Crossbow Debate 2013...

[Culvercreek hunt club]

D---again.... I understand your comments but it is all about what the "other" hunters would be doing. Let's say it is 100% included and offers all hunters the opportunity to participate in the archery season. How would their choice to use one or not use one effect you?

[d-bone20917]

D---again.... I understand your comments but it is all about what the "other" hunters would be doing. Let's say it is 100% included and offers all hunters the opportunity to participate in the archery season. How would their choice to use one or not use one effect you?

You are absolutely right. It wouldn't affect me at all. I'll keep practicing everyday and hunting with my recurve. I just think it will steer others away from learning to shoot a bow because they can just use a crossbow instead. But ultimately it has zero impact on me.

Do you think being able to start hunting early has encouraged people to take up archery?

[growalot]

WNYBH...well I agree with some of your post but not all...yep unless your in a blind or standing with a shooting stick or a gun rest they are big bulky and require as much movement as a gun...for me maybe less than my bow...

Getting off a cleaner/good shot for someone not use to close up slower moving projectile...especially with the noise they make...I don't believe cross bows should be allowed unless ppl have to go through a bow hunting safety course and still think they should be in small game first...This state NEEDS more small game hunters and getting use to cross bows there could increase hunter participation

Do I need to remind you guys of the threads where wounded bow deer got a bit nasty? why should cross bows be viewed any different than vertical if you call them bows require the safety course

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Do you think being able to start hunting early has encouraged people to take up archery?

I think the earlier the better given one constraint. It varies with each kid on wheter they are emotionally ready for all the parts of hunting. There may be 12 year olds that are ready and some that might have difficulty with things like the blood and a possible flopping deer. As a parent we have to curb our desire to share our sport and let the child steer the level of envolvment. (did that sound to head shrinky...lol)

We have had other posts here on the evolution of a hunter and I think it really is true. I think many of us like taking on new challenges and as we develop we like the challenges to get harder. I can see kids getting hooke on archery with a crossbow and then developing the skills and wanting a tougher challenge and moving to a compound. I can also see the next move being a longbow. As age and physical issues make that difficult I can also see regressing to a compound again and then back to a crossbow. All in the light of enjoying our sport. I see the same thing happeing with a gun. I actually carried my pistol for a lot of the season this year. I was actually able to take a nice buck and a doe with it. It felt better than if I had used the rifle or shotgun (but I still carried them many times this year and conditions warranted). I see it a a tool and no tool will make the hunter. an unethical "slob: with be an unethical "slob" no matter what they carry, which is what I think WNY was trying to say. Let them be as accurate with the little effort they are willing to put in.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Where was the spin? I though your point was people don't have time to practice with a bow and wind up wounding animals. So lets give them something easier to hunt with. Was that not your point?

No, Im not saying your hunt will be any easier, Im saying shooting accurately will be slightly easier. Still have to get close and not get busted.

[WNYBuckHunter]

WNYBH...well I agree with some of your post but not all...yep unless your in a blind or standing with a shooting stick or a gun rest they are big bulky and require as much movement as a gun...for me maybe less than my bow...

Getting off a cleaner/good shot for someone not use to close up slower moving projectile...especially with the noise they make...I don't believe cross bows should be allowed unless ppl have to go through a bow hunting safety course and still think they should be in small game first...This state NEEDS more small game hunters and getting use to cross bows there could increase hunter participation

Do I need to remind you guys of the threads where wounded bow deer got a bit nasty? why should cross bows be viewed any different than vertical if you call them bows require the safety course

If youre in a blind with a vertical bow, your movement is significantly obscured by the blind anyhow, so it doesnt matter which one you are shooting. You can get a rest for your compound as well, they attach right to your stabilizer.

Maybe I should have been more clear, I was referring to treestand and ground hunting.

As far as the safety course goes, you can bet that they will be included into the hunters safety course, because they will be allowed throughout the season. You have to take that course before your archery course anyway, so why would there be a separate one for them?

[growalot]

Posted Today, 09:23 AM

WNYBH...well I agree with some of your post but not all...yep unless your in a blind or standing with a shooting stick or a gun rest they are big bulky and require as much movement as a gun...for me maybe less than my bow...

I thought that's what I said....

I'm not saying a separate course but they allowed them in gun with out a bow course while they claimed the same limitations as vertical bows...so they should HAVE TO TAKE A BOW SAFETY/INSTRUCTION course to be allowed in bow season...if not what is the use of even having a bow safety course?

[Five Seasons]

Crossbows dont have much of an advantage over a vertical bow anyway, and they have some disadvantages as well.

im going to mostly stay out of this from now on, but I disagree with this. An instrument that is being pushed mostly because it'll increase numbers and allow disabled and elderly to use it must offer some advantages no? Why else wouldn't they just be hunting with a re-curve or compound? You can't have it both ways. It either offers advantages for those that can't use a compound or it wont increase numbers because it doesn't offer advantages. For the final time I'l add that this should be added during archery for elderly and handicapped. But why will more people start hunting during archery if it's challenge is the same as that of a compound? Non bow hunters will go out and drop a grand for a crossbow now? If they wanted to during archery they would have already bought a bow.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I'm not saying a separate course but they allowed them in gun with out a bow course while they claimed the same limitations as vertical bows...so they should HAVE TO TAKE A BOW SAFETY/INSTRUCTION course to be allowed in bow season...if not what is the use of even having a bow safety course?

Seeing as you cant hunt during archery season without taking the necessary safety course, or purchase the lisence to do so currently, Im not sure I understand what you are getting at.

[Five Seasons]

Nonsense. You still have to bring the crossbow up to a firing position. It requires almost as much movement, and the crossbow is bulkier and more cumbersome than most compound bows.

dude you cant possibly believe that. Raising a crossbow is the same as drawing and then holding the draw? it's like raising a gun with a bigger footprint

[WNYBuckHunter]

im going to mostly stay out of this from now on, but I disagree with this. An instrument that is being pushed mostly because it'll increase numbers and allow disabled and elderly to use it must offer some advantages no? Why else wouldn't they just be hunting with a re-curve or compound? You can't have it both ways. It either offers advantages for those that can't use a compound or it wont increase numbers because it doesn't offer advantages. For the final time I'l add that this should be added during archery for elderly and handicapped. But why will more people start hunting during archery if it's challenge is the same as that of a compound? Non bow hunters will go out and drop a grand for a crossbow now? If they wanted to during archery they would have already bought a bow.

Disagree with it all you want, it doesnt change the fact that the crossbow does have some disadvantages in certain areas to a compound bow, just like a compound has some disadvantages to the crossbow in certain respects. You can, and do have it both ways.

You still have to get close enough to the deer, do you not? That is one of the biggest challenges to archery hunting.

I know multiple people that would love to hunt archery season, but for various reasons currently do not. If they could use a crossbow during archery, they would.

[WNYBuckHunter]

dude you cant possibly believe that. Raising a crossbow is the same as drawing and then holding the draw? it's like raising a gun with a bigger footprint

And the bigger footprint is where the problems occur. What? you have never been busted at close range raising your gun? I have. Now add in that bigger footprint and you have a better chance of being busted.

Hows that NYB Kool-aid, still tasty "dude"?

[Five Seasons]

Do you think being able to start hunting early has encouraged people to take up archery?

there is nothing better in deer hunting for me than late october bow hunting. The rut is on, the deer aren't running only into the wind because of the guns going off, there's a lot more wildlife around, it's warmer and it's more challenging and therefore more rewarding to me.

I do wonder as well, if when my son comes of age if he will even want to learn to shoot a bow, or just take the xbow up right off the bat.

My real question, and maybe there will be answer that will finally get me over to the other side is this: Excluding elderly and handicap; why would a current non bow hunter start hunting archery season if crossbows were legal? A good answer there and you'll get me over to the dark side.

[Five Seasons]

And the bigger footprint is where the problems occur. What? you have never been busted at close range raising your gun? I have. Now add in that bigger footprint and you have a better chance of being busted.

Hows that NYB Kool-aid, still tasty "dude"?

delicious. I've certainly been busted drawing more then raising my gun. Is there anyone who hunts equally with both instruments that has had it the other way around?

I thought that's what I said....

I'm not saying a separate course but they allowed them in gun with out a bow course while they claimed the same limitations as vertical bows...so they should HAVE TO TAKE A BOW SAFETY/INSTRUCTION course to be allowed in bow season...if not what is the use of even having a bow safety course?

Don't they have to take the course to get their tag anyhow? i sure hope there's not a loophole there where the bowhunter has to take a course but the xbow hunter does not.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Belo

[Culvercreek hunt club]

We have had other posts here on the evolution of a hunter and I think it really is true. I think many of us like taking on new challenges and as we develop we like the challenges to get harder. I can see kids getting hooke on archery with a crossbow and then developing the skills and wanting a tougher challenge and moving to a compound. I can also see the next move being a longbow. As age and physical issues make that difficult I can also see regressing to a compound again and then back to a crossbow. All in the light of enjoying our sport. I see the same thing happeing with a gun. I actually carried my pistol for a lot of the season this year. I was actually able to take a nice buck and a doe with it. It felt better than if I had used the rifle or shotgun (but I still carried them many times this year and conditions warranted). I see it a a tool and no tool will make the hunter. an unethical "slob: with be an unethical "slob" no matter what they carry, which is what I think WNY was trying to say. Let them be as accurate with the little effort they are willing to put in.

That is where I see the cross bow fitting in

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Don't they have to take the course to get their tag anyhow? i sure hope there's not a loophole there where the bowhunter has to take a course but the xbow hunter does not.

Currently crossbow hunters take the hunters education that all hunter must take. I do thiknk the bow course should be added on to use the crossbow since id does share so many of the same issues, concerns and limitations.

[josephmrtn]

me too

[WNYBuckHunter]

delicious. I've certainly been busted drawing more then raising my gun. Is there anyone who hunts equally with both instruments that has had it the other way around?

I was looking for a yes or no answer. My question wasnt which one have you been busted with more. More NYB style tactics I see lol.

[nyslowhand]

Currently crossbow hunters take the hunters education that all hunter must take. I do thiknk the bow course should be added on to use the crossbow since id does share so many of the same issues, concerns and limitations.

Ditto. Thought it was kind of weird how the DEC handled Xbow education. A printed form, simply read, sign & carry. Should be mandatory to take bow class w/incorporated section covering Xbows (for all).

[growalot]

Don't they have to take the course to get their tag anyhow? i sure hope there's not a loophole there where the bowhunter has to take a course but the xbow hunter does not.

There already was...

In order to gun hunt I had to take a gun safety course to hunt with my gun

In order to bow hunt I had to take a bow hunters course to hunt with my bow

For the last 2 years in order to hunt with a cross bow all that was required was a gun safety course...

If they want cross bows in archery EVERYONE that does not have a bow hunting course should have to take the same two day course all us other bow hunters had to take inorder to go out in the woods and hunt with a bow...be it vertical or cross bow...

Edited January 22, 2013 by growalot

[WNYBuckHunter]

But theres no loophole. Crossbows have not been legal in archery season, so nobody has legally been hunting with a crossbow in archery season. The current bow course wont need to be modified much, as youll already get the crossbow education in the regular hunters safety course, which you have to take before you can archery hunt anyway.

I believe there should be a short course for people that already have done both courses in the past but want to hunt with a crossbow in any season.

[growalot]

Listen I hunted gun took a gun course to do so...I wanted to hunt with bow...which I could use during gun seasons ...but HAD to take a bow course to get a permit to use a bow....Not just to use in archery but to use at all

The DEC wants to define a cross Bow as a piece of archery equipment...they did a trial and in gun season...only requiring a gun safety course and permit with a bogus slip from on line...

If they want to allow cross bows in archery season and charge a separate archery tag...then it needs to be a archery two day course like I and thousands of others took to get and archery license...not some after thought stuck in a gun course...

the loop hole was allowing gun hunters to hunt with archery equipment in gun season with out the DEC mandatory full archery course

Residents may use a bow to take legally antlered deer and bear during the regular season provided the taker possesses both a valid Big Game license and either a current bowhunting privilege or a valid bowhunter education certificate.

Edited January 23, 2013 by growalot

[Zhe Wiz]

What are you guys so afraid of? So what if I'd rather use a crossbow instead of a bow during bow season? What's wrong with that? Just because YOU want to use a bow means I have to too? That's the main argument I hear and it makes NO SENSE. No one is gonna make you switch. Keep using your bow if that's what you want to do and it's what you enjoy.

Who cares if my son prefers the crossbow? At least he's hunting with HIS preferred tool. Just like some prefer recurves, black powder and pistols to increase the challenge, some will always use compound bows for the same reason. Even IF xbows are "better", what difference does that make exactly? Are you afraid we'll kill "your" deer?

I've been hunting all my life with a gun, just took up bow hunting 4 years ago, been using a gun for 35 years. Even with that, I'm more accurate with my bow than I am with my xbow. Groups are tighter. But I am still MUCH more comfortable shooting an xbow. That is my preference. It's still plenty challenging for me, range estimation is still CRITICAL. Better not shoot with the limbs too close to the tree either.

So why exactly should I have to use a bow? What exactly are you all afraid of? Sounds more like some odd jealousy thing more than a solid argument.

Zhe Wiz

[d-bone20917]

What are you guys so afraid of? So what if I'd rather use a crossbow instead of a bow during bow season? What's wrong with that? Just because YOU want to use a bow means I have to too? That's the main argument I hear and it makes NO SENSE. No one is gonna make you switch. Keep using your bow if that's what you want to do and it's what you enjoy.

So why not open it up to rifles also? You can still use your crossbow if you want... no one would make you switch. Are you jealous that the rifle hunters would kill all of "your" deer? Why exactly should I have to use a bow or crossbow if I want to use a rifle? Why not just have one open season where you can use whatever you want? Your argument makes NO SENSE.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Listen I hunted gun took a gun course to do so...I wanted to hunt with bow...which I could use during gun seasons ...but HAD to take a bow course to get a permit to use a bow....Not just to use in archery but to use at all

The DEC wants to define a cross Bow as a piece of archery equipment...they did a trial and in gun season...only requiring a gun safety course and permit with a bogus slip from on line...

If they want to allow cross bows in archery season and charge a separate archery tag...then it needs to be a archery two day course like I and thousands of others took to get and archery license...not some after thought stuck in a gun course...

the loop hole was allowing gun hunters to hunt with archery equipment in gun season with out the DEC mandatory full archery course

The DEC archery course allows you to hunt during archery season. In fact, you can hunt along side archery hunters in the late season with a Muzzle loader, and you dont take a separate class for that.

The last 2 years with crossbows was an experimental or trial thing, so expecting the DEC to put a whole new system in place (costs money) for a trial period is not realistic.

Did the DEC go about the inclusion of crossbows completely the wrong way? IMO, yes they did, but like I said, it was a trial and Im sure not what will be put into place once crossbows are permanently included.