New rifle.. What scope??

[LET EM GROW]

1 hour ago, wildcat junkie said:

If you have to skimp, buy a less expensive rifle. A savage AXIS with good optics will perform better under a wider range of conditions than a Weatherby with a Tasco scope.

 

1st thing I did when my son''s friend bought a Savage Axis 2 with a "package" scope was sell the cheap glass on e-bay and mount a dependable Leupold VX-2 3-9x40 on it.

Totally agree, I usually only buy budget guns. The expensive guns i own have been guns i have won the last few years. With the right ammo a cheaper gun can sure be a shooter, I have learned that recently with some help from friends. Ive been taking cheap package deal scopes off and replacing with a low end nikon for $140 for just a standard deer rifle. Been pleased with them all..   Compared to the cheap scope it came with. I have a few cheap bushnells floating around the gun cabinet i should do something with.. 

You cant shoot nice glass from several rifles then pick up a gun with cheap glass.. IT just doesnt work out well lol. 

[Dinsdale]

On 11/28/2018 at 10:11 AM, Al Bundy said:

Got the call I was waiting for.. Melvin Forbes called and said my NULA is ready for painting. Now its time to get serious about a scope.  I need some serious schooling in scopes though as I don't know jack about them.  I am old school in that I had a 12 gauge no choke that knocked down everything I needed it to. (upgraded my 12 to a new SBE3!!! pick up Friday night...)  I been reading and reading about scopes and think I come up with a good candidate. Some back ground. Im getting the model 20 mountain rifle and want a lightweight/compact scope to put on it. I have one spot that I can shoot about 250 yards max but other than that its all going to be within 100 yard range until I can actually find a piece of land to buy.  I don't ever see using this at 800 yards type shooting.

Thinking this scope:  https://www.leupold.com/scopes/compact-scopes/vx-3i-3-5-10x40mm with a boone and crockett reticle. The reticles are driving me bonkers with different types and kinds.

Comments??

 

Here you go.....

Save some $$$ over store bought; I'm going to list these on a bigger board later 

 

[grampy]

13 minutes ago, Dinsdale said:

Here you go.....

Save some $$$ over store bought; I'm going to list these on a bigger board later 

 

Great deal on some outstanding glass!  Would fit the OP's needs perfectly!!!

[Chef]

Here are the Leupold rings as they were made when I started buying them  50 years ago.

 
Now, a few years back, they decided to "improve" them.

 
Who is making these decisions?

Other than a little bit of branding is there if a difference in quality


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wildcat junkie]

2 hours ago, chefhunter86 said:

Other than a little bit of branding is there if a difference in quality


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How would you like it of you had a date with a pretty gal that you had dated before and when you meet she has her name tattooed across her forehead?

How does "branding" contribute to quality? It's tacky and in poor taste. I'm not going to put that on a rifle that I have put countless hours into building and finishing.

For every 1 person that would buy these rings just because of the tachy looking logo they added, there will be 10 long time Leupold customers that will buy Burris rings like I now do. Same quality without the tacky bling.

[Buckmaster7600]

How would you like it of you had a date with a pretty gal that you had dated before and when you meet she has her name tattooed across her forehead?

How does "branding" contribute to quality? It's tacky and in poor taste. I'm not going to put that on a rifle that I have put countless hours into building and finishing.

For every 1 person that would buy these rings just because of the tachy looking logo they added, there will be 10 long time Leupold customers that will buy Burris rings like I now do. Same quality without the tacky bling.

Yea, how dare they brand their product. I hope you don’t drive a truck or own a boat or a motorcycle or anything else. The label doesn’t bother me at all hell if it did id cover it with a piece of tape and forget about it.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Five Seasons]

On 12/3/2018 at 11:37 AM, LET EM GROW said:

Key word was "good" .. Im on a tight budget with a young family so i cant and probably wont ever see what top dollar glass looks like.. 

leupold glass is great for the price and is all most new york woods hunters need. I'd really only consider those crazy price optics if i was going out west. 

[wildcat junkie]

40 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Yea, how dare they brand their product. I hope you don’t drive a truck or own a boat or a motorcycle or anything else. The label doesn’t bother me at all hell if it did id cover it with a piece of tape and forget about it.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

While it might be OK for FORD to stamp their "brand" across the length of a tailgate,  you won't find Mercedes doing the same type of garish mutilation on the hoods of their cars.

And for the same reason. People that appreciate real quality aren't impressed with tacky "badges".

Do you think that stamped logo has improved their product?

Do you think anyone would buy the ring solely because of the logo?

I did a poll on Accurate Reloading and by a 2:1 margine people rejected the new design. I neglected  to add the option in the poll,, but I doubt that anyone would buy solely because of the added bling.

Edited December 4, 2018 by wildcat junkie

[Buckmaster7600]

While it might be OK for FORD to stamp their "brand" across the length of a tailgate,  you won't find Mercedes doing the same type of garish mutilation on the hoods of their cars.
And for the same reason. People that appreciate real quality aren't impressed with tacky "badges".
Do you think that stamped logo has improved their product?
Do you think anyone would buy the ring solely because of the logo?
I did a poll on Accurate Reloading and by a 2:1 margine people rejected the new design. I neglected  atodd the option in the poll,, but I doubt that anyone would buy solely because of the added bling.

Ummm?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wildcat junkie]

2 minutes ago, Belo said:

leupold glass is great for the price and is all most new york woods hunters need. I'd really only consider those crazy price optics if i was going out west. 

.Actually the higher quality glass would be more important in dark timber than in wide open spaces. That being said, since NY is still in the 19th century with their sunrise/sunset deer/bear hunting hours, there really isn't much need for highest quality glass. In Europe, there typically are no specified "hunting hours" so high end European glass has suburb low light performance

One of the major factors in optics quality is light transmittance which is improved by expensive anti-reflective treatments to the lens surfaces.

There are 8 lens surfaces in the typical rifle scope. If each surface only allows 96% light transmittance you will have a 32% reduction in total light transmittance.

Cheap optics manufacturers try to remedy this with large objective lenses but when the objective lens in mm is larger than magnification by a factor higher than 5 it is wasted because the "exit pupil" is larger than the pupil opening of the typical human eye...

[wildcat junkie]

3 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Ummm?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Now, for perspective, increase the size by 600% and permanently stamp it in the center of the roof so it can't be eliminated. 

Edited December 4, 2018 by wildcat junkie

[Five Seasons]

10 minutes ago, wildcat junkie said:

.Actually the higher quality glass would be more important in dark timber than in wide open spaces. That being said, since NY is still in the 19th century with their sunrise/sunset deer/bear hunting hours, there really isn't much need for highest quality glass. In Europe, there typically are no specified "hunting hours" so high end European glass has suburb low light performance

One of the major factors in optics quality is light transmittance which is improved by expensive anti-reflective treatments to the lens surfaces.

There are 8 lens surfaces in the typical rifle scope. If each surface only allows 96% light transmittance you will have a 32% reduction in total light transmittance.

Cheap optics manufacturers try to remedy this with large objective lenses but when the objective lens in mm is larger than magnification by a factor higher than 5 it is wasted because the "exit pupil" is larger than the pupil opening of the typical human eye...

eh, I hunt till dark and i've never had an issue with my leupold. even the vx2. I'd even say my nikon bdc on the smoke poll does just fine 30 minutes before and after. Are there better options? Of course. Do I see the ROI on those vs the sub $400 scope? Nope. Not in big woods NY.

[wildcat junkie]

1 hour ago, Belo said:

eh, I hunt till dark and i've never had an issue with my leupold. even the vx2. I'd even say my nikon bdc on the smoke poll does just fine 30 minutes before and after. Are there better options? Of course. Do I see the ROI on those vs the sub $400 scope? Nope. Not in big woods NY.

I didn't say it was necessary in NY. It just isn't only an out West advantage. That being said, if I am trying to fill a doe tag and want to avoid shooting a spike buck, my Kahles 3 - 9 x 42 will identify spikes at a far greater distance in lower light than my Leupold VX 3i 3.5 -10 X 40.

My tripod set-up offers shots to just over 260 yds and about 75% of the deer I kill are at around 240 yds.

Edited December 4, 2018 by wildcat junkie

[Five Seasons]

15 hours ago, wildcat junkie said:

I didn't say it was necessary in NY. It just isn't only an out West advantage. That being said, if I am trying to fill a doe tag and want to avoid shooting a spike buck, my Kahles 3 - 9 x 42 will identify spikes at a far greater distance in lower light than my Leupold VX 3i 3.5 -10 X 40.

My tripod set-up offers shots to just over 260 yds and about 75% of the deer I kill are at around 240 yds.

fair point for sure. Your situation is not the same as mine for sure, and I'd guess not super common in NY. I also believe the OP mentioned this wouldn't be an issue for him either. What's the price of the kahles?

[Buckmaster7600]

I didn't say it was necessary in NY. It just isn't only an out West advantage. That being said, if I am trying to fill a doe tag and want to avoid shooting a spike buck, my Kahles 3 - 9 x 42 will identify spikes at a far greater distance in lower light than my Leupold VX 3i 3.5 -10 X 40.
My tripod set-up offers shots to just over 260 yds and about 75% of the deer I kill are at around 240 yds.

Why not move it closer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wildcat junkie]

2 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Why not move it closer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is a stand about 70 yards to the North. It only gets hunted about 2-3 times a season when the wind is out of the ESE, Southeast, South to Southwest so as to not spoil the area.

 

By setting up the tripod at a distance I can watch deer and let small ones pass without leaving scent or otherwise alerting deer. 250 yds is an easy shot at unalarmed deer  with a rifle that shoots sub MOA. All of mine except for the Krag are capable of that accuracy.  I rest my elbows  on the corners of the stand's padded shooting rails and could easily hit a softball at that distance.. Both of my scoped rifles are sighted in + or - 3" maximum point blank range. Depending on the caliber, (8X57 IS & 8mm-06 A.I.)  they are zero at 230 and 245 yds and strike 3" low at 270 and and 285 yds depending on which caliber. The 3" high comes at 150 yds for either and 100yd they are between 2 3/4 and 2 1/2" high respectively.

I alway aim for the center of the vitals regardless of range in my woods.

This season both my son and I have watched 4 different yearling bucks from the distant tripod stand and never spooked any of them. The stand also has 5 other shooting lanes radiating like spokes that are 75 to 100 yds in length but deer sightings in them are less frequent.

My technique is to watch the lane over a long period until something worth shooting shows up. There are about 5 deer trails that criss cross that general area. My place is a funnel located between large fields to the West, and a wide river on the East with swamps on the North and South.The main river crossing is right behind my kitchen deck.  Unless the wind is almost directly from the ENE, blowing directly down the lane, I can hunt that stand day in and day out. If deer are present at the end of the day,  I will stay until it gets DARK to slip out of the tripod. The added bonus of these late departures is a great opportunity to evaluate the low light performance of my optics.

We seldom ground hunt the area and do not shoot indiscriminately. We do everything possible to avoid educating the deer.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by wildcat junkie

[wildcat junkie]

3 hours ago, Belo said:

fair point for sure. Your situation is not the same as mine for sure, and I'd guess not super common in NY. I also believe the OP mentioned this wouldn't be an issue for him either. What's the price of the kahles?

I bought the Khales for $500 about 18 years ago. Unfortunately, that model is discontinued.

In those days a Leupold 3-9x40 VX-II was in the $300 range.

IMO $500 is not an exorbitant amount to pay for a scope. It is my upper limit however.

After the holidays, my next optics purchase will be a Leupold VX-3i 2.5-8 x 36 to replace the VX-2 3-9 X 33 Ultralight Compact on my 8X57IS. The eye relief on the 3-9 x 33 is way to short and requires some imaginative mounting to allow proper eye relief when wearing bulky cold weather clothing.

The 2.5-8 x 36 will set me back about $375.

Edited December 5, 2018 by wildcat junkie

[wildcat junkie]

3 hours ago, Belo said:

fair point for sure. Your situation is not the same as mine for sure, and I'd guess not super common in NY. I also believe the OP mentioned this wouldn't be an issue for him either. What's the price of the kahles?

 

2 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Why not move it closer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The long shooting lane was a happy accident. In the winter of 1998-99, 200,000 board feet of #1 white pine was logged off of the 15 acres between the present location of the tripod and the end of the long shooting lane. The area was not clear cut but they cleared a lane up the middle to haul the logs out on  a cradle pulled behind a skidder.

The following summer, as part of the deal, they came in with a dozer and made a horse trail loop around the perimeter of the 15 aces. About every 2 years I take my Stihl 4-stroke weed wacker with a 3 blade head and keep the brush cleared from the lane.  I mow the horse trail that circles the area and forms the last 70 yds or so of the lane at the end of summer every year.

I no longer have horses, but I maintain the horse trails for easy undetected ingress and egress. The deer like to use the trails too at times. It also makes hauling a dead deer out much easier. My longest drag to date was about 20 yds. 

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by wildcat junkie

[Buckmaster7600]

There is a stand about 70 yards to the North. It only gets hunted about 2-3 times a season when the wind is out of the ESE, Southeast, South to Southwest so as to not spoil the area.

 
By setting up the tripod at a distance I can watch deer and let small ones pass without leaving scent or otherwise alerting deer. 250 yds is an easy shot at unalarmed deer  with a rifle that shoots sub MOA. All of mine except for the Krag are capable of that accuracy.  I rest my elbows  on the corners of the stand's padded shooting rails and could easily hit a softball at that distance.. Both of my scoped rifles are sighted in + or - 3" maximum point blank range. Depending on the caliber, (8X57 IS & 8mm-06 A.I.)  they are zero at 230 and 245 yds and strike 3" low at 270 and and 285 yds depending on which caliber. The 3" high comes at 150 yds for either and 100yd they are between 2 3/4 and 2 1/2" high respectively.
I alway aim for the center of the vitals regardless of range in my woods.
This season both my son and I have watched 4 different yearling bucks from the distant tripod stand and never spooked any of them. The stand also has 5 other shooting lanes radiating like spokes that are 75 to 100 yds in length but deer sightings in them are less frequent.
My technique is to watch the lane over a long period until something worth shooting shows up. There are about 5 deer trails that criss cross that general area. My place is a funnel located between large fields to the West, and a wide river on the East with swamps on the North and South.The main river crossing is right behind my kitchen deck.  Unless the wind is almost directly from the ENE, blowing directly down the lane, I can hunt that stand day in and day out. If deer are present at the end of the day,  I will stay until it gets DARK to slip out of the tripod. The added bonus of these late departures is a great opportunity to evaluate the low light performance of my optics.
We seldom ground hunt the area and do not shoot indiscriminately. We do everything possible to avoid educating the deer.
 
 

To each’s own I guess, that sound extremely boring to me. But I’ve hunted all but 3 days since oct 1 and spent less than 10hrs in a stand. Don’t care about accuracy with my guns if they can hold 3 quick shots in a pie plate free hand at 100yds that’s more than good enough for me. I have shot a few deer over 300yds but many many more were within 25yds with about 50/50 being in their bed or running.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wildcat junkie]

24 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

To each’s own I guess, that sound extremely boring to me. But I’ve hunted all but 3 days since oct 1 and spent less than 10hrs in a stand. Don’t care about accuracy with my guns if they can hold 3 quick shots in a pie plate free hand at 100yds that’s more than good enough for me. I have shot a few deer over 300yds but many many more were within 25yds with about 50/50 being in their bed or running.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At one time I would have agreed,  but I have learned to enjoy watching unalmed deer.  One evening I watched a fawn trying to nurse on mama. She was having none of that. It is a time for me to relax and  enjoy nature

Sometimes when a buck appears, it may take several minutes waiting to the right shot angle. That can be a real heart pounder. Other times it can all happen in the matter of a few seconds.

They don't always appear in the open either. The most satisfying shot I ever made was at 120 paces shot through an opening at the edge of the brushline with my Dad's 30/40 Krag. It took me several minutes to figure out a sight picture through the peep sight with 65 year old eyes using reference points between myself and the deer. I could see his nose and antler tips behind a beech sapling. His neck chest and the tops if his legs were visible through the opening. , I took him right through the windpipe face straight on.

Edited December 5, 2018 by wildcat junkie

[Dinsdale]

1 hour ago, wildcat junkie said:

I bought the Khales for $500 about 18 years ago. Unfortunately, that model is discontinued.

In those days a Leupold 3-9x40 VX-II was in the $300 range.

IMO $500 is not an exorbitant amount to pay for a scope. It is my upper limit however.

After the holidays, my next optics purchase will be a Leupold VX-3i 2.5-8 x 36 to replace the VX-2 3-9 X 33 Ultralight Compact on my 8X57IS. The eye relief on the 3-9 x 33 is way to short and requires some imaginative mounting to allow proper eye relief when wearing bulky cold weather clothing.

The 2.5-8 x 36 will set me back about $375.

You know if you really look around you can still find those Kahles 1" scopes even NIB in you are patient for a decent price. Maybe 6-7 years ago I chased an ad for a gun store down south off an arms list ad that still had old inventory in stock!

I have the same vintage 3.5-10x40 but a 30mm tube and a 1" 3-9.

Hell of a piece of glass. Have had the 30mm tube on 4 rifles from heavy kickers to more mundane; and it never disappoints even after vibrating around in aircraft cargo hold for hours and hours. 

[Chef]

While it might be OK for FORD to stamp their "brand" across the length of a tailgate,  you won't find Mercedes doing the same type of garish mutilation on the hoods of their cars.
And for the same reason. People that appreciate real quality aren't impressed with tacky "badges".
Do you think that stamped logo has improved their product?
Do you think anyone would buy the ring solely because of the logo?
I did a poll on Accurate Reloading and by a 2:1 margine people rejected the new design. I neglected  to add the option in the poll,, but I doubt that anyone would buy solely because of the added bling.

Umm it doesn’t say Mercedes on the car but it sure has hell has the logo in the front and back and badges as well. Your point is flat out dumb AF


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wildcat junkie]

10 hours ago, chefhunter86 said:

Umm it doesn’t say Mercedes on the car but it sure has hell has the logo in the front and back and badges as well. Your point is flat out dumb AF


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It Isn't emblazoned across the whole damned car like it is in the rings. Your post seems to indicate that perhaps you are "dumb AF"..

Edited December 6, 2018 by wildcat junkie

[wildcat junkie]

Here's the point many seem to be missing. Product changes are normally made to increase sales. In this case Leupold seems to have missed the boat completely.

A while back I did a poll about the logos on the Accurate Reloading forums.

More than half of the respondents would switch to another product as I have due to the addition of the logo. No other manufacturer of quality rings has such an obtrusive logo in their product.

 

Of those that were not influenced by the addition of the logo, many would not have bought Leupold due to a preference for other products in the 1st place..

So, the fact is,  this product change has and will hurt their sales.

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by wildcat junkie

[Buckmaster7600]

Here's the point many seem to be missing. Product changes are normally made to increase sales. In this case Leupold seems to have missed the boat completely.

A while back I did a poll about the logos on the Accurate Reloading forums.

More than half of the respondents would switch to another product as I have due to the addition of the logo. No other manufacturer of quality rings has such an obtrusive logo in their product.

 

Of those that were not influenced by the addition of the logo, many would not have bought Leupold due to a preference for other products in the 1st place..

So, the fact is,  this product change has and will hurt their sales.

 

30 seconds on the old googler reveals that it seems to be pretty standard to put a logo on the top of a Scope ring. maybe Leupold cheese ain’t slid as far off the cracker as you think??

 

Me I couldn’t give a shot either way I’m a function over form guy I don’t hunt with a gun that I haven’t took a saw to one end or the other of, if a company wants to put their brand on something usually that means it’s a quality product and they take pride in their work something I tend to look for in a product.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk