brush hogged and sprayed...Now what?

[Buck_IT]

Hello All,

That season is upon us once again where off season prep is in full swing.  This past weekend, i started the process of clearing spots on my 90 acre parcel for a grand total 3 acres worth of food plots.  With a mixture of brassicas, oats and winter rye intended for the plots, i started the clearing process this past weekend.  A little background on the property:  10 acres of woods, 75 acres of old overgrown cow pasture with goldenrod, dogwood, honeysuckle and breyers and 5 acres of apple trees.  After deciding where to put these plots, we cleared each plot starting with our old faithful 1960 ford tractor with a 5' brush hog.  The next day allowed us to spray all three plots with glyphosate.  With our planned mixture for the plots, we don't anticipate tilling and planting till the end of july/beginning of august.  Because these plots are brand new, does anyone have any suggestions on how to break ground?  We are questioning if the tiller is sufficient enough to the till all three acres, or should we turn the ground over with a single plow.  Also, with all the brush roots still intact within the ground, should they be pulled or can the single plow/tiller ground them up?

Any info/experiences will help tremendously.

Best

[moog5050]

If all of the plants are dead (you may need another round or 2 of glysophate in mid june and again a week before planting), I suspect a tiller will be fine.  I turned over an overgrown grass field for planting last year without spraying (bad idea) with a tiller.  And, with what you plan to plant, you don't need to go deep, just soil contact.  In fact, I suspect you could have good plots without the tiller.  Killing everything and soil contact is all you really need for Brassicas, oats and winter rye.  I don't plan to till this year.  Just spray three times (first this weekend, again mid june and again mid july) with spreading seed in August.  Then fertilize 4-6 weeks later with 15-15-15.

Just my experience - others may have more knowledge.

https://www.whitetailhabitatsolutions.com/blog/easy-no-till-food-plot-methods

[Buck_IT]

13 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

If all of the plants are dead (you may need another round or 2 of glysophate in mid june and again a week before planting), I suspect a tiller will be fine.  I turned over an overgrown grass field for planting last year without spraying (bad idea) with a tiller.  And, with what you plan to plant, you don't need to go deep, just soil contact.  In fact, I suspect you could have good plots without the tiller.  Killing everything and soil contact is all you really need for Brassicas, oats and winter rye.  I don't plan to till this year.  Just spray three times (first this weekend, again mid june and again mid july) with spreading seed in August.  Then fertilize 4-6 weeks later with 15-15-15.

Just my experience - others may have more knowledge.

https://www.whitetailhabitatsolutions.com/blog/easy-no-till-food-plot-methods

Thanks moog,  I appreciate that. I have been contemplating that no till method, i think pending the soil test, we may try the no till option.  You have much experience with the brassicas oats and rye?

[LET EM GROW]

A tiller will work. Just scuff the top couple inches is all. No more. If you are waiting until then to plant.. Just let it grow, and keep it mowed. Keep organisms living in the soils for as long as you can. Better for soils. Keeps them from drying out and being starved of nutrients.. Bare soil for extended periods of time, is not a good practice. Especially if organic matter is low.. 

If it were me, just brush hog it the final time in early/mid july.. wait a week or two, apply glyphosate, wait a week or 2(to assure good kill) then spread brassica seeds  over top and roll it in with a lawn roller. before a rain.. Or if you must, till a couple inches, roll, spread seed then roll again. Save your grain plantings for early September. Id also throw in some clovers or other perennial seeds to establish and keep a nice perennial plot going for you. Great for critters coming out of winter, and going into fall..  and depending on available summer foods, can work for that as well.

Keep us updated sir!

Edited May 7, 2019 by LET EM GROW

[Buck_IT]

25 minutes ago, LET EM GROW said:

A tiller will work. Just scuff the top couple inches is all. No more. If you are waiting until then to plant.. Just let it grow, and keep it mowed. Keep organisms living in the soils for as long as you can. Better for soils. Keeps them from drying out and being starved of nutrients.. Bare soil for extended periods of time, is not a good practice. Especially if organic matter is low.. 

If it were me, just brush hog it the final time in early/mid july.. wait a week or two, apply glyphosate, wait a week or 2(to assure good kill) then spread brassica seeds  over top and roll it in with a lawn roller. before a rain.. Or if you must, till a couple inches, roll, spread seed then roll again. Save your grain plantings for early September. Id also throw in some clovers or other perennial seeds to establish and keep a nice perennial plot going for you. Great for critters coming out of winter, and going into fall..  and depending on available summer foods, can work for that as well.

Keep us updated sir!

I appreciate that.  Ive always had the notion you need to till up to have nice soil contact.  Might be saving us a lot of unnecessary steps, again, thank you.

[moog5050]

1 hour ago, Buck_IT said:

Thanks moog,  I appreciate that. I have been contemplating that no till method, i think pending the soil test, we may try the no till option.  You have much experience with the brassicas oats and rye?

Have done Brassicas and oats.   Not the rye but it should work just as well. Here are some pics from a no till plot last year.   July (week after spraying), August, sept and then oct.  

[Culvercreek hunt club]

The downfall on the tiller is that the soil is loaded with seeds. You can undo all your spraying with a soil turn over and get all the ones growing that were not effected by your sprays.  If your soil is very compact you may need to but I'd suspect not.  Moog hit it on the head. It may take multiple sprays, especially since you just hogged it. To me, the glysophate works best with leaf contact. If the plant like goldenrod is stalked and you cut it offand then  you spray it, it  may not work well on it. You've lost your leaf contact.  The one thing I think most over look on some of there sprays is the use of a surfactant. It really can increase the effectiveness in most cases. Some may have it added and some don't. 

One thing I did notice on your initial write up in the OP was the plants you listed in the brush area.  There are a couple things that some land managers overlook. That is managing for the native species vs food plots. in many cases you can provide more high protein tonnage per acre in the managed native plants than in providing a food plot. And in most cases food plots remove important factors like bedding areas. The managed native plants can actually provide both. The berry bushes and brambles are GREAT. Even though it is invasive and can be a real pain, the honeysuckle provides great food and cover value at times during the year. Leaves can contain up to 20% protein. That is pretty impressive for not having to plant it and it also providing cover.  I guess my one point is you have done a great job and haven't overdone it at first blush.  My biggest suggestion is to have a comprehensive plan. Plots can be instant gratification and work great becasue the deer are visible when using them but you best bang for your buck, sweat equity and habitat quality can be managing and supplementing the native species.

I would also add that if you can, avoid square plots. Irregular shapes promote deer movement while in the plots. 

  I'd also take a hard look and re-establishing the 5 acres of apple trees. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Culvercreek hunt club

[moog5050]

1 hour ago, LET EM GROW said:

A tiller will work. Just scuff the top couple inches is all. No more. If you are waiting until then to plant.. Just let it grow, and keep it mowed. Keep organisms living in the soils for as long as you can. Better for soils. Keeps them from drying out and being starved of nutrients.. Bare soil for extended periods of time, is not a good practice. Especially if organic matter is low.. 

If it were me, just brush hog it the final time in early/mid july.. wait a week or two, apply glyphosate, wait a week or 2(to assure good kill) then spread brassica seeds  over top and roll it in with a lawn roller. before a rain.. Or if you must, till a couple inches, roll, spread seed then roll again. Save your grain plantings for early September. Id also throw in some clovers or other perennial seeds to establish and keep a nice perennial plot going for you. Great for critters coming out of winter, and going into fall..  and depending on available summer foods, can work for that as well.

Keep us updated sir!

Keeping it mowed is ideal.  Not practical in one of my plots.  So I read to spray mid may and mid june to kill it down a bit.  That ensures proper seed contact come august when planting. 

[landtracdeerhunter]

We are way beyond the word wet. Do deer like to eat rice?

[Buck_IT]

36 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

The downfall on the tiller is that the soil is loaded with seeds. You can undo all your spraying with a soil turn over and get all the ones growing that were not effected by your sprays.  If your soil is very compact you may need to but I'd suspect not.  Moog hit it on the head. It may take multiple sprays, especially since you just hogged it. To me, the glysophate works best with leaf contact. If the plant like goldenrod is stalked and you cut it offand then  you spray it, it  may not work well on it. You've lost your leaf contact.  The one thing I think most over look on some of there sprays is the use of a surfactant. It really can increase the effectiveness in most cases. Some may have it added and some don't. 

One thing I did notice on your initial write up in the OP was the plants you listed in the brush area.  There are a couple things that some land managers overlook. That is managing for the native species vs food plots. in many cases you can provide more high protein tonnage per acre in the managed native plants than in providing a food plot. And in most cases food plots remove important factors like bedding areas. The managed native plants can actually provide both. The berry bushes and brambles are GREAT. Even though it is invasive and can be a real pain, the honeysuckle provides great food and cover value at times during the year. Leaves can contain up to 20% protein. That is pretty impressive for not having to plant it and it also providing cover.  I guess my one point is you have done a great job and haven't overdone it at first blush.  My biggest suggestion is to have a comprehensive plan. Plots can be instant gratification and work great becasue the deer are visible when using them but you best bang for your buck, sweat equity and habitat quality can be managing and supplementing the native species.

I would also add that if you can, avoid square plots. Irregular shapes promote deer movement while in the plots. 

  I'd also take a hard look and re-establishing the 5 acres of apple trees. 

Thanks creek.  That's some incredible information.  If this site will allow me to upload my map, i would (i keep getting and error).  I do plan on multiple spraying through the spring/summer. 

We've been studying the property over the last three years and determined the location of plots based on movement, bedding, access and safety for the deer.  We didn't want to disrupt the fields much because like you said, it creates great natural cover and safe travel corridors along with great natural browse. The only downfall is when the apples are down and out, the bucks tend to leave.  With no ag for miles, and 100 acres of timber to our north, we don't know where the bucks tend to bed since sign is very limited.  We do know of 3 doe families who live on the property all year long and have had many bucks on camera through the summer into early November.  This past year we had 4 shooter bucks but couldn't get down in the month of October so by the time we came down in the rut, we couldn't hold them.

In terms of our plots, we set up one large "sanctuary" plot with lots of depth of cover where no stand will be.  We wanted to give the deer a sense of security and food at the same time.  Then we spread out small kill plots through the valley of our property where stands will be set up within the travel corridors going from plot to plot.  We also started the resurrection of all our apple trees with some TLC.  We do have a lot of trees so it will be a couple year long process.  Also, great info on the non square plots, we strategically shaped the plots for the exact reason you have mentioned.

[Buck_IT]

[Buck_IT]

Just now, Buck_IT said:

Red- apples 

Yellow - food lot locations 

Green - Egyptian wheat 

the west end of our property is the ridge where elevations change is 200' from top of ridge to bottom of valley where our cabin is 

[moog5050]

Looks like a great parcel!

[Buck_IT]

1 hour ago, moog5050 said:

Looks like a great parcel!

thank you, its been in the family for 30 years. They bought the property when it was just cow pasture. There was nothing.

[dbHunterNY]

good advice already given. i'd add that your setup is nice in that you can locate a plot that's stress free. that sanctuary plot you mentioned is more than a good idea than anything. just make sure you stay downwind of it if you can, even if not hunting it. too many people burn out a food plot and then only see younger/smaller ignorant deer. they actually reduce the buck age structure using their property. where it's fallow fields it's good to keep an eye out for buckthorn, honeysuckle, or multi flora rose.  if you've got it don't worry so much about getting ALL of it. just attack it the as you have time in a way that encourages certain paths of travel to these food plots. that invasive stuff doesn't provide much benefit at all nutrition wise but does provide cover.  a patch of it can work similar to a patch of switch grass. you can open it up in the center for doe bedding.

[G-Man]

I'd just spray,wait spray again,  and then either burn or remove surface trash with York rake. Your choice of plants does not require more  effort .. No reason to turn until roots rot away 3 or 4 years down road.  The only ground I turn is for corn and that is more to incorporate a cover crop into the soil for green manure. Constant planting of same crop takes a  lot of nutrients out of the soil. So I rotate my corn after clover or wheat/ oats. Chopping and plowing stalks under for next crop.

[Buck_IT]

db - Thank you for the advise. We have the buckthorn and honeysuckle in various pieces of the property.  Trying to limit then but kind of difficult.

G-man - should i wait till everything is killed later in the summer before i rake the surface? it does get somewhat dry in the large plot, but its downhill from a natural spring running along the south side.  

[G-Man]

1 hour ago, Buck_IT said:

db - Thank you for the advise. We have the buckthorn and honeysuckle in various pieces of the property.  Trying to limit then but kind of difficult.

G-man - should i wait till everything is killed later in the summer before i rake the surface? it does get somewhat dry in the large plot, but its downhill from a natural spring running along the south side.  

Yes wait till you kill a 2nd time and let dry.down then remove.. if you can let.stand for week or two after.removal  the minimal soil disturbance should make any more weed seeds may germ you can then spray again and plant after spray is dry. Same day.. best way I know for small seed on new ground. After.planting driving over. Slow with ATV tires  or lawn roller to press seed in for good contact . Then pray for light rain and dewy mornings 

.

[Buck_IT]

9 hours ago, G-Man said:

Yes wait till you kill a 2nd time and let dry.down then remove.. if you can let.stand for week or two after.removal  the minimal soil disturbance should make any more weed seeds may germ you can then spray again and plant after spray is dry. Same day.. best way I know for small seed on new ground. After.planting driving over. Slow with ATV tires  or lawn roller to press seed in for good contact . Then pray for light rain and dewy mornings 

.

ok great. Thank you all for the great insight.  Ill keep this thread going to show progress.  may 25th is next time ill be down there, ill take some pictures.

Best

[LET EM GROW]

Lots of ways to do it sir, those seeds grow with very little effort.. especially Cereal Rye, Ive had it grow everywhere.. bed of the truck, ATV, in a tree, Concrete you name It.  Ive taken golden rod fields, knocked them down July August, sprayed them, seeded them and rolled them and had great results. "Trash" isnt a bad thing. Your little seeds will fall between them and actually be protected, by the trash. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by LET EM GROW

[LET EM GROW]

On 5/7/2019 at 11:31 AM, moog5050 said:

Have done Brassicas and oats.   Not the rye but it should work just as well. Here are some pics from a no till plot last year.   July (week after spraying), August, sept and then oct.  

 

Looks good as usaul Mr! how do you like the no till approach? Love seeing people use it. Its great for most seeds, especially smaller seeds and grain seeds. 

[Putnamcounty Bowhunter]

If mowing isn’t an option and you want to no till without a drill, take a look at the genesis website- they have a foot crimper you can use to kill and knock down existing vegetation.  

They might still be on sale- got mine a few weeks ago for $64.     I planted my summer plots without tilling- just scratched it up a little with a chain harrow then broadcast the seed in ahead of a decent storm.   I was able to put down large seeds like soybeans, peas, oats as well as the small chicory, brassica, and clover seeds and everything germinated well.   Key was waiting for a good rainstorm.   

Fall seed will be broadcast into standing summer plot, which will get crimped down on top of it ensuring good seed to soil contact.   

If I didn’t have the crimper, I’d prolly do the same thing and then ride over it with smoother side of the chain harrow.   Main thing is to break the stems of existing vegetation so it lays down over the new seed.    As others have mentioned, the thatch layer helps hold in moisture, adds nutrients, feeds worms and other organisms, and increases organic content in soil, all while providing the perfect environment for new seedlings. 

When it’s done right, no till/broadcasting can give great results! 

 

 

 

[Buck_IT]

Hey Ya'll,

It's been a while since i gave any updates to this post, so here's the latest.  With advice from this post and various research, the following pictures show's the progress made up to this past weekend.  Picture with UTV shows the day of broadcasting (August 5th), second following pictures show winter wheat and Austrian winter peas with the third showing brassicas.  Now with this being my first plot, it seems the peas did not germinate at all, and everything seems a little behind in terms of growth.  The soil tests came back ranging from 5.8-6.0 ph.  After seeing the growth for the first time since initial planting, i decided to spread 300 lbs of 15-15-15, 200 lbs per acre.  After i decided to plant the winter rye.  I hope this turns out, if not, we'll have to learn from our mistakes.  Any incite to slow/poor growth would be helpful.  I'm sure they will come back around with the cooler, wetter months coming.   Let me know what you think.  Best

 

 

 

[Buck_IT]

has anyone had poor experiences on their first plot? 

[WNYBuckHunter]

1 hour ago, Buck_IT said:

has anyone had poor experiences on their first plot? 

Anyone that plants food plots have had bad experiences. Heres my advice, based on what has worked best for me over the years. Till it. I dont screw around with multiple sprayings per year or anything like that. In mid July, I brush hog it about 6-8" high, ideally give it a week so that things start growing back a bit, and spray it with a very heavy Gly mix. I mix mine about 3 times what is recommended and then add plant oil and 2-4D if I can get my hands on it. Its like napalm. In 2 weeks, it will be dead, and its time to mow it as short as you can. Next, rototill it, then spread fertilizer (again, I go heavier than recommended) and till that into the top 2-3 inches. The next day, I broadcast my seed (each size seed separately) and roll it in.

I am in a very high population area, so this year i installed an electric fence so that the deer didnt mow it to bare dirt before the season started, like they did last year. I have a feeling thats whats happening with your cow peas. Ive done peas before, and the deer were nipping them off as soon as they got an inch tall. I thought they werent germinating the first year.