Doc

I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as it doesn't come across like an attempt to piss-off half the membership ..... lol. I have no problems with QDM, other than the occasional times a few practitioners get a bit evangelistic about it and become a bit "preachy". I do see QDM as being yet another choice for hunters/landowners to be involved in herd management to whatever extent they are willing and capable. I know that we are having an increasing access problem, but I am not ready to lay that on the backs of those that practice QDM. In fact, if I were to lay blame on anyone for access problems I would have to put it back on hunters who have looked at trespass as an entitlement and who have been rather abusive toward landowners in terms of the way they have treated the land. There's always a reason behind those posted signs. Usually there is some episode of abuse that has forced the landowner to spend cash and effort to put up and maintain all those signs.

Some of the more than 110 permanent ground stands that I have built over the years. Some of these are over 20 years old, and just refreshed a bit each year. My "almost guaranteed" gun stand Hard to see the stand, of course that's the idea ...lol. Shooting lane for above stand Some stands are already put there for me...lol: This tree is 4' in diameter This old beech overlooks a mineral seep. Almost like a treestand overlooking that "seep" below.

Interesting ..... My computer doesn't want to display the image of the video. I could hear the audio just fine, but the picture was heavily ghosted to the point where I couldn't figure out what the heck was going on. I did get the gist that it was one crazy drive. Not my personal favorite way to hunt. Driving used to be very popular back in the 50's and early 60's when we still had some defined fields and woodlots down in the valley. I always stayed clear of the drives themselves, but I also knew the spots on the side hills where the deer would funnel through as the guys pushed them out almost a quarter of a mile down the hill ..... lol. Thanksgiving day it was almost guaranteed that the big outfits would come in and drive the thickets down through the valley. So I would make sure that I was in that spot up on the side hill.

I think if I were to take on the responsibility of mentoring some young kid, I would probably need to get some remedial education myself just to get updated. I personally wouldn't mind sitting in on a class as a mandatory requirement for accompanying one of these super young people. I think that if the mentor is updated on all the latest mandated training, the hunter-age concerns go by the wayside. Seriously, I worry more about the outdated and forgotten safety knowledge of the mentors than the kids on this issue. Some of the crazy things that I have seen from hunters makes me wonder if they should be in charge of any kid at any age.

A bunch of years ago, Gene and Barry Wentzel put out a video entitle bowhunting October Whitetails. They had a segment in there about hunting cornfields. I am not in an agricultural area anymore, so I have never had an opportunity to try it out. But basically it involved still hunting the corn slowly, a row at a time and catching deer bedded down right in the middle of the corn. Apparently a steady wind covers any noise that you might make. It looked kind of interesting.

Years ago, I invested in a multi-fletcher. I make and maintain all my own arrows. Have done so for decades. I suppose you can just "stick" it back on, but you may be setting yourself up for sending a few more arrows through the fence gap ..... lol. Also, I don't know how much helix or offset you have on your fletching, but vanes really want to stay straight unless being held with a jig-clamp. It may not be as easy as you are thinking to get that vane stuck back on and actually get it to stay there. Also, the old glue should be completely removed, and the shaft cleaned before trying to glue on a new vane.

On the other hand it is something that has to be talked about when you are discussing children and hunting and those who are self-professed mentors. It can't be ignored. Perhaps its time to do something about those teachers (mentors, parents or otherwise) who aren't fit to fill that role and maybe require some remedial training themselves before they lay some of that ignorance on their kids. I think there might be some solutions that address that problem. I don't know, I just am saying that I have observed more than a few situations that indicate that parents or other licensed individuals are not always all that competent in schooling kids in the right attitudes involving safety, ethics, and other things that have to be impressed on child- hunters. Perhaps when we are so focused on age, maybe we are missing the real point.

I used to use walnut hulls for dying. It gave them a black color that stayed with them for a long time. I always loved the trap preparations activity. It's all part of it. Traps have the oils to prevent rusting prior to sales. It's a cheap rust deterrent. And as Predate said the waxing is a scent elimination deal. So having them waxed and sitting around in a store with stinky people touching and all around them would be a wasted process.

There is one way that the aging process can be halted, but the results are really all that great .... lol.

Great idea for a new bowhunter. I hope you make a good contact. Hunting with a knowledgeable partner is the best way to get up to speed. Good luck.

I'm having a hard time coming up with a firm opinion on this. I have run into so many goofy people while hunting, some of which I would assume could be parents. The guy who was cradling his gun in the crook of his arm with the muzzle pointed right at my kneecaps until I told him to point it somewhere else. Then there was another guy who thought it was cool to rest the muzzle of his gun on the top of his boot while he yakked away forever as I was trying to hunt. And then there was the flaming red-eyed drunk that could hardly stand up. These guys could easily have had kids somewhere that they would have been mentoring. I mean some people shouldn't even have kids, let alone having them supervising kids with guns. We have no choice about them having kids, but there are some choices that can be exercised regarding when we can turn them loose telling and showing their kids all the wrong ways of safety. But then there was the guy that I ran into that had his kid (assumedly at a legal age for handling guns) out on state land with targets set up at the edge of a nice flat, un-backstopped brushy area. This was during bow season with leaves on, and him with no idea whether there was someone on stand back in there or not. This was a nice safety lesson that he was teaching his kid. So really, what is the proper age to be showing kids the wrong way to do things? So like I said, settling on any proper age really winds up to be crap-shoot. I certainly can't say based on what I have seen out there. It really seems to wind up being more about the quality of the parents than anything about the kids. Ha-ha ..... maybe there should be a hunter safety re-training course required at which time the parent would at least have been re-exposed and re-certified as to the right way to be mentoring their children.

I am curious, do deer processors have to have any qualifications or licenses? Or do they simply hang out their shingle and call themselves deer butchers? I went through a bunch of them before I finally settled in on one that I trust and that has reliable quality. I had one guy where I loaded my deer back in the truck when I got a whiff of his butchering table. My gosh actually the whole place stunk like rotten meat and the brown greasy gunk that was pasted into the corners of his meat table just about turned my stomach. I'm thinking that in early bow season, I would have to break out the butcher knives and once again do the job myself ..... immediately. Even those processors with walk-in coolers sometimes get over-loaded and have to leave the carcasses laying out in the sun for a while until they catch up. There are temperatures in early October that you just can't let the deer absorb anymore of that heat beyond what it may already have encountered in the field. And when it comes to aging your venison, at that time of year, you better have a dedicated walk-in cooler or refrigerator for that. And I really don't know any processors that can devote that space to simply aging meat. The ones that I have encountered operate on a quick in and quick out philosophy. That's how they make their money.

I apologize. I know I said I would make your day by giving you the last word, but I just can't pass this little gem that you handed me. You could have at least read your own quote that my reply was addressing instead of making a fool of yourself by calling attention to that one. Lol.... bloviate that And this time I will really try to let you have the last word .....ha-ha-ha.

I can accept the fact that most people with tons of experience and very refined tastes, can probably tell the added quality when meat is aged. But I do have to wonder if the average person can really tell the difference. In fact the only venison that I have complained about was a venison dinner of incorrectly "aged" meat. Man was that stuff rank. Apparently the process was incorrectly applied, or over-applied. I think that most hunters do not have the proper facilities that the pros have that have the closely regulated temperatures and whatever else the process demands. As I understand it, it is a pretty precise process among professional slaughter houses. Most of us do not own a walk-in cooler, and rapid processing during warmer seasons is probably going to produce venison that is absolutely acceptable.

LOL .... God that is lame .... Ha-ha-ha. Look, I'll tell you what, Bunky. Seeing as to how your discussion skills have once again screwed yet another thread, and dissolved into childish insults, give me yet another one of your feeble shots and then you can say you had the last word that you so desperately need. I think everyone has heard just about enough of this, and it's pretty obvious that you are running out of quality insults. So take your best shot and then give everybody a break.

Well, I'm not sure that this thread answered any earth-shattering questions for anyone, but at least it was a good airing of all the fears and attitudes that people have about civilian involvement in law enforcement. I have to say that I do understand pieces of every argument. Personally I have an attitude that relies on motives or intents and the possibilities that violations may or may not be repeated that determine whether I will blow the whistle. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, so says the government. But if I am convinced that the violator really didn't have a clue about the law or the interpretation of it, I likely will let a first offence slide without reporting it. I have seen enough instances of mass confusion on this forum regarding the laws, that I can certainly be sympathetic in that area. On the other hand, I don't want to hear bragging about law breaking or any signal that violations are intentional. That will get me involved damn quick regardless of the consequences. There is also an element of severity that enters into my decision to report or not report. Some things are not worth the hassle for me, the DEC, or the violator to even bother with. It's a judgment call. Is that all the exact correct way to deal with reporting violations? .... I don't know, but it is my way.

They are just like any government agency. Sometimes they get it right, and sometimes they don't. And I am always right there to have an opinion on which is which, case by case.

It really is not worth the effort. I think my assessment of your discussion techniques is pretty much on the mark, and you know it too.

Believe me, I am not an apologist for the DEC. I have been a very harsh critic of theirs. But I also do understand that their job is not as simple as drawing up a list of laws and regulations from other states that sound real neat and making that our game management plan. And yes, I will give them credit when they do not engage in some of the silly logic that I sometimes hear on this forum. And yes, I can whack them on top of the head when they do something that defies all understanding. And when it turns out that they have not fallen to faulty reasoning, they have to get credit for that too. No, unlike you, I have not declared total war on the DEC. They are not my enemy in any way that I can prove.....yet. And yes, I will always be free with my opinions, both positive and negative, and there is no circular logic in that or any speaking out of both sides of the mouth, simply an honest assessment as I see it. Of course you know that but apparently you had to have something negative to put in your reply. I'm sorry you feel that way because it does make civil discourse and constructive conversation just about impossible.

And there you are whining about how something is worded rather than adding anything useful to the discussion. In fact that's all you ever do is whine about how someone is expressing themselves. Never do you have any constructive additions to the discussion. And yes my comment in that last reply is absolutely appropriate. If there is so much commonality across the country, then why is each state struggling to come up with their own unique versions and nuances to their deer management. While you are whimpering about how something is worded, you are running away from the truth of the statement. If things are so common from one state to another, a pooled federal activity absolutely could be set up nationwide to define "best practices" in deer management. But then everyone except a couple of people on this forum understand that. But the point has been well made and even each of every different state understands that they have their own peculiarities and needs and they all have to design their own management to handle the uniqueness of their own circumstances. I don't even see how anyone can argue that. I have outlined a few of the more glaring unique features of NYS which are so obvious that it surprises me that I have to list them. And if you guys were not so busy trying to prove me wrong, you would have to have the honesty to admit the obvious. Regional problems require regional solutions. Yeah that's right. One size does not fit all. Not here within the state and certainly not across the country. Things from other states can and should be looked at and I'm sure already have. But it is just patently ignorant to say, "Well gee it works there so it has to work here". While the DEC has many known flaws that they should work on, thank heavens their logic is not that screwed-up as to apply that kind of reasoning.

Each new rifle purchase begins a search for an optimal load. Once the component selection is made and bullet production specs are developed, that is my "locked-in" formula for bullet building forever on that rifle. However, like someone above mentioned each gun that I buy also involves a box or two of factory ammo just to give me time to buy components and also give me some instant gratification of shooting my new gun right out of the box.

Well, perhaps if there is no state uniqueness, we should have a federal deer management oversight agency that sets the rules for the DEC to administer. Apparently it is being assumed that there is one set of management principles that apply from coast to coast. Frankly, I don't buy it. I cannot think of a single state that has the diversity that NYS has all in one state. Right off the bat, that is what caused us to establish a Northern Zone and a Southern zone with some pretty basic and necessary differences in people and deer density, and habitat and climate and hunting pressure. And yes, we do have huge climate differences from one corner of the state to the other. And then there are the Catskills that have their own little management nuances. We can't even get commonality within our state boundaries, let alone apply "what works" from other states. I suspect that the DEC wishes that it were as simple as cherry picking from other states. Yes we are unique. And I for one will not presume to think that the idea to look to other states for management theories, research and actions has never been thought of by the DEC.

I think what they are saying is that hunters in that area are not shooting an adequate number of does to keep the population from continuing to explode. Regardless of where the hunters of that area stand in the percentages, they still are not keeping pace with the available does. There is something unique about that region that is causing an out-of-control deer population, they say. Each year they have doe tags left over that no one is interested in picking up. So flooding the area with more permits is simply not hacking it anymore. So the question still has to be asked (and not ignored or buried in BS), why this one relatively small area of NYS has this unique problem. And I am simply asking that question. And no the solution is not to run off and randomly try this idea or that idea from some randomly selected state. This unique regional problem will require a unique targeted regional solution. And my thought is that when that question that I am asking is answered, there may very well be some major breakthroughs in deer management that may reach beyond the boundaries of these few WMUs.

It is true that just about any plan you can devise can be cheated. That is why it is important to get serious (not contrived) hunter buy-in. And yes, you will still get the cheaters. And you will have to work to foil as many of those cheaters as possible just like they have to do with any conservation law in existence. But if you can get the majority of hunters in synch with what you are trying to do, the cheating problem gets a little less. Not only do you get more conformance, but you get more willing eyes out there to aid in bringing down cheaters. However, I do agree that a lot of ideas sound great until you start to examine the details. Those "details" are good to bring up and talk about.

Care to address the discussion rather than simply worrying about how I express myself. I mean that whining in the face of not having anything real to say is getting pretty darn old. My gosh, at least I have opinions and don't have to harp about a few words that seem to sting in your craw. I mean really, if you have something real to add lets hear it, but you people who rave about all these ideas with the zeal of an insurance salesman (sorry insurance salesmen) really shouldn't whine so much when somebody paraphrases your enthusiasm with a few accurate descriptive alternative terms. As to your last paragraph, I'm sorry that I have opinions, and I'm sorry that they rankle you so, but this is a forum where opinions are expressed. Get used to it.