Antler Restrictions - What are your thoughts?

[Doc]

But why this genuflection to the great god of the 3 year old buck? And at what cost?

The price we have paid by demeaning small bucks and the hunter's who shoot them is a drop off in deer hunter's ranks, a big win for the anti's, and frankly, a lot less fun and brotherhood in the sport we love so much.

And right there in just a couple of short paragraphs is the entire reason that I am not really warming to AR and the attitudes that go with it. I could care less about all the genetic modification hogwash, because as Sampotter pointed out, it is a ridiculous notion in a wild deer population. My concerns with all this AR stuff is strictly related to what such a law may do to the already diminishing hunter population. And even the attitudes and the condescention that goes along with the AR arguments, may very well be something that is driving more hunters from our ranks than we even know.

Doc

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Just take a look at the pa deer herd after they started AR it wiped out all the deer.shoot first and then ground check them.I have two guys comin from pa to hunt with me this year.AR is hogwash in most places.I think it would and does work in small areas that are controlled strickly!!Letchworth state park has a good thing goin with ar because it is under intence watch and there is some nasty cover at the bottom of the gorge where the bucks can hide and most people wont go after them!!! Thats where i hunt!!!

[erussell]

Just take a look at the pa deer herd after they started AR it wiped out all the deer.shoot first and then ground check them.I have two guys comin from pa to hunt with me this year.AR is hogwash in most places.I think it would and does work in small areas that are controlled strickly!!Letchworth state park has a good thing goin with ar because it is under intence watch and there is some nasty cover at the bottom of the gorge where the bucks can hide and most people wont go after them!!! Thats where i hunt!!!

So far This yr I have asked several PA hunters I have run across how they like AR's Since I am sort of leaning toward being for it. And all 6 said they hated it when it 1st started out. They had to pass on a lot of deer that they usually would shoot. But something cool happened after the 3rd yr they started killing deer with nice racks and every one of them I have asked, except 1 who didn't really care what he shot as long as he could eat it, are now for the restrictions. They said they don't see as many deer as they use to when the herd was severely overpopulated, but they just keep getting bigger, to the point most dont even bother shooting basket racked 8's anymore because they have trail cam pics of monsters running around. One guy showed me pics of the 2 he killed a few yrs back and said before AR was implemented he had never seen anything that came close to them. And this is in the Northern mountains area on the border of Broome and Tioga county. My cousin ownes land that borders Pa that I havent hunted in a few yrs, I might need to give it a second look. What I wish NY would have done is make it manditory for a few yrs to check your deer in at a check station in the pilot areas in NY that have AR so we could get some idea of the changes. The only people you ever hear anything from in these areas are the ones who are against it. Everyone else is being really tight lipped I wonder why that is?

[burmjohn]

The other problem is the ones that are against it for the most part are those who are not in the WMU with AR. Granted, they have their valid reasons for not wanting AR, however, look at the thread for those who actually have AR, its pretty one sided.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I am sure pa is no different than ny!!Some areas have deer and some dont!!!The fellas i know are down near altoona and that is about 3 hrs from the ny/pa line!!!

[Doc]

But something cool happened after the 3rd yr they started killing deer with nice racks and every one of them I have asked, except 1

Actually, I could say the same thing. The only problem is that we don't have AR. Yes indeed, I have seen more larger racked deer in recent years, and it has been a significant difference too. I don't have any AR program to point to, but I do believe that hunter pressure has diminished significantly to the point where an awful lot of bucks are escaping harvest. In our case unlike PA, general deer populations are coming up too primarily because permits have been cut I suppose. Notice that none of this has a thing to do with AR. That's the problem with anecdotal endorsements of any policy. You always have to wonder whether they are attributing the right causes to what they are seeing.

Doc

[Big John]

Being that I hunt to fill my freezer I have no opinion at this point other than, if one is a rack hunter then antler restrictions are for you!

[dave7114]

I agree with Big John. I hunt for my freezer. But I enjoy just being in the woods more than actually shooting the animal. My heart pounds even when i have a doe coming close while bow hunting from the ground. I know anyone that has had any buck come in especially a big buck really gets excited, and who wouldn't want a wall hanger. They dont taste as good when they get older. Yes marinating they will still be tasty.  I also believe that a large majority of so called trophy hunters dont even eat the meat and are usually the same hunters that complain if you shoot a small buck or even a doe.  In fact when i take a new person hunting with us we try to get a deer 1st day to cook. If the new guy doesn't eat or like it he will never be invited back.  had this happen with 2 friends so far.  Now that ive ranted. Ill actually say im for AR  because i can always get my meat from a doe, and we dont need to be divided as hunters otherwise the liberals will win.

[erussell]

I like to fill my freezer faster with big bucks.

[RangerClay]

If you get a chance, read the editorial in the Sept. 2010 Outdoor Life.  Nice to see a national magazine take a step back from AR.

[wztirem]

I was watching a hunting program recently and someone on the program said something to the effect that because the doe population so outnumbers the buck population, "big bucks" because of hunting pressure are content to mate nocturnally with does. The need to bump /chase  does is a waste of energy for mature bucks because of the overabundance of doe. Is the answer to seeing more bigger bucks is  to kill more does and increase competition thus giving hunters more of a chance to kill a big buck? Well, I do not know, LOL.

Its been my experience, that I see an inordinate amount of does compared to bucks, despite what the DEC says " the population of does-bucks is 50/50".

These days, I do not know what to think!

[Doc]

I have noticed that for every deer management, hunting, or behavior theory, there seems to always be at least one other theory somewhere that contradicts it. I have very little faith in any of these theories regardless of where they come from or what so-called credentials they come up with.

All these things make good reading but usually wind up to be people trying to apply logic to things that are by nature illogical.

[biggamefish]

  When it comes down to it nobody should be able to tell the next guy what he can or can't shoot.  If you don't want to shoot small deer than don't. 

  I have been reading this on and off and I know I missed a few posts here and there but I do have to say I would hate to see people shooting deer because they see horns then going up to them finding out that it was too small and just letting it go to waste.  I don't know how often this would happen but I am sure it would in same cases.

[SteveB]

I like to fill my freezer faster with big bucks.

Me too - that's why I judge them by body size and not the number of points on their head.

Much better indicator of availble lbs of meat.

[sampotter]

The situations in PA where hunters shoot a buck and then leave it because it is too small is against the law. My support of ARs is because it causes hunters to positively ID their target before pulling the trigger. Idiots that shoot brown movement don't deserve to be in the woods or own a gun. They're just plain dangerous to themselves and anyone else. If you had to verify that a buck met a certain criteria you also subconciously ID'd it as an actual deer.

[steve863]

The situations in PA where hunters shoot a buck and then leave it because it is too small is against the law. My support of ARs is because it causes hunters to positively ID their target before pulling the trigger. Idiots that shoot brown movement don't deserve to be in the woods or own a gun. They're just plain dangerous to themselves and anyone else. If you had to verify that a buck met a certain criteria you also subconciously ID'd it as an actual deer.

Even with these idiots out there, the number of shooting accidents while hunting is very small.  I don't see how AR's would stop idiots from shooting, or help improve the accident rate which is already small.  People want AR's because they think it will produce more and bigger bucks.  That is the REAL reason they want them.  Anything else they may say about AR's is surely not the main reason they want them implemented.  Nice try, though.

[Fairgame]

People that are in an antler restricted zone dont think there are bigger bucks, they know it!!

[SteveB]

Pa has both AR AND mandatory AR - both are supposed to be safer.

Seems like together, Pa's accident rate should be next to nothing and cetainley far below NY's

who have neither. Doesn't seem to be working that way.

[steve863]

People that are in an antler restricted zone dont think there are bigger bucks, they know it!!

All I KNOW is that I see way bigger bucks being taken in non AR areas around NYS.  Plus the guys who don't care what type of buck they shoot can still take the spike of forkhorn if they so desire. That is how it should be.

[Doc]

All I KNOW is that I see way bigger bucks being taken in non AR areas around NYS.  Plus the guys who don't care what type of buck they shoot can still take the spike of forkhorn if they so desire. That is how it should be.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was saying. I have been seeing older bucks being taken in our area in recent years and we're not even close to an AR unit. There are many reasons why deer size would suddenly jump and in our case, AR is definitely NOT one of them.

Doc

[sampotter]

I went hunting with a group of the aforementioned idiots ONCE, never again. Bullets flying everywhere, shooting at deer silhouetted against houses. SAFETY is one good selling point of ARs. I want ARs for the same reason other people want them, but you can't argue that safety is important. But- if you are happy with your spikes and forkhorns and believe you can never do better, have at it. I'm happy with MATURE bucks, not SCORES. Does taste better than any buck anyhow.

[steve863]

Does taste better than any buck anyhow.

Yeah, and in a couple of units where AR's are in effect in NYS chances of getting a doe permit are slim to none.  I guess these hunters will be eating their tags instead?

[Fairgame]

I only eat tags I choose to eat, not cause I didnt have the opportunity.  Plenty of bucks and does during archery, and come rifle I dont shoot a buck unless its bigger than the one I already shot.  I normally dont get to hunt muzzleloader cause I dont have any tags left from archery season

[JCTheGC]

People that are in an antler restricted zone dont think there are bigger bucks, they know it!!

All I KNOW is that I see way bigger bucks being taken in non AR areas around NYS.  Plus the guys who don't care what type of buck they shoot can still take the spike of forkhorn if they so desire. That is how it should be.

NYS is a big area, Where are you? 

Compairing a NON-AR area to WNY or other area's were bucks tend to be larger and older is not apples to apples.

Compair a WMU in 3 with AR to a WMU in 3 with out AR then there is a study, other then that your comment is worthless.  I see it works in my area with AR,  as do others.  Again what others said, those in the WMU with AR love it.  Those who reject it are those in a non AR WMU. 

No I you can not eat bone, do I care what I shoot, nah not really.  But it sure if fun seeing some bigger bucks now with AR in WMU 3!  If you don't want it, go fight it all you want in your WMU, just don't touch mine.

[burmjohn]

I can only talk from first hand experience, since both my uncles property and my new property are in AR zones.  Now I have not hunted my property yet, but the trail cam photo's are amazing.  My uncle (and me) as of the last two years has seen quite an improvement in larger antlered bucks.  Time will tell I guess.