growalot

Here's the problem I have with that train of thought, Though you say you believe there are better ways.... you support a state wide LEGISLATION. The DEC was addressing this and JUST started the " let them walk" program. Now I'm sorry, some may think just one season..ONE season wasn't enough to make a difference for them. Do not expect others to think MANDATORY LEGISLATION is the answer either. Now I have to say to your train of thought. There comes a time when any people stating that for the HEALTH of any animal population, legislation is the answer to try to superseded Mother Natures, natural ebb and flow, are stating a fallacy. Yes you can legislate human interactions with wild life...but never what Mother nature will do on her own.It is purely a flawed argument. Keeping humans from shooting specific deer in specific areas to "better" the herd has more than once been shown as a failure...Don't believe me, ask some of the other guys on this forum that have lived through the DEC doe management "issues" , when mother nature came in on their tails and took out what ever she wanted. There are still units trying to recover from that. I am not going to assume % or numbers in your unit nor any other units I'm not familiar with. I will though say guys in there little suits sitting behind their big desks in Albany have no business doing so either.

OMG... where did you see I said you specifically were a liar... Let me try this again....

Here is a quote from a DEC officer..." You have to wonder ,Why bother when you go to these small town justices and everyone is related to everyone. Then your made to look like an ass for doing your job by the time you leave the court"

When you say up your way ...is that Jefferson county? So you feel the entire state needs to have AR's for herd health based on possible weather conditions for the health of the herd(winter kill). This based on what you see in one of the worst snow belts in the state the Tug Hill Plateau? Now to avoid any discomfort let me state.THIS IS A SERIOUS QUESTION not being sarcastic or condescending..just trying to understand the logic.

Let me address this...I am most certainly sarcastic..I believe I have openly mentioned this. That said my sarcasm hits full bloom when I see people posting about how they think their hunting experience needs to include EVERYONE else in the state and then hide behind "It's not about me it's about the health of the deer". They expect everyone to fall inline and believe every single "Science " based argument they present. This while completely ignoring or offhandedly dismissing anything any one else posts to the contrary.Such as links from other biologist and yes other states that have shown ...IT DOESN'T work and wasn't needed. I get sarcastic when people just can not have an agenda and be totally honest about what is driving that agenda. Now I can not nor will I take responsibility for how you or any one else feels reading words on a computer screen. You can't even see my facial expressions nor body language. I will not believe my words have so much power that you have to feel dissed. This all said Of course I laughed! Did you read what you wrote? ..hhhmmm Let me just use a familiar phrase..." Calling the Kettle black" Though I have to try and think back to how many personal, petty "attacks" any members have seen me make in this thread.

Ladder I find them less dangerous also less likely to grow into the tree if left out...I have lost a couple of store bought hang on's. If not talking store bought...I prefer my wooden hang on's they are safer bigger and better made. I have two climbers I rarely use now...I have seen too many fully leafed healthy looking maple trees with the tops blown out of them. Have had 3 near hits from tops letting loose on non windy days as I was walking past. Too many large up rooted trees on the ground...Yes it could happen in either of the other stands...but I'm not out there trying to find and climb those in the dark...and I can chose a different type of tree to use.. big branches and much bigger trees...not limbless straight smaller ones(relatively) as in a climber...JMO

They don't seem to have one...Though growing up in North Dansville as a kid...I seem to recall "sin city" being bantered around by my older siblings. Not quite sure if it was Dansville or Wayland they were referring to. I suppose if it is to be the "home of " Dansville was home of the Mustangs and where I finished school was York the home of the Golden Knights.

The younger the branch the less bitter,more tender palatable the bark. If I were to choose to chew on a maple branch to taste the sweet sap in spring, I would choose a young tender branch for a sweet treat... Funny how analogies are ...anyone can MAKE ONE up. PS.. didn't think I really needed to finish the comparison there..though......

Well since Mr B bought mine, he purchased 3 more for work,camp,and our Son...He uses mine more than I do to take the edge off of his work trailer and to warm camp before the wood stove gets to a full burn. He just got these bags off of Amazon for 22.00+ change... Here are links just to show you what they look like. Ours are the black ones ...anyways they are really well made and hold 2 extra tanks... http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/raider-big-buddy-heater-storage-bag-bcs-26-ca https://forwardpowersports.com/index.php/more/heater-storage-bags/portable-heater-storage-bag-by-raider-bcs-27.html

Nice...We still have sow though..ladies won't be sitting on any thing for at least a couple of weeks

Nearly every pine and spruce I have ever lost on this place was due to rubbing...My young maples, oaks,fruit trees and chestnuts..taken out by buck. Now with the numbers of ( and you can look this up) fruit, nut and berry orchards around, plus nut tree and pine plantations in western central NYS. Your saved bucks will have Kill orders put out on them in greater numbers by the DEC...They will issue damage permits and I guarantee these farms will apply for them more then ever. You can barely spit without hitting someone in a fruit or Christmas tree operation in these areas. Showing buck damage is the easiest damage to prove. Seeing I'm in to plants I can tell you the association of nut tree growers is growing rapidly. I can't imagine any of the logging operations that own lands wont look for relief and more than from the hunters they lease to. I could name 4 Christmas tree farms around me that get extra buck damage permits that they give out to archers in Oct.-November...it's big business here.

chicken tacos...

Peppermints?

Winter storm advisory...not bad but a layer of ice and freezing rain overnight and in the morning...drive careful out there tomorrow.

Even with the snows we had, they were all over our woods ...feeding up close to the tree trunks where the snow wasn't as deep....It should be a good year...The new blind arrived today..Still not impressed with windows, so I will be buying some sticky round magnets to get the configuration I want... Other wise nice, though the door's real tight. From skirt edge to skirt edge 58 inches...it will go on a 5x8 foot raised platform when not at camp...

LOL you correct in your image DFA...not in your assumptions...It had nothing to do with me or any of my knowledge nor skills or lack there of. Not trying to impress anyone, l Lord... by now most have to know I just don't give a tinkers about what others think of me......It had everything to getting across a few points.. what points people saw in this, or how it made them think when seeing others vision in the picture, I had no control over...It stopped just few a little bit...the none stop tail chasing ..if that put a target on me ...hahaha who cares it was a relief..I know I don't have to read nor participate but, human nature and those train wrecks what can I say I stated in the beginning this really won't have an effect on me...Though that isn't true. See if the doe continue to do their night time thing, I won't take an easy 6 anymore I won't be able to...I will hit the fawns...it will take more than one fawn to make up for the size, but I have 6 tags...I won't care if they have bumps or not for meat is meat and it's just more tender meat....That's just a personal choice..... the DEC want those tags filled and I haven't been able to do my part over the last few years because fawns where off the table...not so much when this goes through. I will say this ....I hope it made people think about what it should take to actually age a deer on the hoof...without a rack present....from a distorted view point( those two deer and their respective distance from the camera)...even sex..here are a couple worth while links http://www.outdooralabama.com/sites/default/files/hunting/hunterresources/tips/Alabama Poster.pdf http://extension.missouri.edu/p/G9485

I interesting thoughts. You got the point Chas. Every tail chasing dog needs a distraction after 22 rounds of pointlessness.....

AH...but see you haven't knowledge of any pics before or after. Also remember some fawns that also get bred as well, will come in heat Iater.

No of I think you missed something in my last post Chas some good reasoning,though remember to question time of breeding and number of fetuses if this is the case for showing.....Now seeing the second deer is obviously a button buck...How do you account for the amount of hock staining on a doe you think to be a fawn? This isn't sarcasm ..a straight non judgemental question. Here's another interesting fact..Illinois requires not only points,but beam base measurements and the measurement from eye duct to back leading edge of nostril. To help determine age estimates.

Not now a days it doesn't...I feel lucky I'm still getting deliveries at this point..

Nice! OMG...what will be the next DEC scheme?..Thank God they are doing well, I was about to start worrying for the influx poor Region 8M might get should AR' s go through..they're finally getting their doe #'s up.. guys going there for both what ever bucks and getting doe tags too...lol Me,maybe I'll get lucky and there will be so many they have to leave sanctuary during hunting hours..I never did get enough to send to Wilson's. I'm missing my snack sticks

Lol...Mr B will be at camp and I believe our daughter and significant will be n Rivers blind,I'll be in the swamp,or the knew bull blind Short tower Remember no guarantees here...especially the last few years....those deer left the sanctuary at Sun down...we have people obviously feeding and domesticated below us...I haven't seen a racked buck in months...the bee hive guy has had 3 walking through his 1 acre every few days ...All huge racked...Obviously deer I havent seen just A 1/4 mile from my farthest property line above him and1/2 mile down the road parallel to him.

Over the last few years we've seen a significant increase in buck and buck fawn...I wonder what the fawn drop will look like this year...In the last couple of years the fawn drop has gone down to one and twins,where as,and I've mentioned it in the past, we have seen large numbers of triplets. So things have changed,not sure it is predator related or not.

That's right and Manic questioned it and I answered. I said from the get go to give reasons for your answers. Why do you think I did that ?. Why do you think I picked that particular picture? I'll tell you. 1. Close enough to the cam to show what looks like a difference in size between 2 deer 2. Pretty dark stained hocks. Buck or doe ...doe in heat will have staining so ?... 3 . Belly fur long"guard" hairs a bit forwards...blow the pic up, older doe udder area,fawn fatty, or penis? See it could pose a question 4 . Head turned just enough to question size and smooth or not..BTW buttonbucks never loose those "buttons" they just continue developing into their first rack the following season. You can see the deer in the back grounds right side button. Also here early drops which most did,will cover over in fur,especially on a first time small mass deer. Though buck and older doe show a particular forehead distinction and fur coloration. 5. All the deer here are fat and have sway bellies,even this time of year. I believe most of my past pics have shown that. 6. Then yes body definitions...length to height(clearly snow wasn't too deep 2") Neck length and line to chest . Back line...Oh,even how the tail hangs,most buck even in a relaxed state tend to tuck their tails to their genitals..doe usuallyhave a more relaxed tail oh and leggy or not. So that picture has a few things in it that one would or could question. Though I really wanted to see how many talking with such conviction on age structure and herd heath would be as vocal in their knowledge when asked to age a healthy deer of unknown age and questionable sex. Take a rack away and have a few questionable things how much real knowledge is out there.... One person stepped up without getting defensive,and gave honest opinion to what he saw..instead of trying to turn it into whether I knew it to be a buck or doe..one picture out of dozens in a series I posted and only a few responded...Moog yes you did give an answer but more concerned with my reasoning That should have been clear I did clearly say let's play a game. I got what I expected actually. Most avoided a couple questioned but answered and others turned it into a personal thing...pretty much standard..No one simply just answered with reasons as asked.

For a warm weather picture...that's not the healthiest looking deer.