the unwritten rule of claiming a hit deer

[Nytracker]

38 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

I'm saying in the  deer woods no shot is going to be placed as good as off a bench rest so if you dont have a problem with recoil better off going for a little bigger powerful bullet that's going to make the bigger hole in the deer . Less chance its going to go far that way and have  someone else shoot at it and have to  deal with them .

I like it..justification for the x frame 500 s&w

[Nomad]

42 minutes ago, NYBowhunter said:

So you think the cure for poor or marginal shots is for a hunter to get a larger caliber ? I hope thats not what your suggesting.

I get what your saying , however, a book by the guy who stared leashed tracking dogs in NYS, and has been on over 1,000 tracking jobs, says he gets more calls for deer shot by .243 then all other calibers combined !

So to me that certainly , says something about calibers and there effectiveness.

[NYBowhunter]

52 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

I'm saying in the  deer woods no shot is going to be placed as good as off a bench rest so if you dont have a problem with recoil better off going for a little bigger powerful bullet that's going to make the bigger hole in the deer . Less chance its going to go far that way and have  someone else shoot at it and have to  deal with them .

Sorry but your approach is not logical to me,  key is bullet placement not caliber size. 

[Hunter007]

28 minutes ago, Stay at home Nomad said:

I get what your saying , however, a book by the guy who stared leashed tracking dogs in NYS, and has been on over 1,000 tracking jobs, says he gets more calls for deer shot by .243 then all other calibers combined !

So to me that certainly , says something about calibers and there effectiveness.

There already is a answer to this questions the military a long time ago did studys and found that the average man can handle no more then 30_06 caliber  with out having there accuracy drop off because of flinching .

Lots of the guides out west will tell you the same they would rather have a guy use a something like a 30-06 which is about as much as most recoil as people can take without flinching badly then something bigger that's going to make you flinch and make a bad shot .

Edited November 23, 2018 by Storm914

[NYBowhunter]

15 minutes ago, Stay at home Nomad said:

I get what your saying , however, a book by the guy who stared leashed tracking dogs in NYS, and has been on over 1,000 tracking jobs, says he gets more calls for deer shot by .243 then all other calibers combined !

So to me that certainly , says something about calibers and there effectiveness.

So a  deer gut shot with a 30-06  would make retrieval easier then a gut shot deer with a 243? To me gut shot is gut shot. The OP never mentioned nor are we talking about a 243. Hes suggesting hypothetically that if i use a 308, that maybe if i use a 45-70 my chances of making a better shot and less chance of loosing a deer to marginal shots would substantially increase. I call BS on that. The key to killing deer with any caliber, yes even a 243 is shot placement, PERIOD!!!!

[Hunter007]

12 minutes ago, NYBowhunter said:

Sorry but your approach is not logical to me,  key is bullet placement not caliber size. 

So I should hunt  black bears with 9mm ?

You should hunt with the biggest most powerful thing you can .

As long as the recoil is not effecting your accuracy. 

If it  does then you need to either step down to less gun or practice more .

Edited November 23, 2018 by Storm914

[NYBowhunter]

2 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

There already is a answer to this questions the military a long time ago did studys and found that the average man can handle no more then 30_06 caliber  with out having there accuracy drop off because of flinching .

Lots of the guilds out west will tell you the same they would rather have a guy use a something like a 30-06 which is about as much as most recoil as people can take without flinching badly then something bigger that's going to make you flinch and make a bad shot .

I dont get it, your now contradicting your original statement that bigger is better? Cant have it both ways, which one is it.? For arguments sake are saying if i use a  308 and make marginal shots that maybe just maybe i will miraculously become a better shot with a larger caliber?

[NYBowhunter]

2 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

So I should hunt  black bears with 9mm ?

You should hunt with the biggest most powerful thing you can .

As long as the recoil is not effecting your accuracy. 

If it  does then you need to either step down to less gun or practice more .

No im not saying that at all, your suggesting that a larger caliber will make me a better shot. Is that not what you wrote? Now your talking about shooting a bear with a 9mm, where do you get this crap . 

[Hunter007]

5 minutes ago, NYBowhunter said:

I dont get it, your now contradicting your original statement that bigger is better? Cant have it both ways, which one is it.? For arguments sake are saying if i use a  308 and make marginal shots that maybe just maybe i will miraculously become a better shot with a larger caliber?

I said as big  caliber as you can 

As long as you are not flinching from the recoil that it is effecting you accuracy. 

No contradiction in what I said .

Edited November 23, 2018 by Storm914

[Hunter007]

13 minutes ago, NYBowhunter said:

No im not saying that at all, your suggesting that a larger caliber will make me a better shot. Is that not what you wrote? Now your talking about shooting a bear with a 9mm, where do you get this crap . 

Well read what you said you give the impression that just because someone thinks there a good shot   it does not matter what they use . And I say it does if you want  the fastest kill possible.

Exception being if you are recoil sensitive and flinch if the gun is to powerful. 

But up to that point always better to go bigger , If you can take the recoil .

 

Or let me put it to you this way if your accuracy is not effected negatively by using  bigger caliber  us the  bigger caliber. 

 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Storm914

[NYBowhunter]

6 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

I said as big  caliber as you can 

As long as you are not flinching from the recoil that it is effecting you accuracy. 

No contradiction in what I said .

hour ago, Storm914 said:

I'm saying in the  deer woods no shot is going to be placed as good as off a bench rest so if you dont have a problem with recoil better off going for a little bigger powerful bullet that's going to make the bigger hole in the deer . Less chance its going to go far that way and have  someone else shoot at it and have to  deal with them .

 

Read your original statement above. Basically let me interrupt it for you. You are suggesting a hunter use the biggest possible caliber without them flinching of course and in doing this will eliminate your chances of loosing deer due to poot shot placement. Now i get it the bigger hole thats made  from the largest caliber my shoulder can handle without flinching of course will effectivwly  increase my retrieval odds. Brilliant.

[Hunter007]

2 minutes ago, NYBowhunter said:

hour ago, Storm914 said:

I'm saying in the  deer woods no shot is going to be placed as good as off a bench rest so if you dont have a problem with recoil better off going for a little bigger powerful bullet that's going to make the bigger hole in the deer . Less chance its going to go far that way and have  someone else shoot at it and have to  deal with them .

 

Read your original statement above. Basically let me interrupt it for you. You are suggesting a hunter use the biggest possible caliber without them flinching of course and in doing this will eliminate your chances of loosing deer due to poot shot placement. Now i get it the bigger hole thats made  from the largest caliber my shoulder can handle without flinching of course will effectivwly  increase my retrieval odds. Brilliant.

So you think when people shoot at deer there not aiming at kill zones lol that goes with out saying. 

 

[NYBowhunter]

7 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Well read what you said you give the impression that just because someone thinks there a good shot   it does not matter what they use . And I say it does if you want  the fastest kill possible.

Exception being if you are recoil sensitive and flinch if the gun is to powerful. 

But up to that point always better to go bigger , If you can take the recoil .

 

Or let me put it to you this way if your accuracy is not effected negatively by using  bigger caliber  us the  bigger caliber. 

 

Your going in circles man. Your the one making assumptions that a larger caliber will make you a better shot, hence increase your odds of retrieval.  Again, i call bullshit.  A deer hit in the lungs ot heart with a 243 or a 45-70, makes no dufference to me. Thats still a dead deer. Gut shoot a deer with a 243 or 45-70 makes no difference to me, you will  still possibly been in for a very long track job. 

[Nomad]

I agree shot placement is key, yet minor calibers without a doubt yield more lost dear . There is no debating that according to guys who’ve tracked thousands of them .

[Hunter007]

Just now, Stay at home Nomad said:

I agree shot placement is key, yet minor calibers without a doubt yield more lost dear . There is no debating that according to guys who’ve tracked thousands of them .

Thank you ,  

[NYBowhunter]

4 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

So you think when people shoot at deer there not aiming at kill zones lol that goes with out saying. 

 

Well obviously if they didnt hit their kill zones as you put it, they were not aiming for that "kill zone" or they didnt take the time to sight their guns. Yes mistakes do happen, but a larger caliber gut shot does not making the track job any easier.

[Hunter007]

2 minutes ago, NYBowhunter said:

Your going in circles man. Your the one making assumptions that a larger caliber will make you a better shot, hence increase your odds of retrieval.  Again, i call bullshit.  A deer hit in the lungs ot heart with a 243 or a 45-70, makes no dufference to me. Thats still a dead deer. Gut shoot a deer with a 243 or 45-70 makes no difference to me, you will  still possibly been in for a very long track job. 

You no what I mean or you should . Unless you been drinking tonight  

all things being equal take the same shot at a deer hit same spot deer will drop faster from a bigger more powerful bullet .

why would u think a bigger bullet is going to make you a better shot ?

[NYBowhunter]

3 minutes ago, Stay at home Nomad said:

I agree shot placement is key, yet minor calibers without a doubt yield more lost dear . There is no debating that according to guys who’ve tracked thousands of them .

Who ever mentioned minor calibers? What is a minor caliber?  Im talking about rifles i use. I shoot a 35 and can most certainly handle a 45-70, will the 45-70 make me a better shot? Should i go get a 45-70 because its bigger and doesnt make me flinch?  Or will practicing with my 35 and shot placement with that 35 make my retrieval chances much better? 

[Jeremy K]

If you flinch from shooting the gun you take in the woods hunting then you need to leave the woods until you can figure it out ,no excuse to blame flinching on a shot  at an animal.

[NYBowhunter]

4 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

You no what I mean or you should . Unless you been drinking tonight  

all things being equal take the same shot at a deer hit same spot deer will drop faster from a bigger more powerful bullet .

why would u think a bigger bullet is going to make you a better shot ?

Maybe your the one drinking. Again go read your OP, its suggesting a larger caliber will make me a better shot.

[Hunter007]

3 minutes ago, NYBowhunter said:

Well obviously if they didnt hit their kill zones as you put it, they were not aiming for that "kill zone" or they didnt take the time to sight their guns. Yes mistakes do happen, but a larger caliber gut shot does not making the track job any easier.

So you think the wound channel from a small caliber is not going to be  different enough then the wound channel of a larger caliber enough so that the animal will be easier to track really that's a new one .

 

 

 

[grampy]

29 minutes ago, Stay at home Nomad said:

I get what your saying , however, a book by the guy who stared leashed tracking dogs in NYS, and has been on over 1,000 tracking jobs, says he gets more calls for deer shot by .243 then all other calibers combined !

So to me that certainly , says something about calibers and there effectiveness.

John is the one who got me started bloodtracking with dogs. I've heard him make that statement more than a few times. I've seen the same with the 243, in my own tracking years.

John has also said........

I have no problem with the 243, or any of the smaller calibers ability to kill deer, they will all kill deer just fine, with a properly placed shot. The problem lies with some who don't spend time learning to shoot that rifle, taking shots way beyond their capabilities, buck fever, rushing shots, inexperienced hunters, not waiting for a better shot angle, or just plain old poor marksmanship. In most of these cases, it wouldn't matter if it was a 243 or a howitzer. A crap shot is still a crap shot. That's why I was called to search for their deer.

 

[NYBowhunter]

2 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

So you think the wound channel from a small caliber is not going to be  different enough then the wound channel of a larger caliber enough so that the animal will be easier to track really that's a new one .

 

 

 

You think what you want, a gut shot deer with a 243 or a 30-06 is still going to be a lengthy track job with at times no promise at the end. But you keep on making marginal shots with the biggest caliber you can handle and let me know how that works out for you.

[Hunter007]

9 minutes ago, NYBowhunter said:

Maybe your the one drinking. Again go read your OP, its suggesting a larger caliber will make me a better shot.

No but your starting to make me feel drunk ok

Let me put out a scenario for you same size deer same distance 50 yards same bad gut shot .

Ones deer  shot with  30-06 

The other 243 .

Now which one you think is going to take the dirt nap first ?

 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Storm914

[NYBowhunter]

6 minutes ago, grampy said:

John is the one who got me started bloodtracking with dogs. I've heard him make that statement more than a few times. I've seen the same with the 243, in my own tracking years.

John has also said........

I have no problem with the 243, or any of the smaller calibers ability to kill deer, they will all kill deer just fine, with a properly placed shot. The problem lies with some who don't spend time learning to shoot that rifle, taking shots way beyond their capabilities, buck fever, rushing shots, inexperienced hunters, not waiting for a better shot angle, or just plain old poor marksmanship. In most of these cases, it wouldn't matter if it was a 243 or a howitzer. A crap shot is still a crap shot. That's why I was called to search for their deer.

 

I really dont know how the 243 found its way into this discussion , think noman started that. But in all seriousness,  the op is suggesting that the larger the caliber the easier it will be to retrieve deer on marginal shots which is pure nonsense.  Shot placement is key, wether it be a 30-06 or a 45-70 or a 500. I made no mention of the 243.