Interpretation of hunting hours

[nyantler]

I don't see this as a fair comparison. If the fish are illegal and he has possession of the fish, actually seeing him pull the fish out of the water is not needed.

Having an unloaded weapon in my car is legal. Holding a bullet is legal.

This changes, of course, if the officer sees you fidgeting with your weapon as he approaches your car.

Exactly... if the bucket was empty.. the guy couldn't be arrested for having illegal fish.. just like he can't be arrested for a loaded weapon in a vehicle if the weapon wasn't loaded... I don't see the comparison either to a full bucket of fish and an unloaded gun with ammo in reach.

[jjb4900]

I don't see this as a fair comparison. If the fish are illegal and he has possession of the fish, actually seeing him pull the fish out of the water is not needed.

Having an unloaded weapon in my car is legal. Holding a bullet is legal.

This changes, of course, if the officer sees you fidgeting with your weapon as he approaches your car.

finally, someone who sees when the game changes, you're last sentence is perfect...........add some other factor's in and everything change's...if you scroll back and find my post that add's in several factor's, you'll see how and when after all the surrounding information is put together, you can be ticketed for something that was not observed, like it or not..............the outcome after court may or may not be in your favor.

[Nomad]

Funny you should mention fishing. years back we were camping at fairhaven state park. One morning we took the kids to the to pier to fish. My 2 had poles I did not. my friend the same. We were putting on worms taking off sunnies.

Dec cop boat pulls up, asks for my fishin Lic. I said i don't even have a pole ! says I need a ic. to help my kids fish. he runs me in the comp. I'm good to go. My buddy who has no pole and is just baiting his kids, is run trhough the comp. no fishing lic. he gets a ticket .

ok fine you need a Lic to bait your kids hook. no boggie he owns factory and the fine is nothing to him.

But then the econ walks over to a 3rd dad doing the same thing, this dad shrugs his shoulders and the Econ cop says OK and walks away WTF . Now thats a @*&&^ or a rookie .Its a roll of the dice who stops you.

[growalot]

It's who you know.....

[WNYBuckHunter]

finally, someone who sees when the game changes, you're last sentence is perfect...........add some other factor's in and everything change's...if you scroll back and find my post that add's in several factor's, you'll see how and when after all the surrounding information is put together, you can be ticketed for something that was not observed, like it or not..............the outcome after court may or may not be in your favor.

Of course some things may change the circumstances. Nobody has said any differently. Nothing you have stated changes the FACT that a loaded gun after dark is not illegal, you need other extenuating circumstances for it to be an offense. I am at a total loss as to what your point has been this whole time lol.

[fasteddie]

After reading the last page or two , I say don't have a gun next to you if you have a fish in your hand !

[agross]

The dec regs say "hunting hours" from sunrise to sunset. If you think that if you get caught in the woods before or after this time with a loaded firearm that you would not considered to be hunting and not get ticketed your crazy.

Just take the same scenario and apply it to any other situation (time of day irrelevant) if you are sitting next to a house that you dont have permission to hunt near with a loaded firearm in blaze camo with deer scents and a grut tube you are considered hunting.

If you are a field with a firearm during the open deer season you are considered hunting. Do you really think that you can claim that if you used the excuse "i am hunting coyotes" with a shotgun and buckshot that a dec officer can not ticket you your crazy. You think that same excuse would fly if you legally tagged out on deer and were then with a hunting party claiming "im waiting for the deer drive to push out a coyote" will work good luck.

Im sure that the DEC dont want to bust Ba@#$ but if your in the woods with a weapon what else are you doing there? You are not bird watching.

Also, regardless of probable cause or prima facie you are gonna get a ticket and then have to argue your way out of it. Granted most DEC officers wont harass you because they have bigger fish to fry as in spot lighting deer jackers, baiters, etc which i am sure is very prevalent during the firearms season.

Its just a matter of luck of the draw. Chances are you are never gonna see a DEC officer while hunting. In my 25 years of hunting i have only encountered 1 DEC officer while in the woods and that was just prior to the deer season on state land shooting red squirrels. We were sooting at one and he came up very polite and asked if we werre licensed, we all turned our backs on him and showed ou tags and then he asked "dont you think that is a lot of lead for a little fur?" and we said no and kept shooting. No problems and he was on his way.

[Sogaard]

I'm not rehashing my arguments for someone jumping in at page 10 of a post, but if you read the thread, we are not crazy, we just feel we should have to do something illegal before we are ticketed for doing something illegal.

Walking around the woods with a loaded weapon is not a crime.

And this thread started with this scenario in mind:

You hunted legally all day.

You stay in the woods till sunset

At that point you start back out to your truck because you can no longer legally hunt deer.

The DEC officer who happens to be waiting at your truck writes you a ticket because while you were leaving the woods, you didn't unload your weapon yet and its after legal hunting hours.

Edited October 25, 2012 by Sogaard

[jjb4900]

I really don't think that many DEC Officer's wait for guy's to walk out of the wood's after legal shooting time and ticket hunter's....they all know how people hunt and realize guy's need time to come in and out of the wood's......is there anyone who has experienced this?

[WNYBuckHunter]

If you are a field with a firearm during the open deer season you are considered hunting. Do you really think that you can claim that if you used the excuse "i am hunting coyotes" with a shotgun and buckshot that a dec officer can not ticket you your crazy.

Well, seeing as its illegal to shoot a deer with buckshot in NY, you be illegally hunting deer with that setup, time of day wouldnt matter. If a DEC officer encounters someone with a shotty loaded with buckshot, it probably IS someone predator hunting.

[growalot]

Just take the same scenario and apply it to any other situation (time of day irrelevant) if you are sitting next to a house that you dont have permission to hunt near with a loaded firearm in blaze camo with deer scents and a grut tube you are considered hunting.

Ohh please don't try to insinuate that that is a ticketing offense...because you are dead wrong...believe you me!....I know that law inside and out and you can sit in a stand in BO...grunting away...with a loaded weapon what ever you want next to a persons house you have no right to hunt next to....but it is ALL perfectly legal UNTIL you fire your weapon

What is illegal is to fire a weapon with in 500 ft of a dwelling you don't have permission to hunt near

[Pygmy]

I agree with Growie on this one.

She is correct...Not wanting to flog a deceased equine, that is all I intend to say about this subject. Besides, it's time for my NAP...

Edited October 25, 2012 by Pygmy

[agross]

Im not jumping in on either side of the argument. I have walked in an hour before dark (because of how far i had to walk and how i learned grwing up hunting) both gun and bow. I will admit i never did anything to my bow but with gun i usually never loaded my gu just because felt safer walking in the dark with an uloaded firearm.

I think it is ridiculous also. However on the legal side of it the assumption can easily be made that you are hunting after legal shooting hours which would be enough for a summons. I also persoanlly know guys that were ticketed on long island as they were walking out of the woods at dark and the DEC was waiting at their car saying "its past hunting time what are you doing in the woods with a weapon"

How many of us have been in the woods during gun season and have heard gun shots going off when it is barely light enough to see. Did someone shoot one or did their gun accidentally go off? Every year i hear more than a dozen shots where i gun hunt (Town of afton in Chenango County) Take all that into consideration and then think why a DEC officer would have enough to write you a summons.

Whether he is right or wrong or just an over zealous DEC officer you will still have to go to Court and defend yourself and a lot of times you will be considered guilty before innocent and that is from experience.

Edited October 26, 2012 by agross

[Doc]

It certainly is frustrating to have laws that are written in terms that can cause 10 pages of discussion as to how those laws are to be applied. The legal system is guaranteed to make a criminal out of you just about any time a LEO wants to make an arrest. Yes they say that ignorance of the law is no excuse. And then we have laws that are misinterpreted by even the people who enforce them, and cause ten forum pages of widely differing interpretations. Frankly, these clowns that write the laws don't seem to have even the basic understanding of communication skills. And these are supposed to be our trained, super-educated, legal minds that are conjuring up these fiascos. It wouldn't be so bad if it were just this one law, but a quick review of some of the topics that show up here, indicates that almost every law has many interpretations.

Oh, and that's only conservation laws that we are talking about here. Imagine the laws you are inadvertantly breaking daily when we consider the rest of the legal system. We're all a bunch of crooks .... lol.