qdma

[steve863]

You're certainly out of line with this bs statement. I've been practicing QDM for years and shockingly, I've never called anyone selfish. Me? I'm not selfish at all. I enjoy working on my property and improving the habitat. How does that make me selfish? Kind of a broad statement, don't you think?

If you think QDM should be practiced by everyone in the state, than that is selfish. You can practice QDM on your own land until the cows come home, but everyone should not be made to. That's the difference here. Those who want the freedom to shoot what they want according to current laws AND not be told to manage the land according to any specific guidelines pertaining to deer are not taking YOUR rights to practice QDM away unlike what your side is trying to do to them which IS telling them what and how they should do things. Why is this so hard to understand by some of you guys?

[Localqdm]

I'm fine with letting everyone shoot whatever buck they are happy with, but shortening the gun season, pushing it back into dec, and a 1 buck limit, and stiffer penalties for poaching would be a GREAT compromise.

[G-Man]

Well the state is trying to get a handel on the population by going to a dmp system vs either sex tags.. Our poaching fines / penalties are a joke. As for a 1 buck limit i like having a chance of gettin a buck with bow and gun or muzzleloader. How many actually get 2 buck a year? A lot of years my "buck"bowtag is unfilled. Pa. has adoped ar's but the main reason behind it was to increase doe take.. their population was way to high ...so guess what if you can't shoot a buck because its not big enough and you want meat you shoot a doe... the by product of this is the buck live for another year. Ny is trying the same idea without ar's via dmp's given out to the guys that want them instead of limiting them because there are a bunch of either sex tags out there they must take into account.....hence the change they want next year... LIke i said before get the big buck idea out of your head and you'll start to understand what qdm was started as ..not as it is though of now...

[Doc]

How many actually get 2 buck a year?

There is a statistic I would really like to see. I have often agreed with the idea of a 1-buck limit, but seriously I wonder if it really would have any significant impact. I don't know anybody who has gotten more than 1 buck in any given year. I'm sure it happens somewhere with someone, but I really wonder if such a law would actually mean all that much.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I'm fine with letting everyone shoot whatever buck they are happy with, but shortening the gun season, pushing it back into dec, and a 1 buck limit, and stiffer penalties for poaching would be a GREAT compromise.

LOL. I gotta have you look up the word compromise.Sounds like a change to what is currently in place for hunters...shorter gun season....further from the rut...one buck limit.....compromise would be them getting something in return for that. You aren't by any chance in volved in the current administration...lol. Just bustin.

Penalties do need to be really stepped up on poaching. Like mnay of our laws the punishments are not stiff enough to be a true deterrant

[Culvercreek hunt club]

There is a statistic I would really like to see. I have often agreed with the idea of a 1-buck limit, but seriously I wonder if it really would have any significant impact. I don't know anybody who has gotten more than 1 buck in any given year. I'm sure it happens somewhere with someone, but I really wonder if such a law would actually mean all that much.

3 time in 30 years of hunting for me. but not since I have gotten a little more selective in the size of the bucks. Hard enough to get one mature buck in close to say nothing about 2. I am betting the records wouldn't show the true picture though. I wonder how many of those "first" bucks of the year are on wives/girlfriends or kids tags. I bet more double are in that category than truely reported ones.

[tj1187]

Loc Shorten the gun season. Push it back to Dec, with cold and miserable weather. Way after the rut is over. Dosn't sound like much of a compromise to me. Sounds Like you are a bow hunter and wont it all to your self.

[outdoorstom]

If you think QDM should be practiced by everyone in the state, than that is selfish. You can practice QDM on your own land until the cows come home, but everyone should not be made to. That's the difference here. Those who want the freedom to shoot what they want according to current laws AND not be told to manage the land according to any specific guidelines pertaining to deer are not taking YOUR rights to practice QDM away unlike what your side is trying to do to them which IS telling them what and how they should do things. Why is this so hard to understand by some of you guys?

When did I say I think QDM should be practiced by everyone in the State? I don't recall ever telling anyone how to do things on their land. If someone wants to legally shoot a deer on their land, it's none of my business. You really need to quit stereotyping everyone who practices QDM.

[steve863]

When did I say I think QDM should be practiced by everyone in the State? I don't recall ever telling anyone how to do things on their land. If someone wants to legally shoot a deer on their land, it's none of my business. You really need to quit stereotyping everyone who practices QDM.

My goodness! Who accused YOU of anything?? Read the original post of this thread. They were making reference as to why the state hasn't gone to QDM and saying that peoples "old" mentality can't be changed. Can't that be interpreted as some QDM supporters wanting everyone to follow it? That is my point. If you want it keep it, just don't push it down everyone elses throat.

[burmjohn]

My goodness! Who accused YOU of anything?? Read the original post of this thread. They were making reference as to why the state hasn't gone to QDM and saying that peoples "old" mentality can't be changed. Can't that be interpreted as some QDM supporters wanting everyone to follow it? That is my point. If you want it keep it, just don't push it down everyone elses throat.

You quoted his post, that's why. Maybe by accident.

[steve863]

You quoted his post, that's why. Maybe by accident.

No, read thru the thread. I made my first post before he ever did.

[steve863]

OK, so here is a question to you QDM gurus. Exactly why must food plots, supplemental feeding or whatever you want to call it be part of QDM? If you go to their website food plot seeds and stuff like that is the first thing that flashes at you. Now I could understand their philosophies (eventhough I may not agree) behind letting smaller bucks walk, shooting does, etc, but why must humans feeding wildlife be part of the picture? The DEC of course has done some double talk on feeding wildlife where they say that it's generally not a good idea http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/74763.html, but yet they have NO problems with food plots. Like I've said in other threads I have NO problem with people planting food plots on their land or hunting over them, I would just like some real justification behind feeding wildlife, period. This is another big crux for many of us who don't buy into this QDM business. We see humans feeding cattle, pigs, chickens, sheep, etc. on farms as a necessity to have them grow before they are eventually slaughtered to feed us. Where and why exactly should humans now feed deer or any wildlife?? Isn't that one of the main concepts behind hunting, where we go out and hunt for free ranging animals, animals that are supposed to be fending for themselves? If we feed them, how are they then different than the cattle, pigs and chickens? Is that the idea here, where we sort of want to domesticate deer? Lots of ethical questions here for some of us. If it's wildlife, why not keep them wild and fending for themselves? Yeah, hunting itself plays into their overall survival, but exactly why must feeding them now be a part of the game?? Surely doesn't make sense to me and as I've said I'd love to hear some of the QDM gurus give their own take on this. Up to now we have generally considered animals that were fed by humans to be domestic animals and those that weren't as wild. Exactly what is the difference now??

[rutstrut]

I am talking about states that have Antler restrictions. I am reading alot how if new York goes to Antler restrictions hunters will stop hunting.I think that's not so if I know that I have a change to shoot a buck that is 3-1/2 or better I will want to hunt harder.give the young bucks a chance.I do practice Antler restrictions. On my land.and so do some of the neighbors. In 3 years what a change it made.

[outdoorstom]

My goodness! Who accused YOU of anything?? Read the original post of this thread. They were making reference as to why the state hasn't gone to QDM and saying that peoples "old" mentality can't be changed. Can't that be interpreted as some QDM supporters wanting everyone to follow it? That is my point. If you want it keep it, just don't push it down everyone elses throat.

"QDM thinkers call everyone else selfish, when the truth is that they are the most selfish lot of all."

Being a QDM'er, you are accusing me.

[outdoorstom]

OK, so here is a question to you QDM gurus. Exactly why must food plots, supplemental feeding or whatever you want to call it be part of QDM? If you go to their website food plot seeds and stuff like that is the first thing that flashes at you. Now I could understand their philosophies (eventhough I may not agree) behind letting smaller bucks walk, shooting does, etc, but why must humans feeding wildlife be part of the picture? The DEC of course has done some double talk on feeding wildlife where they say that it's generally not a good idea http://www.dec.ny.go...mals/74763.html, but yet they have NO problems with food plots. Like I've said in other threads I have NO problem with people planting food plots on their land or hunting over them, I would just like some real justification behind feeding wildlife, period. This is another big crux for many of us who don't buy into this QDM business. We see humans feeding cattle, pigs, chickens, sheep, etc. on farms as a necessity to have them grow before they are eventually slaughtered to feed us. Where and why exactly should humans now feed deer or any wildlife?? Isn't that one of the main concepts behind hunting, where we go out and hunt for free ranging animals, animals that are supposed to be fending for themselves? If we feed them, how are they then different than the cattle, pigs and chickens? Is that the idea here, where we sort of want to domesticate deer? Lots of ethical questions here for some of us. If it's wildlife, why not keep them wild and fending for themselves? Yeah, hunting itself plays into their overall survival, but exactly why must feeding them now be a part of the game?? Surely doesn't make sense to me and as I've said I'd love to hear some of the QDM gurus give their own take on this. Up to now we have generally considered animals that were fed by humans to be domestic animals and those that weren't as wild. Exactly what is the difference now??

Domestic animals are fenced in, while unless you have a game farm, wildlife is not. I plant food plots for three reasons.....help deer herd health, attract wildlife, hunt over. I spend a lot more time doing other habitat work than I do on food plots, all of which helps me reach my three goals.

[steve863]

"QDM thinkers call everyone else selfish, when the truth is that they are the most selfish lot of all."

Being a QDM'er, you are accusing me.

Holy Jesus! When I made that statement, YOU hadn't even posted yet, so why do you think it's only YOU who I am accusing? If you believe that QDM SHOULD be followed by everyone and the state should mandate it, then YES, I am accusing you. If you believe that QDM should be followed by only those who want to and everyone else is free to do what they wish, than you are off the hook. I've got to tell you and I could care less who it offends. Some of you food plotters, QDM, AR, people are some of the most sensitive souls walking Gods green earth. You guys flip out over anyone questioning your ideologies even in the slightest!!

[steve863]

Domestic animals are fenced in, while unless you have a game farm, wildlife is not. I plant food plots for three reasons.....help deer herd health, attract wildlife, hunt over. I spend a lot more time doing other habitat work than I do on food plots, all of which helps me reach my three goals.

Really, that's the best explanation you can give?

[G-Man]

The food plotting is part of qdm as way to increase the heath of the herd as well as enhance the hunters experiance. If you don't food plot will deer survive..yes. but for deer to reach its potential it need top quality food,most of this can be done thru natural browse,but if the population is high food plots in areas where farms have gone extinct (if you will) can and do increse body weights, fawn survival, milk production , and yes antler growth. For those of you that hunt meat and could care less about horns..a heathier deer will weigh more and give you more meat!!! As an overall plan qdm is great, when only parts of it are isolated (anter size, food plot attracting) the biggest problem qdm faces is most uninformed hunters look at as trophy deer management. I feel the group qdma should change its name and try to reeducate the hunting public as to its true intentions.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Really, that's the best explanation you can give?

Just for the record I thik alot of the sheep and cattle out west are free ranging. I think Wegmans even sell free range chickens....lol for about twice the price of normal.

[Localqdm]

Loc Shorten the gun season. Push it back to Dec, with cold and miserable weather. Way after the rut is over. Dosn't sound like much of a compromise to me. Sounds Like you are a bow hunter and wont it all to your self.

This is a qdm 'compromise' (this thread was about QDM) between those who want AR (not me) and those who want to shoot anything. NY has perhaps the MOST liberal gun season (aka--oportunity to wack a buck) in all of n america when you consider the length and timing of the seasons with all other states.

So I see it as a compromise, you shoot whatever you like and you still have a season comparable to every other state, it just is a little easier for a young one to survive.

And Gman I agree qdm is way more than protecting young bucks, its just this is perhaps the easiest aspect that the state could find a way to improve over aspects of increasing cover, planting food plots, hunter management (target selection), etc.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Localqdm

[steve863]

I feel the group qdma should change its name and try to reeducate the hunting public as to its true intentions.

Being an association made up of hunters, how could they possibly persuade anyone that the concern they have for the deer is greater than their personal concerns in trying to make the hunting better for themselves? It probably all goes hand in hand, but anyone looking at it honestly will see what the real reasons behind it was from the very start.

Edited October 14, 2011 by steve863

[steve863]

Just for the record I thik alot of the sheep and cattle out west are free ranging. I think Wegmans even sell free range chickens....lol for about twice the price of normal.

True, but few of us would consider it hunting if we went out to shoot one of them.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

As for the food plot thing. (I do it too) Are we messing with the carrying capacity of the land? If the natural land (modified as we have through development) has a carrying capacity, isn't that what teh DEC is ideally managing towards? Are we inflating the population to a point that could be a problem if the plotting stopped? Let's face it. food plots are not cheap. if the enonomy goes in the tank worse than now how many folks will have the extra cash to do it? (feed the deer vs feed the family). New York has some great deer I think the eastern end of the souther zones is a bit handicapped from what you guys say about it. Out here the hunting is great. there are Mature bucks and the doe take is very liberal. I don't believe we can ever get to the mid west model because of the lack of major Ag farming. the food supply just isn't here and I don't think plotting will make it so.

I know a lot of you guys talk herd health and I think many of you truely mean it. but there and many many guys out there that fly around the banner of QDM and all they see are big racked bucks. And that stereo type (earned or not) is tied to the program. I think the TV shows have hurt this effort more than anything else. The shows are about money and it doesn't take much of a leap to tie the money to big racks. This is what gets alot of the guys frosted.....the drive for $$$ and that is is all about racks (not saying all of you think this way) but as much of our lives are....it is about perception. And when it is about money and horns and not about what many think hunting truely is....it meets resistance. I have no idea if I even made sense...lol

[steve863]

I have no idea if I even made sense...lol

Believe me, you did. All it really takes is an honest look at it and one should be able to make sense of it. I don't know how QDM could ever get away from being viewed as trophy management. Where did it originate after all? Texas. Where else is emphasis on "trophies" any bigger or more money thrown at hunting for that big buck? And YES, I have hunted in Texas, twice, so I do have some first hand knowledge. QDM is guilty as charged from the start, trying to prove themselves innocent will be a monumental task for them.

[outdoorstom]

Holy Jesus! When I made that statement, YOU hadn't even posted yet, so why do you think it's only YOU who I am accusing? If you believe that QDM SHOULD be followed by everyone and the state should mandate it, then YES, I am accusing you. If you believe that QDM should be followed by only those who want to and everyone else is free to do what they wish, than you are off the hook. I've got to tell you and I could care less who it offends. Some of you food plotters, QDM, AR, people are some of the most sensitive souls walking Gods green earth. You guys flip out over anyone questioning your ideologies even in the slightest!!

Did I say it was only me?? I said earlier that you have stereotyped ALL qdm'ers.

Edited October 14, 2011 by outdoorstom