Interpretation of hunting hours

[Doc]

Apparently the environmental conservation law places a very wide definition on the term hunting, and I would assume that any law or regulation that applies to hunting (such as legal hunting hours), would be interpreted using this definition of "hunting"

The term "hunting" is defined in the Environmental Conservation Law of New York, volume 1, section 11-0103, item 10, (page 11-6) as:

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"Hunting" means pursuing, shooting, killing or capturing (other than trapping as defined in subdivision 11) wildlife, except wildlife which has been lawfully trapped or otherwise reduced to possession and includes all lesser acts such as disturbing,harrying or worrying, whether they result in taking or not, and every attempt to take, and every act of assistance to any other person in taking or attempting to take wildlife.

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That's quite a mouthful, but is out of the 1984-1985 book of Environmental Conservation Law of New York.

Most likely this definition of "hunting" has not been changed since this printing of the law. It's not the easiest thing to read, but as near as I can figure, the term hunting takes in a lot more than just killing an animal. Anyway, make of it what you will. This is just something that I found that relates to the discussion here.

So anyway, I would say that this is what the ECO's are required to to use in determining whether or not you are hunting outside of legal hours.

[bubba]

1...not everyone uses a wrist strap release

2. not everyone uses commercial calls

3. there are no set rules on how to hunt yotes...or raccoon as far as calling or use/not of dogs

4. there are more than I care to see of NYS hunters that don't know or perhaps understand NYS hunting regulations

Ok my last post. You are reading the regulation guide, which is very basic, I have the book of encon laws as I need it for my second profession. If you could actually read the law and not a GUIDE, you would understand you as well as the rest do not know the laws, you know the guidelines. There is a big difference. If you want to push the envelope, continue to do so. I guess I do not understand why you would not do something simple to show you have no intent, and not spend extra time explaining how you are "Coyote hunting" and risk a ticket, why would you not want to do so? Just don't hide behind the false sense of security the guide gives you. The law states all that has to be proven in intent, Best of luck. If you get a ticket don't complain and say the officer needs to catch real criminals.

[bubba]

Ok my last post. You are reading the regulation guide, which is very basic, I have the book of encon laws as I need it for my second profession. If you could actually read the law and not a GUIDE, you would understand you as well as the rest do not know the laws, you know the guidelines. There is a big difference. If you want to push the envelope, continue to do so. I guess I do not understand why you would not do something simple to show you have no intent, and not spend extra time explaining how you are "Coyote hunting" and risk a ticket, why would you not want to do so? Just don't hide behind the false sense of security the guide gives you. The law states all that has to be proven in intent, Best of luck. If you get a ticket don't complain and say the officer needs to catch real criminals. The real part of the op was interpretation of hunting hours. You have your interpretation I have the law and my job is to interpret it and fine you when you break it. Appeal me all you want.

[mxsmitz201]

Hunting Hours and Methods

• You may hunt furbearers after sunrise on the opening day of the season. They may be taken at any hour, day or night, for the rest of their hunting season until sunset on the closing day of the season. For more on hunting furbearers at night, see below.
  
• You may hunt furbearers during the day using any handgun, shotgun, rifle or bow. All laws pertaining to the use of firearms apply.
  
• You may use a rifle chambered in any cartridge, except that you may not possess a centerfire rifle afield, during the day or night, during any open season for deer in areas where rifles are prohibited for deer hunting.
  
• Air guns may be used to hunt furbearers. An air gun is defined as a firearm that uses spring or compressed air (not gunpowder) to propel a single projectile that is .17 caliber or larger and produces a muzzle velocity of at least 600 feet/second.
  
• You may use a call, including an electronic call.
  

Furbearer Hunting at Night

You may hunt furbearers at night, with or without a light, as follows:

• You may use a light, but you may not hunt from any motor vehicle, including an ATV. All laws pertaining to the use of a spotlight and firearm apply.
  
• If hunting without a light, the use of a light gathering ("starlight") scope is legal on any firearm listed below.
  
• You may use any handgun or bow.
  
• You may use a shotgun loaded with shot (any size).
  
• You may use a rifle chambered in any cartridge, except that you may not possess a centerfire rifle afield, during the day or night, during any open season for deer in areas where rifles are prohibited for deer hunting.
  

NOTE: In Westchester, Nassau, and Suffolk counties rifles are not allowed. In all other localities, be sure to check with local officials about laws restricting the discharge of a firearm at night.

im hunting 3 things right now whenever i walk into the woods. deer, turkey, and coyotes. if an eco wants to tell me i had intent to kill....hes damn right i had intent to kill, thanks for stating the obvious. i had intent to kill 1 of each during their respective hunting hours. i dont need a turkey call or a coyote call or a deer call, ive killed 2 coyotes last year out of the same stand with a bow. i have a flock of 18 turkeys that walk single file infront of my stand 3-4 times a week, i try every time to pluck one off with my bow but its damn hard even in a treestand to draw on one with 18 pairs of eyes looking around.

so yea, i have every intention of harvesting a coyote from the moment i walk in, to the moment i reach my truck, and harvesting a deer and/or turkey from legal sunrise/sunset. like someone else stated, you just need to know your rights and the laws when confronted by a DEC officer, because it appears the DEC is just like any other policing organization and hopes you dont know the laws so they can get away with writing BS tickets.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I can say the same thing WNY. Im am not wrong. First off saying you are deer hunting after dark only if you shoot a deer is foolish, how any times do you just go sit in a tree stand and arent realy hunting because you didnt shoot a deer lol. Second I think I will stand by my statements as told to me by the men and women who enforce game laws and not a bunch ot people trying to dabble in the GREY areas on a keyboard. I can certainly admit when Im proved wrong and appologize but none of you have made a statement that over rides what DEC otricers have said when I was checked for on this very same topic.

Well, you can think what you like, but how do you explain the lack of people being ticketed for intent to shoot deer out of season, at night or during the day while they are predator hunting after deer season is open? You know that many times, predator tactics are just like deer tactics. You are not always calling, you are not always hunting with lights, you are in areas where deer frequent.

Its easy to see what the laws are, they are in black and white. Like I said before, if ENCON wants to try and interpret, and they are wrong, Ill be more than happy to take them to task on it.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Bubba, if there are laws against having a loaded weapon or having your bow disabled after sunset or before sunrise, please look it up in your book and post the reference numbers, they can all be looked up online.

[Lawdwaz]

By disabled, it needs to be unstrung if a recurve or a locking device so the bow can not be pulled back if a compound. A simple remedy is a padlock around the stings. Regardless of the time if you do not do these things after sunset,the intent is there to be hunting, and you can be ticketed.

So, I can't string my bow or take the "cable lock" off until sunrise?

Amazing. Cuff me......

bubba, you are really going too far with your "classroom lessons". Teach it to the new hunters. If you can sell them on it, great! If you think anybody is doing this on their second day out, your dreaming.

[growalot]

The law states all that has to be proven in intent,

OK then have I mentioned ..Reading Comprehension in the past??

[Dan92]

http://www.dec.ny.go...<br /><br />only thing i can find with a specific " regulation enforcement" on DEC

Question: Can I use a light at night to "spotlight"or look for deer from my car?

Answer: It is legal in New York to use artificial light to spot deer as long as those firearms, not possessed pursuant to a handgun permit, are locked in the trunk, completely secured in a case, or broken down. Compound bows, long bows and crossbows are broken down if unstrung. You may not operate an artificial light within 500' of a dwelling without consent of the owner/lessee.

Question: What are the legal hunting hours?

Answer: Legal hunting hours vary by species being hunted. Check the Hunting and Trapping Guidebook for specific legal hunting hours. As a general rule, sunrise to sunset are the legal hunting hours for most species. Turkey hunting hours vary according to season, ½ hour before sunrise to 12 noon during the spring, sunrise to sunset during the fall. Migratory waterfowl are from ½ hour before sunrise to sunset. Some furbearers can be hunted 24 hours a day while in season.

Edited October 21, 2012 by danc0320

[RTF]

Bubba, if there are laws against having a loaded weapon or having your bow disabled after sunset or before sunrise, please look it up in your book and post the reference numbers, they can all be looked up online.

I think Bubba has made it perfectly clear that there are no such laws, at least that is what I got from his posts. He is only advising us on ways of to avoid an intent charge if and ever we are stopped by DEC after sunset during deer season.

[RTF]

By the way I met the court justice who handled my case the following weekend while in the woods hunting....He apoligized for issuing the fine. He said he knew the DEC had a bogus case but if he does not hand out the fines he gets complaints from the DEC.

First of all I think that judge needs to grow a pair and also be removed from office for being incompetent and unprofessional.

.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Ok my last post. You are reading the regulation guide, which is very basic, I have the book of encon laws as I need it for my second profession. If you could actually read the law and not a GUIDE, you would understand you as well as the rest do not know the laws, you know the guidelines. There is a big difference. If you want to push the envelope, continue to do so. I guess I do not understand why you would not do something simple to show you have no intent, and not spend extra time explaining how you are "Coyote hunting" and risk a ticket, why would you not want to do so? Just don't hide behind the false sense of security the guide gives you. The law states all that has to be proven in intent, Best of luck. If you get a ticket don't complain and say the officer needs to catch real criminals.

Actually bubba said right here that we dont know the real laws concerning this subject. I like to know the laws and am asking to be enlightened.

[Nomad]

Just got a call, from someone "in the know" he drives a green jeep with emblems on the doors and light bar on top.... He said you can have your gun loaded,arrow knocked in complete darkness there is nothing written in the law against it. You could sit in your stand at 2AM with a loaded gun and untill you FIRE at a deer,you've done nothing wrong. He even mentioned coyotes.... which you could shoot.

Now if your creeping along a field edge watching,stopping ect. you could have an issue.One such time he arrested the guy because he asked him "what are you doing? and he said he thought something might pop out..". If the guy did not say that there was not much he could have done.

We're going to meet up next time I hunt,if anyone has more questions.

[Paula]

seems like someone said it wasn't against the law

[Jennifer]

Yes indeed I do, I have a family member who is one, I have a nephew going to college to become one and I know 2 personally, I can walk behind my house and see half a dozen of them on any given day during salmon season. There is a DEC station a few miles down the road from me where they bring in many extra officers to patrol this area and its where they stay. I see them daily, I talk with them often. I have been stopped and checked for license many, many times. Its just natural for the area I live in. I also grew up around them in the fish hatchery while playing, helping, and trapping that area up till I was 18. And chip may be a good point as these guys spend alot of time on there feet chasing yahoos around from all over the country and Im sure it just puts them on edge. I have tried to make my point and a point made that was directly told to me by law enforcement. These guys have seen it all, heard every excuse and are pretty wise to whats bull and what isnt. Im headed to camp I will rant with you guys in a couple weeks geeeeeesh.

I am sorry, then. It just seemed like a lot of the folks here were assuming what an ECO would think, without really having any idea. I was getting the vibe that a lot of people were getting a hate on for them without a solid reason. If you have family/know some ECOs and they've told you how they feel about this specific situation, then I do apologize.

For what it's worth, I have asked two of the guys I worked with this specific situation, and they told me similarly to what was posted above-- as long as you're following all other local and state laws, they wouldn't bust someone based on having a loaded weapon alone. I unload anyhow, but that's just my choice.

It's entirely possible that the ECOs from different regions have different tolerence levels-- where I live there is a pretty low population of people/hunters/ECOs. I've actually never seen an ECO in 20 years of hunting, other than at the office, funny enough.

Good luck to you!

[BornToHunt]

My interpretation of hunting hours are from when i can see to when i cant see anymore.

[d-bone20917]

My interpretation of hunting hours are from when i can see to when i cant see anymore.

So with snow on the ground and a full moon you can pretty much hunt all night.

[Doc]

Just got a call, from someone "in the know" he drives a green jeep with emblems on the doors and light bar on top.... He said you can have your gun loaded,arrow knocked in complete darkness there is nothing written in the law against it. You could sit in your stand at 2AM with a loaded gun and untill you FIRE at a deer,you've done nothing wrong. He even mentioned coyotes.... which you could shoot.

Now if your creeping along a field edge watching,stopping ect. you could have an issue.One such time he arrested the guy because he asked him "what are you doing? and he said he thought something might pop out..". If the guy did not say that there was not much he could have done.

We're going to meet up next time I hunt,if anyone has more questions.

I have a copy of the "Environmental Conservation Law of New York". I spent a significant amount of time on stand this morning trying to find some mention of a law regarding disabling a bow or emptying a gun during hours outside of legal hunting times. Yeah, I know ...... that's a heck of a way to hunt .... lol. But I did frequently stop and scan the area for incoming deer. As it turned out, the wind was blowing like a hurricane, and I suspect the deer were all hugging the ground.

Anyway, the only references to disarming that I could find regarded the use of lights or transport in motor vehicles, and had nothing to do with hunting hours. So, I came to the same conclusion as above that this idea of a requirement to lock bows and empty guns is pretty much something that somebody made up and maybe thought might make a good law. If somebody can point out the exact section number and paragraph designation of such a law, I will stand corrected. But until that time I have decided that the disarming requirement is pretty much BS.

[Paula]

kinda sad Doc that you brought reading material out hunting with you. You could have saved yourself time and read what was said. He said it wasn't a law on the first page he said a dec officer comes to the class and suggested it. hope you didn't miss a deer, it was a great day to be out there thats for sure.

[growalot]

As I said it is not a law it is a recommendation form a local dec officer. I would prefer to buy a 2 buck lock and have it on to prove there was no intent than to be shook down for a while and get a ticket.

Can't have it both ways JP's can't give tickets just because of a suggestion of a ECO....This is not the wild west.....I do enjoy the "getting shook down " reference...says a lot......

JP's can only give tickets for violations of ordinances and LAWS...not on psychic "intent"

I read on stand all the time....no different than playing games on your phone or texting ppl

[Paula]

Can't have it both ways JP's can't give tickets just because of a suggestion of a ECO....This is not the wild west.....I do enjoy the "getting shook down " reference...says a lot......

JP's can only give tickets for violations of ordinances and LAWS...not on psychic "intent"

I read on stand all the time....no different than playing games on your phone or texting ppl

You like to be shook down? lol

I so enjoys looking around and hearing what is going on around me. i do sometimes take pictures first thing in morning as the sun is coming up and at the end of day, this is when i get kind bored

[bubba]

Can't have it both ways JP's can't give tickets just because of a suggestion of a ECO....This is not the wild west.....I do enjoy the "getting shook down " reference...says a lot......

JP's can only give tickets for violations of ordinances and LAWS...not on psychic "intent"

I read on stand all the time....no different than playing games on your phone or texting ppl

I am not sure what world you live in, but JP can not give tickets. I have to call a law enforcement officer and make out a complaint about others if they break the law. I can issue an arrest warrant or search warrant based up the word of an officer. (affidavit) There is a big difference. A JP sits behind the bench and listens to the stories about how everyone in front of them is innocent. I read the law to them and I read the report form the officer. If the person in front of me so chooses, they can have a trial. Most times when you explain the laws, they decide to take their lumps. I also preside over small claims court and can perform weddings, which I would gladly do for anyone on this dote free of charge. I do my best to help out a fellow hunter. So I am bot sure where the thinking came form that I have it both ways, I have a feeling you are not bothering to read posts but just attack when you read the first line. Slow down read try to comprehend, then respond if necessary. There is a reason you have two ears and one mouth, so you listen twice as much as you speak. So all of you continue to interpret things the way you choose. Quite honestly I could not care less. When you get shook down, don't cry foul is all I can say. If you read the definition of hunting, and when after dark you are walking out of the woods, with a loaded gun and you bump a deer and it runs off, you are hunting according to the definition as you have harassed and worried the wild life. Better not get caught doing it by the officer who may be waiting for you when you get to your vehicle and the gun is loaded. GOOD LUCK to you all. I apologize for pointing out the obvious and seeing all who prefer not to play by the rules.

[Dinsdale]

Bubba, if there are laws against having a loaded weapon or having your bow disabled after sunset or before sunrise, please look it up in your book and post the reference numbers, they can all be looked up online.

Still waiting..........

[bubba]

Ask Doc I guess his life is so boring, he has nothing to do but reads the encon laws. But first go back and read all the posts, and your answer is there.

[Lawdwaz]

I am not sure what world you live in, but JP can not give tickets. I have to call a law enforcement officer and make out a complaint about others if they break the law. I can issue an arrest warrant or search warrant based up the word of an officer. (affidavit) There is a big difference. A JP sits behind the bench and listens to the stories about how everyone in front of them is innocent. I read the law to them and I read the report form the officer. If the person in front of me so chooses, they can have a trial. Most times when you explain the laws, they decide to take their lumps. I also preside over small claims court and can perform weddings, which I would gladly do for anyone on this dote free of charge. I do my best to help out a fellow hunter. So I am bot sure where the thinking came form that I have it both ways, I have a feeling you are not bothering to read posts but just attack when you read the first line. Slow down read try to comprehend, then respond if necessary. There is a reason you have two ears and one mouth, so you listen twice as much as you speak. So all of you continue to interpret things the way you choose. Quite honestly I could not care less. When you get shook down, don't cry foul is all I can say. If you read the definition of hunting, and when after dark you are walking out of the woods, with a loaded gun and you bump a deer and it runs off, you are hunting according to the definition as you have harassed and worried the wild life. Better not get caught doing it by the officer who may be waiting for you when you get to your vehicle and the gun is loaded. GOOD LUCK to you all. I apologize for pointing out the obvious and seeing all who prefer not to play by the rules.

Funny, I pulled this from your OP in the thread you started about those damned guys sneaking 50 yards onto your side of the mountain:

"They were promised next time there will be law involved and I will arraign them on the spot and send them to jail. I can not do that, but they do not know that. "

Nice stuff bubba.