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Study: Whitetail Deer in Central New York - An alternative to Antler restriction

burmjohn

By burmjohn,
in Deer Hunting

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Doc Proficient

Doc

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I think even just one year of doe only hunting would make a huge difference.

Lol..... yeah, and I think the DEC would have to start giving away licenses just to keep hunters afield. And all for what value?? Some temporary "feel-good" meaningless gimmick that would have to be repeated every other year or so? And then only to have theoretical half-understood results on the herd. Thank heavens these kinds of decisions are left up to the more level heads within the state agency charged with the management of wildlife instead of the average "armchair biologist". I don't feel real good about defending the DEC until I start listening to some of the ideas that come from outside that department.....lol. That always kind of puts their actual value in true perspective.

Doc

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Isles323 Newbie

Isles323

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I'm saying we would see improvements after just one year. Another two on top of that seems to look great on paper, but on the other hand so does communism. I think they should start out slow and readjust the restrictions accordingly for each section every year. Do you think it would be to costly, in regards to manpower and time?

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nyantler Apprentice

nyantler

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Hate to tell you Doc but all the ideas I have put up on this forum have come directly from those DEC specialists you refer to.. the only reason a lot have not already been implememented is because of the same type of resistance from guys like you... I have been doing research on deer management for the last 16 years and have spoken to nearly all the biologist that are also working on coming up with a better mangement plan. Frankly, I'm glad that you want to leave it up to the guys who know a little more.. because from what I've heard from you so far.. you really don't know alot about what you're talking about. I'm sure your an okay guy and all and really enjoy your hunting but you're the type of guy that needs to be educated a little.

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wztirem Newbie

wztirem

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Hate to tell you Doc but all the ideas I have put up on this forum have come directly from those DEC specialists you refer to.. the only reason a lot have not already been implememented is because of the same type of resistance from guys like you... I have been doing research on deer management for the last 16 years and have spoken to nearly all the biologist that are also working on coming up with a better mangement plan. Frankly, I'm glad that you want to leave it up to the guys who know a little more.. because from what I've heard from you so far.. you really don't know alot about what you're talking about. I'm sure your an okay guy and all and really enjoy your hunting but you're the type of guy that needs to be educated a little.

So much for your credibility!

  "Haha .. I'd have no problem saying anything to you in person brush... it IS quite the same for me face to face as well... fortunately for me you don't travel in my circle... I love a good debate and I can tell that a lot of the guys on here have a good knowledge of whitetail deer even though or opinions may be different.. you on the other hand have the least amount of whitetail deer knowledge of any hunter I have ever met... you are merely dillusional. Sorry guys.. I'm not much usually for insults but this guy is a dope."    16 Years of research, my word! Are you published? Has your scholarly endeavors been critiqued by your peers?    As far as a good debate, perhaps you read Roberts Rules of Order concerning debate!    By the way Brainiac learn how to spell!   

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nyantler Apprentice

nyantler

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Pay attention larry.. I said that I am not advocating a doe only season, just put up the question to see what kind of responses I'd get about using it for helping buck age class structure... I am actually a one mature buck only advocate if anything with a doe harvest. It would do many NY hunters some good to read up on management programs in other states and see what they have done to help their herds... better yet read up on why the issue of quality deer management even exists... quality deer management is not just about deer populations and big bucks... read the whole model... you might just lean something.

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Doc Proficient

Doc

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Are you guys getting topics mixed up here? This one wasnt about doe only hunting.

Yes, the topic is wandering a bit as it often will after 11 pages. However, my response was simply a response to the specific message I quoted.

Doc

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Doc Proficient

Doc

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Hate to tell you Doc but all the ideas I have put up on this forum have come directly from those DEC specialists you refer to.. the only reason a lot have not already been implememented is because of the same type of resistance from guys like you... I have been doing research on deer management for the last 16 years and have spoken to nearly all the biologist that are also working on coming up with a better mangement plan. Frankly, I'm glad that you want to leave it up to the guys who know a little more.. because from what I've heard from you so far.. you really don't know alot about what you're talking about. I'm sure your an okay guy and all and really enjoy your hunting but you're the type of guy that needs to be educated a little.

Sorry, I didn't realize that we were in the presence of such a noted authority on whitetail management ..... lol. However, like wztirem, I would like to see a few relevant, verifiable, credentials, if you are going to pull the "expert" card out. I'm a little picky on just who I am taking my education from.

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nyantler Apprentice

nyantler

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Don't claim to be an expert but I do know a bit about what I'm talking about... been involved in this stuff long before anybody heard of QDM in NY. Actually participate and published an article on The Weller Mountain QDM program initiated by Grant Woods back in the mid 90's. I did many QDM seminars all over the state back then as well.

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Doc Proficient

Doc

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Don't claim to be an expert but I do know a bit about what I'm talking about... been involved in this stuff long before anybody heard of QDM in NY. Actually participate and published an article on The Weller Mountain QDM program initiated by Grant Woods back in the mid 90's. I did many QDM seminars all over the state back then as well.

I hoped that maybe you might actually have some kind of real biology and wildlife management education or something that is actually recognized as some sort of real credentials that make your opinions worth anything more than any other armchair game manager.

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Larry Community Regular

Larry

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Hey Doc this guy is the type person that will with very little knowledge tries to come off as an expert. It is obvious he has never taken a basic biology class or he missed the part where females have babies of both sexes; and in this case he thinks the more doe’s you kill the more bucks you will have. You and I both know you have to kill doe’s to control the overall population, over killing of doe’s would be detrimental to both bucks and doe’s. I think he doesn’t understand the difference between doe’s and antlerless that up to 2/3’s of the antlerless population is fawns.

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nyantler Apprentice

nyantler

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Who ever said anything about the more does you kill the more bucks you'll have?  you two really don't pay attention... I never said anything about killing more does... just killing less small bucks... and if you also payed attention you'd have read how to avoid killing fawns when filling doe tags... I have killed many does over the years and have never killed a button buck or a fawn. Last i knew antlerless was a deer without antlers... we aren't talking about balancing antlerless with antlered we're talking about balancing male and female.

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TheHunter Newbie

TheHunter

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Larry, your the last freaking one that should be talking about others taking classes.  Your the guy that tried to spin numbers by calculating percentages backwards LOL!  Lets go back there - >http://huntingny.com/forums/index.php/topic,108.735.html

And I quote you

"i think your numbers for 3j is +11% 3h +30% sorry i'm a numbers guy"

LMAO!!!! 

And you continue to copy and paste BS that others write or you copy and paste from other sites.  99% of what NYAntler says is correct.  He is not stating to kill all the does, he is talking about population control and herd management.

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TheHunter Newbie

TheHunter

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Trust me, you don't need help...  These guys need help.  They say they practice QDM, they say they have these monster bucks running around their properties...  Which if its true, thats great...  Guess what? Its not true for the most of us.  They are so dead set against those that want some type of QDM / AR / Whatever you want to call it.    You call them brown its down, they cry  :'( ....  Oh the horror, I can't shoot a spike.    "You can't eat horns", yet they all hunt horns and claim have these monster P&Y's running all over..  ::)

Whats classic is, these guys don't hunt in area's with AR in place.  They talk from ZERO experience.  Ask the guys with AR in their area's and the bucks they have been seeing.    I wish there was a different way to implement AR, however points works for the masses.  Is it the best solution? Nope.  Does it work? Yup.

You want proof? Go to any processor or taxidermist in the AR zones.  Hands down things have changed. 

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