (ie. hikers, skiers, bicyclers ect.).  I'm not saying they shouldn't be using public property for these activities, I just feel they should be helping to fund it like the hunters are.

 

As far as the other part of the conversation about adjusting deer hunting regulations.  I feel if they changed to a 1 buck limit without attaching it to any implement, along with reducing the length of firearms season (maybe a split season) and moving it out of the rut, then you would see some gains in age structure of whitetail buck.  Just my $.02

 

Environmental Protection Fund paid for by real estate taxes is what drives all the major land purchases.

Read here;

https://www.dec.ny.gov/about/92815.html

 

I know lots of avid hikers and folks tied up with ADK and 46er's etc.

The downside for hunters is as soon as they have a paid for permit; they will demand a seat at the table and that gives them the right to propose things like not being able to hunt certain state land areas where use is high and similar.

There was a push internally when a hunter shot Yellow/Yellow a noted bear in high peaks area. (name came from a ear tag on both sides). Often caught and relocated only to return to core area.

There is a considerable amount of anti hunter sentiment in these groups; so be careful what you wish for, without a State Constitutional right to hunt (several other states have this) you open the door to shutting down property cause "they" don't like it.

 

In terms of using state resources almost all the trail maintenance is now done by by volunteer committees with approved project by project by DEC around the state. ADK mountain club hires on at their expense a pro trail crew for major projects and 46'ers have several volunteer trail masters that coordinate work projects in ADK's, in the Catskills ,NY/NJ Trail conference is involved here along with AT Club . Some donate hundreds of man hours and many years to these projects.

Most trails have a specific volunteer to address small projects of erosion, and report major issues.

They are governed by the same no power tool ordinances everyone must adhere to on state land using ax and saw to clear blow downs.

The DEC gets involved by approving projects and airlifting a couple times a winter building materials into remote locations. That flight training for drops is already paid for as air crews need to keep hours up anyway.Most materials are then additionally hand carried to actual sites often over difficult terrain for drop off points for actual work and un compostable material hand carried out, some times bundle by bundle over miles for proper disposal.

 

Don't underestimate the amount of time other users put into the same lands we share.

This is a myth that continues to be propagated unknowingly and disrespects both sides.

 

And I agree on your second paragraph that would help many units in NY.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Dinsdale