Human Scent

[Single_shot]

I just might try bow hunting this season wearing a Blaze Orange Loin Cloth !

Humm......Maybe a speedo!

[G-Man]

Yes it is very comparable the point is they killed their game without all of what we have today... bows at 300 fps, they had to get close. not to many cliffs to drive stuff over here in wny... but excavate a site and lots of deer/elk bones... broken points ect. they were able to get close to game period. Lets see the deer drive is still used today.... ambushing prey from treestands..vs them using ground hunting,, using funnels, bottlenecks, yeah its pretty comparable the difference is they did it to survive with out scent control,ect. the thing they were able to do was hone their skill, have an intiament knowledge of their hunting grounds, they knew, how to track, find/create the bottlenecks,funnels and used the wind to hunt them effectively.. Most hunters today do not so we'll try every shortcut there is scent control, the wonder scent attractant, learn to use the wind its a lot cheaper and just as effective if not more.. i know a lot of people who use every gimmic there is out there and still don't get a deer! native americans if they didn't get game they starved!! That said killing game is killing game.... no difference between sport and meat hunting unless your talking trophyhunting , but wait the great stags that were killed back then were revered same as today.... learn a bit from history you'll be a much better hunter because of it. Seems like most of the record book bucks from the 1830-70's were taken with out all the gimmicks and vast improvemnets in equipment we have today. and that was sport hunting then as well. camo doesnt make a hunter, look at all the old mountain men in buckskins... Whats the saying 10% of the hunters take 90% of the game...there is reasoning behind that statement.

[nyantler]

Don't forget that game was much more abundant back then... way more habitat and places to hide.. I'm sure the indians knew about staying out of a deers wind which is most important when hunting from the ground. They were patient because they had all the time in the world to hunt. Different time different circumstances... I believe if you are a stationary hunter and waiting for deer to come to you.. you will definitely need to mask your scent...however,scent control to me and the way I hunt... is staying downwind. I seldom use any scent control and more often than not have a cigar in my mouth when I hunt..in fact I was smoking a cigar when I killed my last 2 mature bucks... I'm not advocating not using scent.. or saying that smoking a cigar is necessarily a smart idea while hunting... but neither has ever hampered my ability to kill a nice buck.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Yes it is very comparable the point is they killed their game without all of what we have today... bows at 300 fps, they had to get close. not to many cliffs to drive stuff over here in wny... but excavate a site and lots of deer/elk bones... broken points ect. they were able to get close to game period. Lets see the deer drive is still used today.... ambushing prey from treestands..vs them using ground hunting,, using funnels, bottlenecks, yeah its pretty comparable the difference is they did it to survive with out scent control,ect. the thing they were able to do was hone their skill, have an intiament knowledge of their hunting grounds, they knew, how to track, find/create the bottlenecks,funnels and used the wind to hunt them effectively.. Most hunters today do not so we'll try every shortcut there is scent control, the wonder scent attractant, learn to use the wind its a lot cheaper and just as effective if not more.. i know a lot of people who use every gimmic there is out there and still don't get a deer! native americans if they didn't get game they starved!! That said killing game is killing game.... no difference between sport and meat hunting unless your talking trophyhunting , but wait the great stags that were killed back then were revered same as today.... learn a bit from history you'll be a much better hunter because of it. Seems like most of the record book bucks from the 1830-70's were taken with out all the gimmicks and vast improvemnets in equipment we have today. and that was sport hunting then as well. camo doesnt make a hunter, look at all the old mountain men in buckskins... Whats the saying 10% of the hunters take 90% of the game...there is reasoning behind that statement.

Well, Im not trying to argue with you, just saying if you learn about how the Indians really hunted their game, you would understand why its not comparable to todays sport hunting other than both (hopefully) ended in animals being killed.

Regardless of that, if you dont play the wind, you arent going to be successful, scent control or not. But on a day where you have variable, swirling winds, scent control will help keep the amount of scent down.

[Doc]

Ah yes ...... better living through chemicals .... lol. As hard as we try to buy hunting success, all these products that we are lured into buying will never replace good old basic hunting skills. It seems like everybody I run into these days has only one thing on their minds ...... "how do I buy something that will make hunting easy?". That's what hunting has evolved into .... a race to buy success.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Ah yes ...... better living through chemicals .... lol. As hard as we try to buy hunting success, all these products that we are lured into buying will never replace good old basic hunting skills. It seems like everybody I run into these days has only one thing on their minds ...... "how do I buy something that will make hunting easy?". That's what hunting has evolved into .... a race to buy success.

Well then, hows your loin cloth and spear with stone tip do for you?

Sure, there are some guys out there that will buy anything to try and be more successful, but using a scent reducer is hardly losing hunting skills and replacing them with chemicals. Its smart use of a tool.

[Doc]

Well then, hows your loin cloth and spear with stone tip do for you?

Sure, there are some guys out there that will buy anything to try and be more successful, but using a scent reducer is hardly losing hunting skills and replacing them with chemicals. Its smart use of a tool.

Oh no ........ to be a real hunter, tools like spears and stone tips are not allowed! Just a swift leap onto their back and a good bite on the neck and wrestle them to the ground to finish them off. That's a real hunter!

On a slightly more serious note, I find it difficult to believe that anyone could seriously argue that the main thrust today is to simply buy some article(s) that will make our hunting easier. People are getting rich off that notion. Actually that has been the case since the mass marketing of compounds ..... and probably to a lesser extent, long before that. I find more emphasis these days on what is available in the sporting goods department than learning more on how to hunt. I didn't really think that was an original observation.....lol. We just want it all to be easier! All this 'challenge' stuff just takes way too much time and effort.

[nyantler]

Oh no ........ to be a real hunter, tools like spears and stone tips are not allowed! Just a swift leap onto their back and a good bite on the neck and wrestle them to the ground to finish them off. That's a real hunter!

On a slightly more serious note, I find it difficult to believe that anyone could seriously argue that the main thrust today is to simply buy some article(s) that will make our hunting easier. People are getting rich off that notion. Actually that has been the case since the mass marketing of compounds ..... and probably to a lesser extent, long before that. I find more emphasis these days on what is available in the sporting goods department than learning more on how to hunt. I didn't really think that was an original observation.....lol. We just want it all to be easier! All this 'challenge' stuff just takes way too much time and effort.

This is scary but I totally agree with you Doc...

[G-Man]

+1 with you Doc!!!

[WNYBuckHunter]

Oh no ........ to be a real hunter, tools like spears and stone tips are not allowed! Just a swift leap onto their back and a good bite on the neck and wrestle them to the ground to finish them off. That's a real hunter!

On a slightly more serious note, I find it difficult to believe that anyone could seriously argue that the main thrust today is to simply buy some article(s) that will make our hunting easier. People are getting rich off that notion. Actually that has been the case since the mass marketing of compounds ..... and probably to a lesser extent, long before that. I find more emphasis these days on what is available in the sporting goods department than learning more on how to hunt. I didn't really think that was an original observation.....lol. We just want it all to be easier! All this 'challenge' stuff just takes way too much time and effort.

I agree with you to a point, just saying theres nothing wrong with using the tools available to you. Deer hunting gimicks have been around for a long long time, and every single hunter in the woods uses them. Camo? Dont really need that to get the job done. Steel broadheads? You dont need those, you could be using a stone point. Any bow other than a wooden longbow? Dont need that either. Treestands, blinds, trail cameras, etc etc. I could go on and on with things that could be argued as taking away some hunting skill or another. It still doesnt mean that a good hunter doesnt use the tools that work that are available to them. If you want to go into the woods and put more pressure on the deer than your presence already does by stinking the place up with human and human related smells, then by all means. Id rather keep the pressure on them as low as I can without staying out of the woods all together.

[nyslowhand]

In my view, if you are looking for a big buck (and not just a deer) cutting down scent becomes more important. Also, as mentioned above, if you are hunting in a populated area, it becomes even more important. Deer in giant tracts of land that see less people seem to be less careful about it.

Don't want to generalize or make a blanket statement, but I think the reverse is true - at least in my experience.

My property is surrounded by houses, roads, orchards and has my constant intrusion daily.

The deer don't even bolt unless you get too close, make movements or threaten them somehow.

Then they only run out of sight (60-80yds), stop and see what you are going to do.

I have actually driven within 20yds of many deer with my ATV and they never move unless I make some hand movements.

Done the same on foot, but not getting quite as close.

IMHO - the deer get used to your smell, patterns and activities and form their lives around your presence.

How about the 20 or so apple pickers invading the orchards daily leaving God knows what kind of scents behind.

At dusk the deer seem to pile out into the orchards regardless of any human scent lingering.

This is for most deer - mature bucks get more nocturnal in these areas and only seem on cam photos or during the rut.

It's my opinion that you'll never be able to get away with any of these activities in those remote areas void of human intrusion.

Majority of the time you'll only see the "white flag" bounding away.

That is unless you get the goofy, curious deer that wants to know what the heck you are doing there.

Think deer are like most other animinals when it comes to conditioning to humans & their intrusions upon the animinal's life.

They reduce their "flight reactions" and overall fear of humans.

[Doc]

I agree with you to a point, just saying theres nothing wrong with using the tools available to you. Deer hunting gimicks have been around for a long long time, and every single hunter in the woods uses them. Camo? Dont really need that to get the job done. Steel broadheads? You dont need those, you could be using a stone point. Any bow other than a wooden longbow? Dont need that either. Treestands, blinds, trail cameras, etc etc. I could go on and on with things that could be argued as taking away some hunting skill or another. It still doesnt mean that a good hunter doesnt use the tools that work that are available to them. If you want to go into the woods and put more pressure on the deer than your presence already does by stinking the place up with human and human related smells, then by all means. Id rather keep the pressure on them as low as I can without staying out of the woods all together.

Yup, you ought to see the shelves and drawers down in my shop if you want to see an attempt to keep up with the latest fad technology in hunting. I went through all of that and I don't think it is any exaggeration to say that I have spent thousands of dollars trying to find that magic gadget that would make my bow invincible.....lol. However, I did eventually grow out of all that, and have nearly stopped all spending except for those broken items that need replacment. I guess there comes a time when most of us realize that some of this crap is just plain crap. You kind of build up a defense against the "sucker for a good ad" syndrome. Others just keep thinking that the next trinket will do the trick and hunting will become easy. And I guess that's what keeps hunting industry chugging along.

[Buckstopshere]

Some of you might not know this, but flint heads can be knapped or chipped to a sharper edge than our steel heads. So as far as that implement goes, they were at not disadvantage.

Actually, there is a lot of trust out there when we buy our heads that they are sharp. Many do not know how to put a shaving sharp edge on a head and trust that when they open the pack, they are all sharp enough. I have bought many heads over the years that were not sharp enough and I have to put a finishing edge on them.

I use basic scent control, that is keeping my hunting clothes in a plastic bag, showering before every hunt bow hunt and washing my clothes in baking soda. Of course, stand selection is primarily determined by the wind and thermals.

In my mind, there is no question that by paying attention to scent control, it ups my chances at getting closer to deer.

Of course shotgun hunting to a lesser extent and rifle hunting...even less because of the distances involved.

Old bird dog trainers often talked about "scenting conditions." Some days, a dog couldn't point a pheasant or a grouse if it was under his nose. And other days a dog could point a bird, while retrieving another one in its mouth! I've seen it happen twice.

Point is...scenting conditions are in the deer's favor some days, and in our favor on other days. I think that is why we all have those occasions when a deer walks up "five feet away...or I could almost touch him." Bad scenting conditions.

And then on other times, we will be on stand and a deer will start blowing 100 yards away and we think, "That deer couldn't be blowing at me! Must be someone else out there... Good scenting conditions.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Yup, you ought to see the shelves and drawers down in my shop if you want to see an attempt to keep up with the latest fad technology in hunting. I went through all of that and I don't think it is any exaggeration to say that I have spent thousands of dollars trying to find that magic gadget that would make my bow invincible.....lol. However, I did eventually grow out of all that, and have nearly stopped all spending except for those broken items that need replacment. I guess there comes a time when most of us realize that some of this crap is just plain crap. You kind of build up a defense against the "sucker for a good ad" syndrome. Others just keep thinking that the next trinket will do the trick and hunting will become easy. And I guess that's what keeps hunting industry chugging along.

HAHA, Ive fell for a few myself. Still have that cough silencer sitting in the basement. I found the best cure for the little cough I had was to quit smoking lol.

[nyantler]

I use to be the same way with turkey... carried every call they ever made I think...and every decoy.lol... now its just a mouth call and my bow...

[A Sportsman]

Good post buckstopshere. I often think about scenting conditions and what affects them. A recent rain, humidity, heavy winds, etc. Understanding how weather conditions affect their ability to smell you is useful information.

nyslowhand, you raise a good point. Maybe I should have clarified what I saying a bit instead of generalizing. I hunt LI and upstate in central catskills. On LI, I've often seen "smart" deer move about the woods relentlessly depending on thier nose to scent check the woods ahead of them. I've also seen them literally run through the woods when moving back downwind to get to thier bedding area. In the catskills where I hunt, there are very very few hunters around. The deer will wind you just as easily up there, but I feel their daily movements/patterns aren't created out of "habit" of avoiding hunters as they are in LI.

[chicken]

I believe in the scent elminators VERY VERY VERY MUCH!!!! I believe you need to be as clean and as scent free as you can get. having said that- YOU CANT FOOL THE NOSE OF A DEER!!

I use Scent-loc and I know I have killed alot of Deer because of it- They will still smell you but in a small ammounts- think it makes them believe you are farther away then you really are.

Again- You need to do what works for you- it works for me!!!

[nyantler]

I have hunted with every model scent-lok suit since their beginning in the 90's.. I have since stop wearing them... not because they aren't great.. I think they are exceptional for scent control.. I just have gotten tired of spending so much time and money on scent control over the years

[dave6x6]

Boy this topic has been painful for me to read. I am the proud owner of a boat load of Scent-loc and am not ashamed to say i don't hunt without it. I'm not foolish enough to think i'm invincible like superman coming out of the phone booth but lets just say it gives me a confidence that some get from a pair of lucky socks. I also have a gore-tex rain suit. Is that alright with you non-lazy, purist hunters? I don't mean to sound snarky, but what is wrong with some of you? Passion for hunting drives people to do what is best for them. And to say it is somehow a quest to "buy" a buck or it's just laziness is rediculous. When you were dating and courting your wife, did you not shower and put on deodarant and maybe even cologne? I guess that would make you a John according to your logic. Simply a guy out there trying to buy love. After all, man has been reproducing for 10's of thousands of years without all these gimmicks so why do ya'll waist your money on things like that. If you were just more of a man then you wouldn't need those things. I mean "real" men just have to show-up with what God gave us and we'll get the job done but obviously the "rest of you wanna be men need to rely on non proven, store bought stuff to make up for what you are clearly lacking as a "man" Do you not see the sillyness of your statements as well as mine? JMHO

[Localqdm]

just currious dave, not trying to promote an argument, but do you believe you can 'reactivate' those suites in the dryer?

Edited September 20, 2011 by Localqdm

[dave6x6]

Yes, and i don't want to come across argumentative so glad you asked. I've read the scientific arguments about the extreme temps that are needed to "purge the carbon of the odor particals" and it very well may be true but i do think that you can re-generate their adsorption abilities to some extent. I'm really anal with my stuff. It only gets actually washed once or twice a year because it's hard to get dirty just sitting in a tree stand. I do throw everything in the dryer after almost every hunt especially headgear and gloves but often outerwear also because i store all my gear in big, airtight marine coolers during the hunting season and often times the heavy dew and moisture in the air makes everything a bit damp and i don't want to store things like that. Every wash and dry cuts the life of the garment and your guess is as good as mine as to when the thing is nothing more than a jacket with the scent-lok symbol on the chest. One thing i didn't mention is i find their garments as comfortable and functional as any other so i would wear them even knowing the carbon is no longer working. Again for me it's like lucky socks. I know i'm mental. I dont want to ever blame my scent control when i miss that chance at a slammin' buck. It's much easier to live with the "it wasn't meant to be" or "that buck didn't get to be that big by being stupid" excuse.

[G-Man]

Killing and courting are two very different things... as for what works for you its 90% mental anyways.. But in the actual world the advertising world makes it seem as if you need this stuff to be sucessful..just like diamonds are forever great add by the debeers company.(actully do you think that you need a diamond ring to be engaged if your potentail wife does maybe you should keep looking). truth is you don't its just beat into you by advertising and media I remember a lot of early videos where trophy bucks were taken with out all the gimmics.. (I wonder if the profession hunters could even hunt as well with out wearing and promoting their sponsers products, seems if your a good hunter your a good hunter to me..) You'll probably have much more sucess playing the wind.. than just wear this suit and hunt.....or spray this chemical and hunt...

Edited September 20, 2011 by G-Man

[nyantler]

Scent-Lok definitely works... I have film footage that I did with the Scent-lok people when they first began to prove it.. my post was not a slam on Scent-lok.. it was about how I have gone from being a gadget guy to simplifying my hunting technique... I refuse to go through the long ritual that I use to years ago... I like it simple now.. truthfully I started killing way more nice bucks when I stopped putting so much pressure on myself to have all the best gadgets and such... now I just relax and hunt and let things just happen... it works for me...

[dave6x6]

NYA, the more i participate on this forum, the more i can appreciate where your at as a hunter. You have certainly reached a maturity in your hunting that i admire. Sounds like you've evolved into the hunter that makes you happiest and that is very cool. To some of the other recent posts, i don't see a big difference between hunting and courting.. To me they are both rediculous comments. And the measure of a good hunter should not be measured by what he wears on his back. By the way, who's scale are we using to judge these so called "good hunters". I'm sure my definition is different than some others. All the best hunters i know use some scent control and the Pope and Youngs and Booners to prove it to "me" . Some guys are more anal about it than others but in this notorious SZ , big buck county, thats the way us tree stand trophy hunters roll.

[nyantler]

Personally I think a good hunter is a guy that enjoys his hunting.. hunting is suppose to be fun... not putting a lot of pressure on yourself to kill something at all costs makes hunting more enjoyable...now don't get me wrong.. I get just as excited as the next guy when I harvest a nice buck... but it is way more about the hunt for me... For years I did the treestand thing and made the same comments as many others on here... no deer movement today, didn't see any bucks today, nothing came close to me... frankly, I just plain got bored waiting around for a deer to come by... so I made a decision to stop waiting and start actively looking for bucks... since then I can honestly say that I have never had a day of hunting without seeing at least one buck... most are small bucks... but bucks none the less... I have had days where I have seen as many as a dozen... sometimes seeing the same buck more than once... in the last 15 years or so I have harvested 10 bucks that most guys would put on their wall.. not because I am a great hunter, but because I decided to change something that wasn't fun for me and do something different that made hunting exciting...some of my best hunts were ones that I didn't harvest a buck, days when I was on a buck that I knew I would shoot even before I ever got a look at him... just the knowledge I have gained about how bucks travel, when they stop to feed, when they travel without so much as a break in their stride, and how they react in different situations is way more exciting to me than just killing a buck that happens by me by accident. Killing a buck for me now is far less important than the story behind how I killed him.