outdoor news

[max3]

Perhaps have the youth hunt on the first two days of regular firearm season . ( sounds like I don't care about the gun guy's) or the last weekend of the archery season. There is a plus to both scenerio's . The deer are in the rut so should not effect them to much & the youth will see a lot of deer.(hopefully) Archers will still have the week before firearm season to get it done.

[Doc]

Perhaps have the youth hunt on the first two days of regular firearm season . ( sounds like I don't care about the gun guy's) or the last weekend of the archery season. There is a plus to both scenerio's . The deer are in the rut so should not effect them to much & the youth will see a lot of deer.(hopefully) Archers will still have the week before firearm season to get it done.

If it is deemed necessary or useful to have special days set aside for a youth hunt ..... IF ..... I would actually prefer to give up the last couple days of bow season, or the first couple days of gun season. to me that would cause the least disruption of anybody's hunting. I know there are bowhunters that highly value those rutty last couple of days, but from what I have seen, success on those last two days is more a case of good luck with incredibly poor odds, than good planning. Generally at that time the deer are simply running random patternless movements that are almost impossible to key in on. So, FOR ME, that would be the least painless time to throw this special firearms season in. Of course I am still not convinced that such an event is either necessary or useful, but there seems to be a lot of "feel-good" pressure to stuff that sort of season (along with every other "catch-all" disturbance) into bow seasons.

[vietvet50]

I llike fast eddies statement in fact I think im starting to like that old guy. Vet

[erussell]

Lets get rid of all the special seasons and just go with a 2 month fill your tags with what ever you want to use.

[Doc]

Lets get rid of all the special seasons and just go with a 2 month fill your tags with what ever you want to use.

I'm thinking that the way things are going, that's exactly the way it will wind up (not in my lifetime I hope).

[Sogaard]

I doubt it, the state makes too much extra revenue from selling the different tags.

[SteveMcD]

I have no problem with the Youth Hunt in the middle of Archery Season. I have no probelm with a shared Primitive muzzleloader season in the Archery Season. Yeah I know... "but we lose a pristine season in the woods". (If that's what you're after go join a Zen Monastery). It's hunting season, and small game and waterfowl season is also in full swing, the guns are already going off. The shared Primitive season in the Northern Zone doesn't seem to hurt anyone. Regarding the "quality" of the hunt.

This is about recruitment and retention, bow hunters, particularly New York Bow Hunters Inc which now has less than 2,000 members state wide, that's less than 1% of all bowhunters in New York ( gee I wonder why). Need to understand that ALL sportsman and public are entitled to enjoy the outdoors and it's resources like anyone else. And they should not have to accept FROSTBITE to do it. We have a younger base and an older base of hunters that cannot pull back a bow, what's wrong with the Crossbow. Technologically, they have no advantage over today's Compound.

I have been a Sportsman Education Instructor for a very long time, I think whether a child is 12 years of age or 14, is a moot point. It depands on the maturity of the child. And there are some 12 year olds that have more maturity than some 15 year olds. But I agree with the early hunt especially on public land, whereby the traditional opening day of gun season may be a bit unnerving or overwhelming to a 12 year old. They also deserve a fair shot and the same "pristine" and "unpressured" conditions as the Bow hunters do, rather than dealing with Blaze Orange behind every tree. They need to be taught and concentrate on hunting and learning, and not zigzagging thrugh the woods trying to find a tree that does not have blaze orange leaning against it. For the older folk that cannot deal with the extreme cold an early primitive season seems like an ideal answer.

Anything that helps the youngsters and allows the older hunters to stay in the woods, I'm all for it. For the record I hunt Longbow only during all the seasons. I tend to agree, maybe we should have a General Hunting license and just hunt with what you want. Some states like Georgia do this already.

It's not my woods or resources. It's our woods and resources. And as they say, when it comes to conservation, we are only borrowing from the next generation anyway.

Edited March 31, 2012 by SteveMcD

[Doc]

It's not my woods or resources. It's our woods and resources.

And yes, we all should honor the traditional time set aside as the proper share of the hunting year that is devoted to the unique requirements of each weapon. For the life of me I can't understand why anyone who is a serious bowhunter would welcome firearms into the season. I realize that they are already there because of small game season and fall turkey season, but it seems that there are those that would use that as an excuse to open the floodgates and forget about special seasons entirely. Is there some secret about the fact that a bow is a close range weapon that requires some semi-predictable daylight behavior? Is there anyone who bowhunts and is confused about the fact that firearms effect the ability to get within proper bow range? Has no one noticed that daylight patterns of deer are broken by the presence of heavy gun pressure. Maybe that is the way some people like to bowhunt, but I believe that most people took up bowhunting for the exact reason that it is a season that offers (and requires) a relatively un-panicked deer herd. I always assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that all bowhunters realize the importance of those things. Of course those that primarily own or control their own hunting lands and who can keep things regulated may be very happy to be free with the season content of the rest of us. It helps if you are not impacted by the regulation changes you would make for the rest of the bowhunting population.

Regarding the temperatures and season comforts, I would just like to remind everyone that special youth seasons are designed to introduce young people to hunting (as it normally exists) so that they obtain a life-longpassion for the activity. They are not designed to give them some bogus idea of what the activity normally is. If they have a problem with the normal temperature of firearms deer seasons, they might as well discover that right off the bat. We're not trying to "trick" them into hunting. I would hope we're smart enough to realize that that isn't going to work anyway. If the orange coats bother them, then they might as well find out about it up front. Firearms season for deer is cold, and yes, it does have a lot of people in the woods with orange coats. That's the way it is ..... no reason to try to pretend that hunting is something that it is not.

[Chevy]

For some reason archery season is under full out assault. When the DEC took away the last weekend of archery season so gun season could start on saturday, the door was cracked open. Give an inch they want to take a mile. Now the gunners want xbows in archery season, muzzleloaders want their piece, and yes we even need a special rifle season during archery season because the flood gates are open. I think all these gimmicks hurt recruitmant and retention. The folks that want then are simply trying to take advantage. Sorry if I'm not "PC" enough for ya all.

[bubba]

pc is not the issue. Greed is. If you want the woods all to yourself, buy land and keep it all to yourself. Then you can control it any way you want. If any of you who keep complaining about this season, were at that age where you could hunt during this youth hunt, you would be all for it. I would think if you had kids at that age, you would be all for it also. However from what I read greed and selfishness take over. Let them hunt. If it ruins your precious hunt, it would be ruined anyway.

[Chevy]

I have two kids under 12 and want them to enjoy the seasons as I have. Not these gimmick seasons bubbahead. The definishion of greed is those that have their own season(gun season) and want more(archery season).

[bubba]

you could not be more wrong there ford. greed is wanting it all to yourself and not sharing. read the posts that is what you and many portray in your posts. The other definition is not wanting anything to change.

Edited March 31, 2012 by bubba

[SteveMcD]

The same old stale argument.. when the first gun goes off deer go Nocturnal. Having been an avid runner for many years, I use to get up at 4:30 every morning and run 7 miles a day, an old habit from my Infantry days. Anyway, I used to run by an apple orchard close the road that had motion detection lights and when I ran by, the outside lights would go on, and I would see a couple of bucks I mean bucks with massive racks with 12 and 14 points, and I guarantee you, no hunter ever saw these two brutes in daylight, ever!

NYB would have you believe after the the first gun goes of in the deer woods, the deer have all packed their bags and left for new unknown territory. Fact is deer don't vacate they just know their home range more intimately than hunters do. And for the most part after few days of the regular gun season, deer revert back to their daily routine anyway. Anyone willing to walk more than a 1/4 mile from the road, will most likely do far better than the average hunter that never ventures beyond the first 200 yards or so.

And yes, I am extremely serious bowhunter, I use traditional equipment and make most of it myself. I do my homework, hunt bow only areas at times, and after the gun season is in full swing, have to get a little further back, that in itself opens up new territory and new opportunities for success. I am just not as selfish as some. I would take more delight in seeing a 12 year old come out of the woods with his first buck, than myself with anything at all. It's a sport. It's called Hunting. Not Killing.

What baffles me is these same arguments the NYB Crowd throws out today, is largely the same argument and battles our Archery leaders fought in the 40's and 50's to get an archery season. With the Advent of the Compound Bow we had the Bear Archery advertisements "Become a Two Season Hunter". if not for the Compound, the Archery Season would have a lot less pressure than it gets today. My point is the introduction Crossbow or a Youth Hunt in the "Pristine" and "Unpressured" woods is not a valid argument. Besides it is human presence in thw woods that Alerts deer more than anything else. The deers biggest asset is his nose. And come October 15 one month before the rut, every Nimod in the woods is doused with Tink's 69 or some other snake oil. The deer know, and will be on the alert it's hunting season!

Edited April 1, 2012 by SteveMcD

[nyantler]

The same old stale argument.. when the first gun goes off deer go Nocturnal. Having been an avid runner for many years, I use to get up at 4:30 every morning and run 7 miles a day, an old habit from my Infantry days. Anyway, I used to run by an apple orchard close the road that had motion detection lights and when I ran by, the outside lights would go on, and I would see a couple of bucks I mean bucks with massive racks with 12 and 14 points, and I guarantee you, no hunter ever saw these two brutes in daylight, ever!

NYB would have you believe after the the first gun goes of in the deer woods, the deer have all packed their bags and left for new unknown territory. Fact is deer don't vacate they just know their home range more intimately than hunters do. And for the most part after few days of the regular gun season, deer revert back to their daily routine anyway. Anyone willing to walk more than a 1/4 mile from the road, will most likely do far better than the average hunter that never ventures beyond the first 200 yards or so.

And yes, I am extremely serious bowhunter, I use traditional equipment and make most of it myself. I do my homework, hunt bow only areas at times, and after the gun season is in full swing, have to get a little further back, that in itself opens up new territory and new opportunities for success. I am just not as selfish as some. I would take more delight in seeing a 12 year old come out of the woods with his first buck, than myself with anything at all. It's a sport. It's called Hunting. Not Killing.

What baffles me is these same arguments the NYB Crowd throws out today, is largely the same argument and battles our Archery leaders fought in the 40's and 50's to get an archery season. With the Advent of the Compound Bow we had the Bear Archery advertisements "Become a Two Season Hunter". if not for the Compound, the Archery Season would have a lot less pressure than it gets today. My point is the introduction Crossbow or a Youth Hunt in the "Pristine" and "Unpressured" woods is not a valid argument. Besides it is human presence in thw woods that Alerts deer more than anything else. The deers biggest asset is his nose. And come October 15 one month before the rut, every Nimod in the woods is doused with Tink's 69 or some other snake oil. The deer know, and will be on the alert it's hunting season!

Very well put Steve

[NFA-ADK]

Good points on both sides... Being a bow hunter myself I am a little bias. Yet I do feel the bow season is being washed away. Between small game, muzzloader, crossbow, a special firearms season for youth and a early bear season the archery season is basically shotgun, rifle and soon to be crossbow season. And in so far as the excuse as me wanting the woods all to myself, that is a false accusation...(probably stated by a land owner who has this...) That would mean no one would use a bow which they can if they want to I am not resticting use of public lands, I just believe each should have thier own season... (big game) Not everyone can afford land... I believe many do not care about this because of that fact that they own private land and are not effected by these laws... And yes I do feel underpowered and in more danger during these times as I am in full camo, yet I will not wear orange as many sudgest here, if you want me to wear orange make it mandatory for every person entering the woods, including hikers, bikers, dec, all hunters and anyone living near any woods during any fire arms season... As many "safety" advocates state it would be safer for all... Can't believe I am advocating BO for all yet If it makes us safer which is proven why not make it law during any fire arms season which is all year... Yes I am trying to prove a point...

I see no reason why we can not have separate seasons and this would not affect retention or restrict youth hunts... As a matter of fact I believe it would retain more bow hunters in general with the knowledge that they would not have to worry about additional fire arms in the woods while they hunt. And yes it would be safer with out additional people hunting differant prey during the same season. This way during any fire arm season many BO users would be seen, as opposed to some idiot thinking everyone is in BO and that must be a deer moving 150 yards away when it is me!

Am I the only one who has said don't shoot during bow season to someone with a rifle?

It's a win win situation for NYS. Separate tags = more money. Better safety with only bow hunters, or only crossbow, or only youth at any given time. THis does not restrict anyone, everyone can still hunt just only hunt for the game that is in season with the weapon in season... How this makes the woods void of any hunters so I am the only one is beyond me...

Otherwise just make bow season, early rifle for kids, early bear, small game, black powder and crossbow season. It's almost thier already... So much for using a primative weapon, and I debated using a traditional bow, lol. To bad spears are illegal...

Specail note to the DEC: You think the unethical hunter with a rifle during early bear is not going to shoot a buck, give me a brake... Just another excuse for a poacher, I was hunting black bear... Sure you are... Lets see your license, thats not yours, thats your wifes... What do you mean you lost your tag, I saw a deer hanging at your house, you applied for anotherone saying you lost yours? OK put the spot light down and step out of the vehecle, NOW!!! Wait is that gun in the front seat loaded? OK place your hands on the vehecle, you have the right to remain silent, I sudgest you do so... OK what's in the cooler?

Sorry when talking about poachers I get carried away...

[NFA-ADK]

I do believe we all need to realize each persons perspective.

If I hunt and have my own land and see people hunting small game when I am hunting deer with a bow then all the deer on my 300 plus acres of land are missing for the week, I will think that small game shooting will affect deer activity.

If I jog 7 miles every morning and see some crazy deer most hunters would litterally kill for after a bunch of shooting in the area and they are not spooked, I will say fire arm shooting has no effect.

We all need to realize we each have our own outdoors viewing of wildlife which will dictate our though process. Try to put yourself in the other person's shoes.

I claimed the deer population was going down in the ADK area I hunt, knowing full well certian area's were abundant with deer yet those area's were off limits to me. Many close to towns and private land were prime food source was availible. I had many on this site claim deer were in abundance in the ADK, again it is your perspective...

If I have a friend in BO that gets shot and killed, you think I care what statistics say about safety and BO. Yet if I am a idiot and almost shot a BO person I would say BO saved his life and use it...

I have passed on more deer bow hunting then I have ever seen in the ADK, yet I have not found one worthy of ADK type status to shoot... Yet I am considered a "bad" hunter by some because of this. Again perspective.

Some bow hunters are brown and down thats what we are here for animal control, others for meat others for trophy as seen by most. All are needed! Yet I hunt for mature bucks wich could be considered trophy by most standard. I am told by my non hunting devils advocate buddy this is wrong. I should only shoot for meat and nothing else and that makes me a bad hunter... Again perspective. I explain the fact that I let so many go and he say then I am not hunting for food, wich is in part true. I do not hunt for food, although I eat my prey. "I guese I hunt for the joy of the outdoors" I explain, and that is where he is accepting as NOT killing an unworthy prey allows me the time with that animal and the experiance of the day... And that is my perspective.

[NFA-ADK]

See what happens when I am not out shooting my bow, Im on here talking perspectives and junk, lol... On a good note my back is getting better... This is better than work day at the archery range thats for sure, at least my back thanks me...

[erussell]

I doubt it, the state makes too much extra revenue from selling the different tags.

I dont think they would get rid of the tags, they would still be there. If you want to hunt with a bow you still buy a bow tag.

[SteveMcD]

^{Here Here... not a great day, raining, not much shooting today! Too much time on our hands! I do agree.. all of these arguments are a matter of perspective. Too bad we can't all get along, we have nothing to fear from the Anti's as long as we fight among ourselves. Not good.}

[Doc]

I believe many do not care about this because of that fact that they own private land and are not effected by these laws...

Not only do they own their own land, but maybe lease it, or family has control of it, or any number of other ways that people can basically have control of their hunting lands. Maybe they simply hunt in areas that have exceptionally low hunter density. Or maybe they just don't bowhunt. But anyway, that quote pretty much says it all. It's the old "I've got mine, the heck with you" attitude. So if bow seasons get all clogged up with extraneous activity ...... who cares? I'll just keep out whoever I want and my bow season will be just fine. And I can also say feel-good things like, "Can't we all just get along?" and call everyone else "selfish".....lol.

Look, I have no real problem with a couple of days of special season for the kids (if that's what people are convinced will save hunting .... lol), but I am getting a bit tired of it always being bow season where they throw these things .... the one season where they do have an impact. We bowhunters are called selfish and bad-mouthed for trying to keep the bow season viable and intact, but the fact is that we have had the bow season become the repository for just about anything that people can "shoehorn" in. Now there is a feeding frenzy going on as all the different interests try to parcel up the bow season for all kinds of uses including firearms. It may all have been predictable, but it still doesn't make it any more acceptable.

[Phillygunns]

Why are we toying around with a youth hunt? If the age is lowered then they can hunt during the normal season. Why disappoint kids who's fathers can't get the time off to take their kids on the youth hunt. There is nothing that says the kids can't bow hunt. Since most kids are not after a buck and are just wanting to experience hunting this youth hunt can come at the end of the season or after it during the holiday break.

[WNYBuckHunter]

The whole idea is to get kids out there in warmer weather, with deer in a more relaxed, feeding type pattern instead of them running all over the place in the rut and/or beginning of gun season pressured non-patterns. The days will most likely fall on a weekend, so people not having the time off would be less likely.

[Doc]

The whole idea is to get kids out there in warmer weather, with deer in a more relaxed, feeding type pattern instead of them running all over the place in the rut and/or beginning of gun season pressured non-patterns. The days will most likely fall on a weekend, so people not having the time off would be less likely.

So the thought is to fool them into hunting ..... lol. If cold weather bothers them, wait until they really find out that deer season actually takes place in cold weather. If they need to have deer relaxed and and something you can pattern, wait until they find out that that was a bogus representation of real hunting seasons. My point is that if you have to soften up what normally constitutes actual hunting conditions, do not expect to be developing life-long hunters. In fact you may very well be developing expectations that can never again be met. My thought is that if you are trying to sell hunting as a life-long activity, then use a little truth in advertising. It is what it is. Otherwise, all you will have created is a couple of days of childhood amusement and perhaps have set them up for terrible disappointment when they eventually find out what gun hunting really entails.

[WNYBuckHunter]

No, the thought is to get them out when they have a better chance to see deer and hold their interest so they will be willing to go out when its cold and the deer are not as easy to pattern. You sure do have a way of twisting things into a negative sometimes Doc.

[bubba]

watch out wny he will pm you and call you names. It is sad when people are not willing to give a couple days for the future of hunting. I guess I just dont get it.