New to food plots

[hueyjazz]

Between me and a friend we have 50 acres of hardwoods on top of a mountain near Swain, NY.   Part of his property border an old abandon overgrown farm field of which he owns five or so acres that border the edge of his woods.  The field is actually much larger, but his strip goes out 300 yards from the edge of his woods.  The soil in this area is absolute crap.  You can't dig 2" without hitting a rock and even then, the soil is rock hard and clay.  I do have ATV's, a rototiller, a Jari brush mower and even a 30 HP small tractor with bucket but it would be a bear to get there.

We would like to put in a food plot.  Mostly for his dad who has hunting over ten years with us and never gotten a deer.  I have the following questions and would appreciate any tips.

1.   I know I need a soil test.  IS this something I can do on my own?  I do have an analytical background and understand basic lab procedure.  Isn't this just test pH and N,P,K?  So, there should be reagents for each?  I read the Whitetail Institute test is BS.  Is there a decent lab to use or figure out how to do it myself?

2.  Do I really want to use Round Up to prepare soil?  I know the manufacturer says it's safe and the lawsuit you see on TV is a joke,  But.......Is this something I want to put in my food chain?

3.  Do I buy the "Special" Deer Food Plot Seed or are there better and cheap options?  Clover is obvious choice but what else?  Gun season for old man only but I don't mind growing deer either.  Not a lot of food sources in area locally other than acorns and grasses

4.  Tractor supply (TSC) for fertilizer and what not?

5.  What implements do you recommend for preparing site?   Even if I have to buy (Under $500)

[suburbanfarmer]

No till option is what i have lately turned into using.

Dr.Grant Woods from growingdeer.tv has turned his property around by simply building soil on rocks.

As for your questions:

1. WTI tests are easy and fast

2. Generic Glyphosate from TSC is cheaper than Roundup and will need to use it to get the plot going

3. Clover you can frost seed soon, add chicory to the mix and then winter wheat and rye are other options.

4. Local feed n seed store , cheaper than TSC for fertilizer.. Triple13 if no soil test done.

5. Cultipacker is on my want list.

 

[Berniez]

1.       Soil testing can be done instore or sent out (if you want a really detailed report) by any local feed store (A GREAT place for advice as they know what grows in that area.)  If you need lime…. get it. You really need to get the pH to be correct as it improves both seed germination and health of the plot.   Lime takes about 2 tons per acre/year to raise the pH level 0.2/year, so it may take time to get the pH  perfect  (Buy the lime in bulk as it will be cheaper than those bags. Most places that sell lime will also spread it for a nominal fee saving both time and money.)

2.       Unless you have lots of equipment, you better use generic Round-Up (unless the real product is on sale) first and follow the safety precautions. I’ve used herbicides for 30 years and the third hand I now have makes farming a lot easier. (come on a little humor is always fun)

3.       My Advice is: don’t spend money on expensive seed until you get the ground ready for a successful field. You can spray it then rough it up planting buckwheat.  Late this summer you can spray again and then spend the money on a good white clover planting it with some confidence of success.

4.       Definitely a local feed store is a plethora of great advice…..not only are they experts, the customers will offer their 2 cents and lots of times it’s spot on.

5.       You can make pretty good cultipacker with a wooden door and some rocks.  I bit the bullet 4 years ago and bought a Kasco no-till  Eco drill. It plants everything from clover to beans and corn. I’ve planted into killed sod or freshly tilled soil. The drill does a great job and it comes with a cultipacker attached.  If I had first purchased this instead of buying a lot of equipment (plow, disc, spring-tooth harrow, cultipacker etc….I would have cut my planting time in half.)

6.       FYI  If you have any Ash trees on the property now is the time to have them cut. They are all going to die so make some money. I took the ash, and some oak, cherry and both hard and soft maple off of 5 acres.  I got enough to pay for ½ the cost of the drill or a great down payment on a 50 hp tractor with a bucket. If I wasn’t so old I could get about 200 face cords of wood off it.  That way I would be  letting light hit the floor and increase browse and carrying capacity of my property.

7.        An old biologist said, “If you don’t have rabbits on the property, you got lousy deer habitat.”  Since then, I am always cutting brush ( knee to waist high) in my hedgerows and always jump both deer and rabbits when hunting them.

8.       Whatever you do enjoy it. In a few years when that big buck comes to your fields the smile on your face will be well worth it.

[hueyjazz]

Thx

Exactly what I wanted to know.  This and a "deer palace" of stands will be my off-season deer projects

[stubborn1VT]

1. I have used WI soil tests.  They are quick and professional, if a bit pricey.  One upside is their customer service.  You can call them and they will answer ANY question.  I will get any soil tests done now through the extension service, an ag or garden store.  

2. Glyphosate is the easiest way to prep soil but not necessary.  I have mowed and tore up the surface of the soil with anything from a rototiller to a box scraper to a chain drag.  I have an acre planted at my house that I did with a tractor and tiller and zero Roundup.  

3. You don't need special seed for deer, but WI products are top notch.  They have spent decades developing their products and their customer service is great.  I don't buy much from them because they are more expensive, but I have never been disappointed in what I have bought.

4. TS isn't a bad place to buy lime, but an ag/seed store is way better for fertilizer.  I buy the bulk of my seed online. Deer Creek Seed, Outside Pride, Amazon and Hancock seed are all companies I have used.

5. A chain drag with some weight on it is the cheapest and most fool-proof.  I pull a 4 foot chain harrow with my 4 wheeler and it's only a 400.  A poly lawn roller is a good investment.  For less than $200 it does the job of a cultipacker and helps with seed to soil contact.  

Lots of ways to get the job done.  From the sounds of your soil I would recommend planting something forgiving like rye or wheat while you make soil amendments.  I had compacted clay soil that I fixed with tillage radishes (diakon).  Their long roots punch holes in the soil to allow air and water/ice in, while adding organic material. 

Good luck with the process.  Have fun.  If you have questions: ask away.

Edited February 12, 2022 by stubborn1VT
typo

[Berniez]

18 hours ago, hueyjazz said:

Thx

Exactly what I wanted to know.  This and a "deer palace" of stands will be my off-season deer projects

This is my "Deer Palace" The view is spectacular. I have a high backed Desk chair on rollers, a desk,  heat, solid rifle rests attached to each window,a urinal that goes into the ground, great WiFi reception (the height and wind makes hearing a challenge so it's just visual hunting. The stairway makes for easy, safe entry and exit. The stand is so airtight that I actually put in a CO detector  in it.  So far My shots have ranged from 15 yards to a bragging one shot kill at 389 yards.   It's been up for 5 years and 12 bucks have been harvested off it. (Yes I let other people use it)

I have a parking place at the stand's base.  The deer literally ignore my parked Kubota 1100 utv and walk on by.  Keep on improving your property and the stand will happen. Good luck and good hunting.

[G-Man]

Simple plot would be spray with gly, rake ( drag) or burn surface trash when dead.  Broadcast buckwheat , come June/ July  broadcast clover  (can add  winter rye/ wheat in sept / october....) roll buckwheat down over top of it.( can use lawn roller or make a 3dt wide board with a rope and simply lay it on and step on it  to crush buckwheat.  The buckwheat suppresses weeds  all spring and ealry summer them provided cover and moisture retention for other sèed . .

Edited February 13, 2022 by G-Man

[wolc123]

1 hour ago, G-Man said:

Simple plot would be spray with gly, rake ( drag) or burn surface trash when dead.  Broadcast buckwheat , come June/ July  broadcast clover  (can add  winter rye/ wheat in sept / october....) roll buckwheat down over top of it.( can use lawn roller or make a 3dt wide board with a rope and simply lay it on and step on it  to crush buckwheat.  The buckwheat suppresses weeds  all spring and ealry summer them provided cover and moisture retention for other sèed . .

If they have any buckwheat, when I pick up my fertilizer this spring, I am going to get a bag and plant it in a spot where my soil is poor.  No gly will be used there though.  I try to keep my venison as “organic” as I can.

 I will chop up the old corn stalks that are there now, with my bush hog, then work it up with the disk.  I will plant the buckwheat in late May, if it is warm and dry enough by then.

In mid-August, I will broadcast white clover and soybeans into the mature buckwheat, then roll it down with a cultipacker.  Just the center of the plot will be done that way.  
 

The soil is much better on both ends, so I am going to control the weeds with a drag over the summer on them.  One end will be planted with white clover and oats, and the other end with white clover and wheat, after September 1.  
 

It will be interesting seeing what clover does the best the following year.  Clover has never grown well in the center of that plot.  Maybe the buckwheat will make the difference.  

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by wolc123

[hueyjazz]

Bernize

Nice stand and not far off my plan except all construction for mine.  My stand will be tucked into an edge of a pine grove that borders a marsh.  There's a prime deer trail that puts a couple in freezer every year and now I've started teaching the young ones.  I dual occupancy will be helpful.

Retired last April and I'm now 63 and we moved full time to property as we bought log home that bordered property.  I feel I'm testing fate going up and down icy ladders.  It will be nice to have a shelter with staircase out of wind, rain, sleet, snow and all the various crap I call deer hunting weather.   In summer it will double as she shed with a really nice view.

Thanks for all the advice, guys.  For a rube this is very helpful.  Sounds like buckwheat is the way to go in field.  Funny, I really hate buckwheat pancakes and buckwheat honey.  

[Five Seasons]

On 2/7/2022 at 10:22 AM, hueyjazz said:

Between me and a friend we have 50 acres of hardwoods on top of a mountain near Swain, NY.   Part of his property border an old abandon overgrown farm field of which he owns five or so acres that border the edge of his woods.  The field is actually much larger, but his strip goes out 300 yards from the edge of his woods.  The soil in this area is absolute crap.  You can't dig 2" without hitting a rock and even then, the soil is rock hard and clay.  I do have ATV's, a rototiller, a Jari brush mower and even a 30 HP small tractor with bucket but it would be a bear to get there.

We would like to put in a food plot.  Mostly for his dad who has hunting over ten years with us and never gotten a deer.  I have the following questions and would appreciate any tips.

1.   I know I need a soil test.  IS this something I can do on my own?  I do have an analytical background and understand basic lab procedure.  Isn't this just test pH and N,P,K?  So, there should be reagents for each?  I read the Whitetail Institute test is BS.  Is there a decent lab to use or figure out how to do it myself?

2.  Do I really want to use Round Up to prepare soil?  I know the manufacturer says it's safe and the lawsuit you see on TV is a joke,  But.......Is this something I want to put in my food chain?

3.  Do I buy the "Special" Deer Food Plot Seed or are there better and cheap options?  Clover is obvious choice but what else?  Gun season for old man only but I don't mind growing deer either.  Not a lot of food sources in area locally other than acorns and grasses

4.  Tractor supply (TSC) for fertilizer and what not?

5.  What implements do you recommend for preparing site?   Even if I have to buy (Under $500)

1. You can get a WTI kit off amazon for $15 and another $10 or so in shipping depending on how many fields. If just one field, take 5 or 6 samples mix in a bucket and put in the bag. I got my results back via email in like 5 days and it's really good insurance that you at least know what you're working with and if you fail, it wasn't the soil.

2. You don't need to use round-up, but a glysophate is strongly recommended for tilling. Just use the right PPE and good hygiene practices when spraying.

3. No you don't, but I find that depending on the size of your plot, it wont break the bank and it's easy to work with.

4. Yes, but rarely exactly what you need from your soil sample, but you can get pretty close. I believe you can also special order fert, but I imagine it isn't cheap to do it that way.

5. mower possibly, sprayer, spreader (hand is preferred), a cultivator/tiller and then a cultipacker or harrow (the later is much cheaper). Depending on what you already own, $500 is a tough budget but doable. I've done some small 1/4 plots with nothing but hand tools.

 

I'm actually making a youtube series (because my kid is obsessed and wanted to try his hand at it). It's not public yet but I'm documenting my whole journey which is similar to yours. It should help when I release it soon.

[LET EM GROW]

Food plotting can be simple, It is the start of your first plot that is the hardest part. If you can get soil tests in a bag and to your local ag dept.. or send them to Whitetail Institute.. I live 10 minutes from Swain, Know the area well. 

My camp is in Avoca NY and I live on the outskirts of Canaseraga. My soil at home is pure dirt, dark black in color.. My soil 30 minutes away at my camp is hard clay filled with Shale rock.. A rototiller gets beat hard on these properties. A harrow drag works best but you pull up a ton of unwanted rock, (more than you even realized was there). Your bes tbet is to get into NoTill Planting. you can do it with a quad, a lawn roller, any type of spreader and a sprayer for Glyphosate(Roundup). 

The idea is to terminate the currently growing crop, spread your seeds into the sprayed area a few days later as the vegetation dies, and roll the dead vegetation over top of the freshly spread seeds with a lawn roller a couple times in different directions. Do this with a rain coming in the future. This is extremely healthy for your soil vs Tilling.. And you also leave the rocks where they belong, and build a healthy soil over top and around them.. Msg me for more details if youd like. I have no till planted for 6 years now.. and food plotted for 2 decades almost. 

[Five Seasons]

most of what i've seen recommended is to spray, wait a few days, till, then spray again. Chances are you've unearthed some weed seeds after tilling.

[Berniez]

Belo wrote: most of what i've seen recommended is to spray, wait a few days, till, then spray again. Chances are you've unearthed some weed seeds after tilling

Time for the second pass of a gylcosate is at least 14 days.  That lag time allows for some of the exposed weed seeds to germinate so a glycosate  will work.  Depending on what you are trying to grow there are other herbicides that can be applied BEFORE any weed seeds appear (pre-emergent) saving you from the need for a second spraying.  I do that with corn and beans.  If you get a lot of rain you may need to spray in late June -mid July.  Even that depends on just how clean (weed free) you  want your fields to be.    As long as what your planting develops a canopy over the weeds you will still get a crop. With soybeans I wait till late August and over seed the beans with cereal rye.  As the beans drop their leaves the sunlight hitting the ground causes the rye to flourish and you'll have 2 of their favorite foods in the same field.  In corn, the weeds offers both deer and small game more cover.  They dawdle longer in that field., thus exposing themselves to you for a longer time during daylight hours. In late winter the animals appreciate that extra cover. In my area (4F) except for clover (boy do they hit that hard in the fall), the deer don't appreciate those "greens" everybody raves about. (In the winter I have pictures of deer walking through  kale, turnips, etc, and tear up the bean field  that is right next to it.  (see attached and figure out what they prefer. 

So see what they both like and grows in you area..... and grow it. The deer need nutritious biomass all year long not just October thru December.