phade

SST are accurate in my ML but there's just no expansion. I rolled a doe yesterday and it pretty much knocked it down fast, the bullet pretty much went in and out through the chest and exited behind the opposite shoulder. Just no sign of expansion. Too hard of a bullet and I'm pretty much still shooting them because they are cheap, I have another box, and accurate. Will likely drop them with the next ML I buy.

This. Those knives did a great job. Can't beat it.

This guy would have scored pretty well for a 6 if he hadn't broken his g2 off. Still a solid buck. Everyone seems to like the prototypical 8s but a big 6 is pretty darn cool.

Me left moog5050 right.

Any hunter can make an irresponsible shot. The weapon doesn't matter. That said, I wouldn't want the thread poster in my woods. He's a risk.

I completely agree. I guess my thought process is that it would wash out...a deer usually walks by hunter 1 but not hunter 2, then food plot draws, and deer goes by hunter 2 and not hunter 1. In either case, a hunter still sees one deer.

Valid points on the dogs and book buck states, too. NY is just full of people with anecdotal stories about other people (never the ones telling the story, of course) doing completely dangerous things. Tail wagging the dog on this one, letting fearmongering limit opportunity. The sky is falling thought process inhibits our ability to move forward.

Never called you a liar. You implied a story to try to back up your position with more anecdotal evidence. All you still have is anecdote.

Funny, but as much as Doc and I don't see eye to eye, he does have value and offer good insight from time to time. I bet Doc wouldn't say that about me though.

It wasn't me, I'm not wrong, I'm never wrong, you are the fool, etc. Just more of the same rhetoric from you Doc. Wasn't using Gotcha tactics for the sake of getting you and that should be clear...showing that implied stories don't support or overrule the fact hard data shows the 1/2hr rule isn't a safety issue. All you have are stories. States that have the 1/2 hr rule...not comprehensive list, but just a few I know of. NJ, IA, MN, ME, MD, VA, KS, OH. Just that list alone shows a wide range of hunting state characteristics...high dpsm, high hunter density, high hunter numbers, low hunter density, numbers, deer, etc. That's just scratching teh surface. I think there may be MORE that offer this than don't. If safety were even a sniffle of a risk with this rule, states wouldn't be doing this.

For all of the brainiac and smart posts you make, I don't recall you ever owning up to being wrong in any conversation/debate we have ever had. That belies a characteristc tragically flawed. I have zero problem stating I was wrong and I own those situations (I'm not casting stones in a glass house) - but this one still holds truth in my view. You knew clearly I was talking about tree stands. I believe you made a story that tries to back up your position with anecdotal evidence. In the end, that's all you have, stories either your own or implied stories. Safety records haven't been dramatically impacted by the 1/2 hr change. Thus, your preference to not change the law is based on what? You seeing the sky falling, when the data shows it doesn't? Again, just more evidence to show that you can't choke down some humility. It's not hard to see what I was getting at. You said something earlier in this thread that I thought was interesting "It's a law...just follow it." I think I understand the frustration coming out when making a statement like that because there is no data showing that the 1/2 hr difference creates a safety issue. But I'm surprised that you made a statement like that. Can you honestly say you have followed every law/regulation/code, etc.? Intentional or not. I'm not so sure many people can say they have. I really do question that. Laws are common threads that bind and hold one accountable. Ethical and moral quandries have presented themselves to me before. Two years ago, I had to shoot not one, but two doe in front of my house wihtin a week-span because they got hit by a car. Both stopped and I came out and dispatched them with my .22 and bow. I have zero problem admitting that. Was it the law? Nope. I broke it. Why? One car was a van full of kids and the doe was flopping around in front of the car and they were all crying and it was pretty clearly traumatic. I dispatched the deer with my bow after moving it out of sight of the kids. The mother thanked me and the father later called me and thanked me, too. I wasn't waiting for the cops to come, and they did. They also thanked me. The other was hit by a Corrections Officer. He actually asked me if I could dispatch it. Again, the sheriff filed a report (he hammered that doe bad and it was stuck under his truck alive and had big damage to he week old truck). and thanked me. I broke the law 2x, maybe more. Neither time did the auithorities cite me and rather thanked me. Following the law on that one went against my moral and ethical compass. If you say I did the wrong thing personally, I just don't see much value in your opinion. So, no just because it is a law, I don't blindly follow it. I don't think many in this world can say they do.

You are talking in circles. You just said I thought wrong. Stop talking out of both sides of your mouth there doc. If you were talking about ground stands you would have stated such after I questioned you on it and you KNEW what i was talking about. My question never included the word tree. I said...stand. you said i thought wrong. That proves you knew what i was talking about. Youre just backpedaling now. You pretty clearly tried to make a story that defended your position because it supported your belief.I usually think whether I disagree with you, you bring up points that are valid for positions I may not agree with. But this is clearly a case where you can't say changing the law would result in a safety decrease. Enough states do this that one can reasonably be assured that it is an effective law that does not impact safety. All you have to go on is anecdotal stories. These states are laws. Laws. If there were a safety issue with it, they'd change quickly. They havent been and won't be. Face it NY is on the wrong side of this law and it should be changed.

Pretty sure you've stated several times in the past few months you've been out of the trees and evolved into a ground hunter. Multiple times. Heck you even say you dont do them anymore...so no I didnt think wrong. Your words. Not mine.Kind of hard to take your statements seriously on this subject with these quotes. If you've somehow started hunting via a stand after decades of ground hunting, the least you could have stated in your response was such instead of saying I thought wrong. Pretty sure you are aware you have remarked you are a ground pounder. Just goes to show you aren't telling the real deal when trying to make a point you have a firm stance on. Using the story of leaving your stand to prove a point when you dont hunt from one, or at least say you dont repeatedly.

How do you get out of your stand. Pretty sure you have stated you dont hunt from stands and haven't for a long while. Seems a little fishy there boss.

I hope the law is changed to reflect the best practices. I can't recall any data showing that NY is more safe because of the current law as compared to states with the 1/2 rule on either side. I also don't have anything in my pocket to prove vice versa....but the fact that many states allow the 1/2hr grace period tells me that this is just an archaic law and we're on the wrong side of it.

I hear this alot in my area but it is a joke. We're in heavy ag. Worrying about a 1 or 2 acre plot is for naught. (not alot of people dedicate larger destination plots around here to deer - because most let the farmer lease it and still help the deer out). Other areas of the state where ag is missing, maybe a minor factor, but studies show food plots are merely a blip on the radar for a deer's diet. I forget the exact % (its miniscule) but the data shows that most people overplay the amount of food deer consume via food plots.

Many states have the 1/2 hour before/after rule. It seems like this is just another case of NY failing to fall in line with best practices and the law is what it is because there is no traction to change it. I compare it to the rifle vs. shotgun. Ten years ago, rifle talk in new rifle counties was cut off at the knees. Now with more support (probably based off of the gun control issue) it gained traction. That's just an observation, but seems pretty clear that the law could be changed with negligible effect on safety based on the fact that many states have the 30 min grace period.

I think that is a myth. People think poachers are always financially deprived or down in the socio-economic class; that's based on informal observation. Plenty of average and above average people make poor decisions everyday. I won't explain how I know other than to say I work for a giant company that has insight and data to this. You are letting the tail wag this dog with this thought process. Government garnishments follow people around.

Look up some of the bigger bucks poached in states like Ohio or IL, or Iowa, or Kansas. Shoot a whopper...enjoy that $30,000 fine....$30,000......kind of hard to not pay the government. Garnish wages, eat up tax returns. It hits the wallet hard and gets press.

A 1/3 or more of the herd needs to be turned over each year to break even on growth. I don't think AZ has that kind of rate because it is not necessary.

Would love to see OBR or if a two tag system, similar to IL in that you can kill your two bucks and you are done (minus antlerless). Don't need to spread the wealth over bow/gun/late. If that was the case, I'd probably not hunt deer with gun any longer.

Are you making an assumption that because they don't document their issue in pics on huntingny.com that they are not taking pics or not addressing the situation in some capacity? I still see no bearing or good that can come from this thread.

This is nothing but pot stirring, I agree. What is the need for posting pics of stands? Why does the person need to post pics on a freaking hunting forum? People who have trespassing and poaching issues don't need any additional problems, least of which is getting chastized for not posting evidence of it online.

Ever shrinking parcel sizes are one cause for that. People get less desire to push or drive as the acreage decreases and land access also shrinks.

Each gun is unique in the ammo it likes, but generally speaking, if you like the Hornady's, you'll love the Remington Accutips. I researched long and hard for a dedicated slug gun for deer. Mass produced options for accuracy generally come down to the Savage 220 or the H&R Ultra Slug with the bull barrel. I have the ultra slug with the thumbhole and bull barrel. Tack driver and I really enjoy shooting it. The Accutips are generally regarded as being a match made in heaven for the ultra slug. It's by far the most popular selection; hornady gets pretty mixed results. Don't hear of too many people say they prefer the hornady over the accutips once they try both.