THE GREAT HEALTH CARE DEBATE..

[sits in trees]

So what do my fellow NY'ers think about the individual mandate requiring everyone to have health insurance in America...is it a good thing or a bad thing???? i personally have some mixed feelings on this, but wanted to here from you good folks....thanks

[noodle one]

I feel that it is a good thing and something that has been needed for a long time. There are a lot of people who are less unfortunate. than others who have so much and have been very fortuate in there lifes and need to share. We as a people need to look at our selfs and say ,(BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD THERE GO I).

[Paula]

I feel that it is a good thing and something that has been needed for a long time. There are a lot of people who are less unfortunate. than others who have so much and have been very fortuate in there lifes and need to share. We as a people need to look at our selfs and say ,(BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD THERE GO I).

why does the fortunate have to share if they worked for what they have?

[Mike G]

This speaks for it's self.

http://www.longlongtimeago.com/llta_fables_antgrasshopper.html

[bubba]

well with the track record of such health care in other countries, I will pass on it thank you.

[Grouse]

The way it is written, it's a big mistake. I don't have the time or the inclination to go into many details here. The Supreme Court is going to throw it out on Constitutional grounds anyway.

For those of you who don't realize it, the law states people who are poor or don't have it because they are illegal, don't have to pay for it. The rest of us will be forced to pick up the tab. Everyone will see huge costs for this Obamacare plan, because it isn't designed to help with healthcare costs, it's designed to buy votes for the Democrats with taxpayer money.

Take a look at your paycheck and see how much they take out for Social Security now. It's a lot higher than what they used to take out when it started, and it is taken out on a lot higher income level too. That's the way a government mandate mutates. The government has never been able to take in a ton of cash without spending it frivolously. All the money they take in for Obamacare will be stolen long before it needs to be spent, and the system, like every other system of government, will be broke. Then they will come back looking to take more of your money to pay for it.

It's another government financial scam, just like Social Security, Medicare, Medicade, Welfare, Unemployment and Federal and State Pension systems. I'm just incensed the public never learns from their past mistakes.

And for those of you who don't know it, there are many things in the Obamacare law that have nothing to do with healthcare, and everything to do with government control of your personal freedoms and private lives. I have read enough of the law to conclude, "NO FRIGGIN' WAY!" And there were many more pages of authoritarian government mandates still to read, long after I said that.

Why would anyone support a law without reading it? Why would you believe the law only does what the politicians say it does? Inform yourselves before you form an uninformed opinion.

In America you get what you work for. If someone can, but doesn't work, because the government supports them, they deserve nothing. Make it easy for people, and people will take it easy. Why does a welfare mom keep having kids when she can't afford the first one? Because she is encouraged to do so by a fatter government check. Do you think her children will grow up to be self supporting after learning how to be dependent on the government?

The reason American healthcare, which is still the best in the world mind you, is so screwed up now, is because the government has been screwing it up for the last 50 years.

I could go on with this for days, but I'll try and sum up the main points here.

YOU SHOULD SHARE WHAT YOU ARE FREELY GIVEN. YOU SHOULD NOT BE FORCED TO SHARE WHAT YOU HAVE WORKED HARD FOR, AND SACRIFICED FOR. IF THAT IS ALLOWED TO HAPPEN, THE WHOLE WORK ETHIC OF THE COUNTRY IS IN DANGER.

DON'T LET THE GOVERNMENT TAKE WHAT YOU HAVE WORKED FOR AND GIVE IT TO PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T WORKED FOR IT!

AND DON'T THINK YOU HAVE ANY RIGHT TO TELL THE GOVERNMENT TO MAKE OTHER PEOPLE SHARE WHAT THEY HAVE WORKED HARD FOR! YOU WILL EVENTUALLY FIND YOURSELF WORKING HARD FOR THINGS THE GOVERNMENT TAKES AWAY FROM YOU!

THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT YOUR FRIEND!

I'm done grousing now.

[burmjohn]

Obamacare is a joke

Sent via mobile (tapatalk)

[Paula]

how is it determined who is poor and wont have to pay for it?

[Early]

Universal health care for all Americans can be nothing other than a good thing. Right now, I pay for all my health care. I would gladly reduce my own coverage to help care for someone who cannot afford insurance. As far as the mandate goes, we already have that with car insurance. Sure, such a mandate benefits the insurance companies the most, but if it helps some of our less fortunate...that's good! (But, we still need to crack down on the insurance companies!!!)

As far as the Supreme Court goes....They have shown, with the strip search bit, that they are nothing but a bunch of political hacks. Shame on them for acting in such an Un-American fashion! We need to come up with a system for getting rid of Supreme Court judges. This "Judge for Life" is nonsense!

In a Great Society...which we surely are, or should be...the fortunate shall take care of the unfortunate. If you disagree....you are a Scrooge!

[Mike G]

Early - since I disagree you have resorted to calling me a Scrooge. Well sir I am calling you a socialist.

[sits in trees]

Parts of the new healthcare thing have me wondering but the individual mandate sound like it could be good. alot of people who dont have employer based insurance choose to go without insurance or cut rate insurance, when they get sick and hospitals and providers dont get paid they raise the cost of care on people who have insurance.

So isnt the mandate a way of making people take responsibilty for their own health care so other wont have to pick up the tab for them, i mean im having a tough enough time paying for my own health ins let alone someone else's?

Should goverments have the right to mandate anything?? i think they do. They can mandate that your arse gets shipped off to fight a war in some hell hole overseas. Heck some countries mandate that everyone serves in a branch of their armed forces for a 2 year period which i personally think is great. Make everyone serve including the privileged who often have ways of avioding being put in harms way or have no intentions of ever serving in the military.

We do have mandated car insurance in NY and i think without it we would be in a real mess, we have the highest number of cars in the country and of course the highest number of collisions. How many people in our state would choose to go without auto insurance in NY if givin the option, more than likely millions.

And as far as someone previously stating we have the best health care in the world is no longer the case. We have fallin way behind in our quality of healthcare.

And someone mentioned that wherever in the world any type of mandated insurance was put in place that it was a total disaster, well not in the case of Germany and France who are rated the highest in the world as far as healthcare quality goes. Has anyone been to an American hospital lately, we have infection rates that rival 3rd world countries?

Also from what i hear about New Hampshires mandated insurance system is that it is working out well, even though Mitt doesnt know wether to fight, fugk, or chase rabbits on that one....

[sits in trees]

The way it is written, it's a big mistake. I don't have the time or the inclination to go into many details here. The Supreme Court is going to throw it out on Constitutional grounds anyway.

For those of you who don't realize it, the law states people who are poor or don't have it because they are illegal, don't have to pay for it. The rest of us will be forced to pick up the tab. Everyone will see huge costs for this Obamacare plan, because it isn't designed to help with healthcare costs, it's designed to buy votes for the Democrats with taxpayer money.

Take a look at your paycheck and see how much they take out for Social Security now. It's a lot higher than what they used to take out when it started, and it is taken out on a lot higher income level too. That's the way a government mandate mutates. The government has never been able to take in a ton of cash without spending it frivolously. All the money they take in for Obamacare will be stolen long before it needs to be spent, and the system, like every other system of government, will be broke. Then they will come back looking to take more of your money to pay for it.

It's another government financial scam, just like Social Security, Medicare, Medicade, Welfare, Unemployment and Federal and State Pension systems. I'm just incensed the public never learns from their past mistakes.

And for those of you who don't know it, there are many things in the Obamacare law that have nothing to do with healthcare, and everything to do with government control of your personal freedoms and private lives. I have read enough of the law to conclude, "NO FRIGGIN' WAY!" And there were many more pages of authoritarian government mandates still to read, long after I said that.

Why would anyone support a law without reading it? Why would you believe the law only does what the politicians say it does? Inform yourselves before you form an uninformed opinion.

In America you get what you work for. If someone can, but doesn't work, because the government supports them, they deserve nothing. Make it easy for people, and people will take it easy. Why does a welfare mom keep having kids when she can't afford the first one? Because she is encouraged to do so by a fatter government check. Do you think her children will grow up to be self supporting after learning how to be dependent on the government?

The reason American healthcare, which is still the best in the world mind you, is so screwed up now, is because the government has been screwing it up for the last 50 years.

I could go on with this for days, but I'll try and sum up the main points here.

YOU SHOULD SHARE WHAT YOU ARE FREELY GIVEN. YOU SHOULD NOT BE FORCED TO SHARE WHAT YOU HAVE WORKED HARD FOR, AND SACRIFICED FOR. IF THAT IS ALLOWED TO HAPPEN, THE WHOLE WORK ETHIC OF THE COUNTRY IS IN DANGER.

DON'T LET THE GOVERNMENT TAKE WHAT YOU HAVE WORKED FOR AND GIVE IT TO PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T WORKED FOR IT!

AND DON'T THINK YOU HAVE ANY RIGHT TO TELL THE GOVERNMENT TO MAKE OTHER PEOPLE SHARE WHAT THEY HAVE WORKED HARD FOR! YOU WILL EVENTUALLY FIND YOURSELF WORKING HARD FOR THINGS THE GOVERNMENT TAKES AWAY FROM YOU!

THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT YOUR FRIEND!

I'm done grousing now.

Did you really read the 20 thousand page affordable healthcare law?

[Grouse]

Take care of the unfortunate yes, the irresponsible, no.

I have no sympathy for anyone who's misery is self inflicted. People will take advantage of free healthcare and demand to be cared for when they smoke 2 packs a day, are alcoholics, or practice unsafe sex and get a disease. A person can decide to become an artist that never makes a dime, never pays any taxes, and never has a real job, or packs on the weight until they can't move, or drives like an idiot and wrecks themselves in a crash.

Obamacare will encourage people to shun any form of personal responsibility.

As far as car insurance goes, it is only mandated if you drive a car. You don't have to drive a car, so you have a choice. Obamacare leaves you no choice. The next step for Obamacare is to dictate how, when, what and where you can do anything the government thinks might ruin your health. Think they'll let you keep your guns and still go hunting?

If you support universal healthcare laws, you are simply a fool.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Grouse

[Grouse]

I actually poured through 5000 pages of selected items that show some of the things the law actually mandates. I could have gone through another 5000 pages, but didn't need to after the first 5000 already made up my mind.

Do you think those 20,000 pages only deal with medical and insurance issues? Think again.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Grouse

[Early]

Mike G....and similar "scrooges"...those who decry any form of govt. assistance to the less fortunated...To you I say, when you have removed yourself from the govt. teat...and have paid back everything you have ever received from the govt...and agree to never more receive anything in the way of govt. service...then, and only then, will I listen to you. But, that will never happen, will it? Remember, those who take from the govt...including you, MIke...should not fault the govt. for giving to others!!!

[Grouse]

BTW, military service is not mandated. Women don't get drafted and many men are disqualified for disabilities.

Early, the government cannot give one man something unless it takes it from another man.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Grouse

[Grouse]

I'm trying hard to think if I ever had any form of government assistance, and I don't believe I have. Am i missing something?

I did give 10 years of my time as a volunteer Firefighter and EMT though. So I guess the govt owes me then.

[waterweasle]

Universal health care for all Americans can be nothing other than a good thing. Right now, I pay for all my health care. I would gladly reduce my own coverage to help care for someone who cannot afford insurance. As far as the mandate goes, we already have that with car insurance. Sure, such a mandate benefits the insurance companies the most, but if it helps some of our less fortunate...that's good! (But, we still need to crack down on the insurance companies!!!)

As far as the Supreme Court goes....They have shown, with the strip search bit, that they are nothing but a bunch of political hacks. Shame on them for acting in such an Un-American fashion! We need to come up with a system for getting rid of Supreme Court judges. This "Judge for Life" is nonsense!

In a Great Society...which we surely are, or should be...the fortunate shall take care of the unfortunate. If you disagree....you are a Scrooge!

you're already able to help out people that are less fortunate, you can pay someone elses insurance all you want..............I dont want to be MADE to do it...........auto insurance isnt a mandate, since you arent fined IF you dont get car insurance.........since if you dont have a car, you dont need insurance

[Grouse]

Some people seem to have difficulty differentiating "unfortunate" and "dependent".

Unfortunate things happen to otherwise hard working people. Dependency is achieved by choice.

No one is entitled to any government assistance because they made poor choices in life, especially if they will continue to make them.

[bubba]

Universal health care for all Americans can be nothing other than a good thing. Right now, I pay for all my health care. I would gladly reduce my own coverage to help care for someone who cannot afford insurance. As far as the mandate goes, we already have that with car insurance. Sure, such a mandate benefits the insurance companies the most, but if it helps some of our less fortunate...that's good! (But, we still need to crack down on the insurance companies!!!)

As far as the Supreme Court goes....They have shown, with the strip search bit, that they are nothing but a bunch of political hacks. Shame on them for acting in such an Un-American fashion! We need to come up with a system for getting rid of Supreme Court judges. This "Judge for Life" is nonsense!

In a Great Society...which we surely are, or should be...the fortunate shall take care of the unfortunate. If you disagree....you are a Scrooge!

the auto insurance claim is so silly. First off you do not have to purchase insurance. You can post a bond to cover it. Also if you do not own a car you do not have to purchase insurance. Everyone has health. Also the car insurance is a state to state mandate, not a federal mandate. Lots of differences. call me scrooge. we already have health coverage I pay for that the less fortunate get. it is called medicaid.

Edited April 8, 2012 by bubba

[Grouse]

how is it determined who is poor and wont have to pay for it?

The formula is clearly spelled out in the law Paula. But it can be changed at any time to buy more votes. The law actually specifies "Dimmitude" in it's text. Long story short, Muslims do not have to get health insurance because Islam considers it to be gambling, and that is forbidden. that means there is a loophole for Muslims to avoid ever paying for their own healthcare in America. I expect a huge flow of Muslim immigrants into the US if Obamacare isn't thrown out by the Supreme Court.

[noodle one]

why does the fortunate have to share if they worked for what they have?

18 Years ago My wife had a very bad stoke and when it happened the doctor said that she only had 30 hours to live. The doctor told me to picture an apple and think of it as my wifes brain and then cut the apple in half and that is what happen to my wifes brain.Well she made it through after a month and a half in the hospital and three months in rehab, and then two years of speech. When this happened my wife and I had very good jobs and ins. ,So the cost to us was very little out of pocket.

Now I want to tell you about another stoke victim who was in rehab with my wife and was her room mate. This woman also had a very good job ( RN) and worked hard her whole life and she also had health Ins.. She worked for a very large and well known hospital and her husband worked construction for himself. Now you would think that with her being an (RN) and working for a hospital ,that she would have very good Ins. Guess again. The people at the rehab had told them that their Ins. would not cover her stay and her husband told her that they would have sell their home to cover the cost. All this poor woman did is cry day and night before they shipped her off to a nursing home. There are many people in the same boat and will lose everything if they become sick and have no Ins. That is why we need health Ins for everyone.There are many people out there who have worked hard their whole life and could not afford it , if it were not for Obamacare

[greybeard]

This topic seemed to go beyond just health care for some, so here's my thoughts..

I have heard the pros and cons and I feel that affordable healthcare for all americans is a good thing. We are inundated with the religious citizens preaching about the ills of this country and then they would deny people affordable health care. It is a fact that thousands of people die each year because of lack of health care. Why don't these deeply religious folks feel that we should "care for the sick"

( one of the corporal works of mercy.. I believe). Wasn't it said in the Bible that one of the 2 greatest commandments was to love your neighbor.

I am a senior citizen and hear people complaining all the time about government, but they sure don't return their benefits. It's easy to complain while you collect. I asked one recently if he would turn down medicare after his contributions to the system had been met.. The question was not appreciated...would you turn it down ?

Why not exclude medical deductions on your federal tax forms ? Aren't we all contributing because you got sick.

Why should charitable deductions be allowed..If you feel so good about helping people so be it, but why should the government reward you for your personal beliefs.

Why allow additional deductions for children, it was your choice, so why should you be rewarded.

Locally, why should I pay for school taxes. I don't have kids in school and I paid when I did. And especially why should I pay for school sports.

Why should my taxes fix roads in Alaska (etc.) I'm never going to drive on them.

Why pay unemployment benefits ? If you don't like them then turn them down if you lose your job.

My point is this :

The answer "FOR ME" to the above is that we contribute because we are a civilized society who cares for each other and sometimes we contribute for the good of others. We don't all benefit by everything we pay for.

What happened to "United We Stand."

I'm happy that for all my years I lived in a country that cares for the well being of it's citizens. It may not be perfect, but I love it !!

[SteveB]

This woman also had a very good job ( RN) and worked hard her whole life and she also had health Ins.. She worked for a very large and well known hospital and her husband worked construction for himself. Now you would think that with her being an (RN) and working for a hospital ,that she would have very good Ins. Guess again. The people at the rehab had told them that their Ins. would not cover her stay and her husband told her that they would have sell their home to cover the cost. All this poor woman did is cry day and night before they shipped her off to a nursing home. There are many people in the same boat and will lose everything if they become sick and have no Ins. That is why we need health Ins for everyone.There are many people out there who have worked hard their whole life and could not afford it , if it were not for Obamacare

She had insurance - if she wanted more, they could have purchased. Why should I be mandated to pay for someones else's when they choose not to cover themselves sufficiently for their wants. If she was an RN, she made enough to carry proper insurance with lifestyle adjustments. We all have choices.

Edited April 8, 2012 by SteveB

[Grouse]

She obviously chose a very limited plan of coverage from her employer. Her husband must not have had a plan where he worked at all. Once again America is about choices. BTW, 3/4 of all personal bankruptcys in the US are about being unable to pay medical bills. The bills get thrown away and you get to keep the house.

If everyone gets government paid healthcare, healthcare costs will skyrocket, your taxes will go up, and the government will start telling you how to live every part of your life if you want to keep your healthcare. How hard is that to see coming?