Hunter Ed course and hunter #s

[steve863]

11 minutes ago, grampy said:

One of my reasons for getting involved with Hunter Education, is not enough instructors to go around. Hence, not enough classes at times to fill the needs, of all that would like to attend. Our next class of 30, on April 27th filled very quickly. (they always do) We give usually four classes a year, that's only 120 new hunters. We are meeting tomorrow night, to see if we can add a couple more classes, "IF" we can get enough instructors. One of these will be in early bow season. It takes a lot of time and commitment to become a certified instructor these days. But coming full circle, and giving back to something that I have loved all my life, was an easy decision for me. But we need more!!!

The course now, is really just a review of the online homework that must be completed prior to attending the class for eight hours. I have been given the 'ethics' and 'firearm handling' parts of this class. There is much to go over in those eight hours, and no time for telling old boring stories. But.....we do share with the class our experience. All the instructors at our club have decades of it. We try very hard to not be boring!!  And try to relate to the young people, in a way to get our clear message through to them.

We split the time equally, between indoor instruction, and outdoor hands on activity. 

We have live fire, for both 22lr and shotgun 20g and 12g skeet, (set for easy straight away shots). Must be at least 12 years of age for this.

Tree stand safety, with actual tree stands and various harnesses.

The hands on, safe carrying, and handling of firearms instruction, using many different situations, while alone or with other hunters.

True to life blood tracking, and tips on how to recover deer.

Hands on with the various types of long guns, single shot, pump, and semi auto. And how they all work.

In my opinion this is much better than just reading a course from a book or computer, then give them a licence.  It is the interaction between the instructors and students, to make important points that will sink in, and be carried to the field with the future hunter. Not that we as dads, granddads, uncles, and mentors don't do a great job. We do!! We are the backbone of our future hunters! But when I took my grandson to his Safety Course, I noticed he listened much more intently, to what the instructors were saying. Seemingly more so, than what I was always saying on our field lessons. And he confirmed through the course, what he had learned from me. 

So my point is, I think we should keep the instruction part of the Safety Course. Done right, it can make a difference with new hunters. I can still remember my own safety course, so many years ago. Given by a well experienced outdoorsman. He said a couple things that day, that I still carry with me to the woods and fields.

If anyone gets a chance, give back, make a difference, and become a certified instructor. No pay, and many hours, but well worth it. 

Not all courses have live fire, do they?   They sure didn't when I took the course many, many years ago.  I guess it might depend on the location where you are taking the course.  The more rural locations might have the live fire. 

We appreciate your dedication to this and I'm sure you do a splendid job, but I still wonder if 8 full hours is necessary for such a course?   That seems like a very long time for a 12 year old to sit thru.  I think it was like 3 hours back in my day.  If someone made me sit thru an 8 hour course back then I may have lost interest in hunting before I ever got started.

 

 

 

[The_Real_TCIII]

20 minutes ago, steve863 said:

Not all courses have live fire, do they?   They sure didn't when I took the course many, many years ago.  I guess it might depend on the location where you are taking the course.  The more rural locations might have the live fire. 

We appreciate your dedication to this and I'm sure you do a splendid job, but I still wonder if 8 full hours is necessary for such a course?   That seems like a very long time for a 12 year old to sit thru.  I think it was like 3 hours back in my day.  If someone made me sit thru an 8 hour course back then I may have lost interest in hunting before I ever got started.

 

 

 

The only gripe I had with the course my daughter took was having 30 kids hand off a gun to cross a fence, 30 kids hand off a gun to open a gate, etc. It literally took over an hour so I definitely think it could be shorter, or spend that time on something else. They did not have live fire but had examples of the different types of long guns and the kids handled them all I thought that was pretty cool/important

[ATbuckhunter]

27 minutes ago, steve863 said:

Not all courses have live fire, do they?   They sure didn't when I took the course many, many years ago.  I guess it might depend on the location where you are taking the course.  The more rural locations might have the live fire. 

We appreciate your dedication to this and I'm sure you do a splendid job, but I still wonder if 8 full hours is necessary for such a course?   That seems like a very long time for a 12 year old to sit thru.  I think it was like 3 hours back in my day.  If someone made me sit thru an 8 hour course back then I may have lost interest in hunting before I ever got started.

 

 

 

When I took my course back in 09 it was 2 full days for both the firearms and bow safety class. Honestly the two classes werent different enough to warrent a whole different class, but thats a whole different discussion.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

48 minutes ago, grampy said:

If anyone gets a chance, give back, make a difference, and become a certified instructor. No pay, and many hours, but well worth it. 

Grampy, I am going to say something and not sure if it is fact or not. Your insight is appreciated. I know all the instructors are volunteers. I believe that there can NOT be a charge for the course per the state. What does the state say if a bunch of folks wanted to hire an instructor to do a course? seems it sure would increase the number of courses available. 

[steve863]

20 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Grampy, I am going to say something and not sure if it is fact or not. Your insight is appreciated. I know all the instructors are volunteers. I believe that there can NOT be a charge for the course per the state. What does the state say if a bunch of folks wanted to hire an instructor to do a course? seems it sure would increase the number of courses available. 

I would gladly pay a fee if there were more courses available.

 

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I think many would

[grampy]

1 minute ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Grampy, I am going to say something and not sure if it is fact or not. Your insight is appreciated. I know all the instructors are volunteers. I believe that there can NOT be a charge for the course per the state. What does the state say if a bunch of folks wanted to hire an instructor to do a course? seems it sure would increase the number of courses available. 

As a certified NYS instructor you are not allowed to take any monetary compensation to give a course. Strictly volunteer. Same as our Deer Search sorties. That said, I see your point Bob. If the situation you described were to happen, strictly speaking for myself, I would come and do it for free. As in doing something along with your Field to Fork program. That is legal. But the shortage of certified instructors is a real concern. Just not enough to go around. So that's why most classes are given at the sportsmans clubs and such, where there are more than one instructor. Very rarely are they given in an instructors garage like they were years ago.

Doing it with a sportsmans club, allows us to have more DEC supplied materials. Like training firearms, a guest ECO officer to speak at the class, a cadre of instructors, each with their own individual input, and a very good selection of printed material.

Not all courses have the live fire. We are set up with state approved ranges. I feel, it really adds so much more to the safety course. And keeps youngsters more involved during their time with us. We actually have to cram a lot in to eight hours. And it goes by very quickly, with a good portion (at least four hours) of it being outside, hands on stuff. That is the kind of learning, younger folks do best at. I have yet to have a youngster fall asleep on me. Not that it may not happen at some point......as I am a boring old guy. But my greatest "payment" is at the end of the class, when they get their certificates. The smiles, fist bumps, thumbs up's are all priceless.

 

[steve863]

1 hour ago, ATbuckhunter said:

When I took my course back in 09 it was 2 full days for both the firearms and bow safety class. Honestly the two classes werent different enough to warrent a whole different class, but thats a whole different discussion.

This does bring up a good point, though.  So, since NYS has the stupid rule that a 12 year old can hunt deer with bow only (not that I'd ever take a 12 year old bow hunting), let's say if one wanted to take their 12 year old hunting for small game with a gun and deer with a bow the kid would have to sit thru about 16 hours of hunter ed.  Much, of it repetitive information.  Man, that's intense!! 

 

 

[ATbuckhunter]

4 minutes ago, steve863 said:

This does bring up a good point, though.  So, since NYS has the stupid rule that a 12 year old can hunt deer with bow only (not that I'd ever take a 12 year old bow hunting), let's say if one wanted to take their 12 year old hunting for small game with a gun and deer with a bow the kid would have to sit thru about 16 hours of hunter ed.  Much, of it repetitive information.  Man, that's intense!! 

 

 

Pretty much. I don't see the need for a whole new class when you can easily get through the bow course info with in an hour. Its mostly shot placement,  how long to wait, tree stand safety and maybe a couple other small things. Pretty much things I help teach every year at my archery club. I didnt mind it at the time because it was all cool stuff to me anyway. 

That being said I think im going to put in the paper work to become an instructor as well. I didn't know there was a shortage and would be more than happy to host a few courses a year in order to do my part. 

[crappyice]

Grampy, I am going to say something and not sure if it is fact or not. Your insight is appreciated. I know all the instructors are volunteers. I believe that there can NOT be a charge for the course per the state. What does the state say if a bunch of folks wanted to hire an instructor to do a course? seems it sure would increase the number of courses available. 

And yet I know a place that has an instructor connected to the shop and would gladly offer more courses but they cannot unless the state says it’s ok to offer the course???


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[Culvercreek hunt club]

14 minutes ago, crappyice said:

And yet I know a place that has an instructor connected to the shop and would gladly offer more courses but they cannot unless the state says it’s ok to offer the course???


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I'd love the particulars on this and be able to ask my DC contacts about it. I find it hard to fathom. 

[crappyice]

I'd love the particulars on this and be able to ask my DC contacts about it. I find it hard to fathom. 

I’ll make some calls tomorrow- since the one guy I trusted with my bow changed shops I haven’t been back to the shop I am thinking of but will check into it again


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[CapDistPatriot]

On 4/17/2019 at 8:08 AM, crappyice said:

See here’s the rub, I COULD go that route (if they were 15).
However, I want to introduce my kids to it correctly. They should spend the seat time with like-minded people, listening to “grampy-esque” people who devote their time, knowledge and experience about the sport. I hate how there are shortcuts or easy ways to success especially for kids today(yup I’m my father!).
And yet getting registered for an actual course within a relatively close proximity and fitting their schedule(admittedly that our fault) proves too challenging.
Supply and demand should force the hand and more courses (or seats or larger facilities) should be available.



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I agree. I will be doing the same thing in a couple years when my daughter is old enough to start hunting.

[crappyice]

Stopped in the bow shop that offer the hunter safety course near me that always books within the day or so it posts a course. Interesting angle: he said because it’s free antis sign up all the time to fill the spots and then don’t show-actual hunters can’t take the course. His thought; charge a sign up fee that is returned upon completion of the course- no cost for those who actually take it and extra revenue if someone cancels and takes a spot.
He says it happens so often that people do not come when they sign up that I should just show up as a “walk in” with my kid and HW complete and they could get him in.


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[ATbuckhunter]

4 hours ago, crappyice said:

Stopped in the bow shop that offer the hunter safety course near me that always books within the day or so it posts a course. Interesting angle: he said because it’s free antis sign up all the time to fill the spots and then don’t show-actual hunters can’t take the course. His thought; charge a sign up fee that is returned upon completion of the course- no cost for those who actually take it and extra revenue if someone cancels and takes a spot.
He says it happens so often that people do not come when they sign up that I should just show up as a “walk in” with my kid and HW complete and they could get him in.


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Great idea, but the lagistics are going to be too much for it to work. Never thought the Anti's would do that though

[Robhuntandfish]

A guy at work just did one last week.  He had 9 no shows to the class.  He said thats never happened before - maybe this is why.  

[steve863]

I noticed a few weeks ago on the DEC website that registration would begin at 4:00AM this morning for a course out on Long Island.  I was up at 4:00 and luckily got to register my son for the class.   By 4:15 there were only 7 seats out of the 30 remaining.  All filled and registration closed by 7:00 AM.  Unbelievable how quickly these classes get filled.   Very easy to miss out on one and then you might have to wait months for another one.