Let's throw some gas on the fire - MI Report

[phade]

This whole thing is really a joke, and some of you on both sides need to come off your pedestals

 

I hear this argument all the time by people who don’t have a rite to bit**

 

1 Do you own land?

1. Then make your own rules and don’t allow them

2. You don’t own land? Huh

            A. how dare you try to tell a landowner what type of bow they can use on land they pay taxes on

 

How about a  little compromise

 

If the state wants to keep state land compound only, O.K

 

However don’t dare tell a taxpayer what kind of bow he can use

While I see where you are coming from - the biggest whiff is that it isn't about the land...it's about the deer, which are not owned by the landowner. You can shoot an xbow all you want on your land right now. It's when it's used in a hunting context on deer that is in question in this thread. Again, I get your drift, but the situation changes when you are flinging it a deer.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Well, as I said, you just choose a different starting point for your exclusionary, elitist and selfish attitudes (your definition not mine) to kick in. All the things that you accuse the NYB of being, fit right into your attitudes once you have crammed the crossbows into the season. You still have ideas of excluding some hunters from the early bow season and that attitude is what you are calling elitist and selfish. No difference. And I'm not saying there is anything wrong with being selective as to what goes into "special seasons". That's what makes them special. And that is exactly what the NYB is saying. But don't be calling the NYB names for the very same thing that you want to do. You simply have a difference of opinion with the NYB as to where to draw the line and you choose to rant and rave and villify them with name-calling because of it. If that's the way you handle differences of opinion.... well what can I say about that? That just sounds like some kind of personal problem to me......lol.

 

So let me make sure this is perfectly clear, you are saying that anyone that opposes the inclusion of GUNS into an ARCHERY season is being elitist and selfish?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I think crossbows would be voted down if only bowhunters voted.  And I think it would be a landslide.  The only people I know personally that support crossbows in archery are people that don't bow hunt and see crossbows as an easy way to get into it.  

I see the opposite where I am. The bow hunters I know would vote for it. I don't know one bowhunter that is against it. I do know quite a few like me that wouldn't use one if it did get included and don't see how another using one would affect my hunting one bit.

 

[Five Seasons]

This whole thing is really a joke, and some of you on both sides need to come off your pedestals

 

I hear this argument all the time by people who don’t have a rite to bit**

 

1 Do you own land?

1. Then make your own rules and don’t allow them

2. You don’t own land? Huh

            A. how dare you try to tell a landowner what type of bow they can use on land they pay taxes on

 

How about a  little compromise

 

If the state wants to keep state land compound only, O.K

 

However don’t dare tell a taxpayer what kind of bow he can use

 

with that logic, I should be able to hunt day or night, over bait piles and all year long right? You don't own the deer just because you own the land.

 

[verminater71]

with that logic, I should be able to hunt day or night, over bait piles and all year long right? You don't own the deer just because you own the land.

 

listen, I just had to go through this with rifles in shotgun only area's....

 

the farms I hunt said NO Rifles, it was there decision not mine, I still hunt with my 870, in rifle country

 

as far as owning the deer....try harder than that

 

if a man owns 1,000acres provides food and cover for an animal, pays taxes out the a** he has more right than you to decide

 

 

why is it always some yuppie, works in an office, lives in a cute little subdivision  always has more say than the guy who works the land and pay's taxes on it

[verminater71]

While I see where you are coming from - the biggest whiff is that it isn't about the land...it's about the deer, which are not owned by the landowner. You can shoot an xbow all you want on your land right now. It's when it's used in a hunting context on deer that is in question in this thread. Again, I get your drift, but the situation changes when you are flinging it a deer.

 

 

so what this comes down to is....someone might shoot your deer....

 

problem is someone might shoot it in youth season, while coyote hunting at night with a rifle you can't controle everything

 

I have seen way to many deer jacked in this state, to stop x-bow hunting because someone might shoot my deer

 

I'm at the point now where I could care less about hunting in this state, with all the BS.....I just might start going on one hunting trip a year out west

 

phade

don't you hunt ohio every year, don't they allow x-bow, hasn't stoped you from going there, won't stop you from hunting here either, and some nice looking deer coming out of ohio, I think

 

Edited March 25, 2013 by verminater71

[phade]

You're missing the point - state owns the deer. It's not mine. I hunt way too many small parcels to ever think a deer is mine.

Edited March 25, 2013 by phade

[phade]

so what this comes down to is....someone might shoot your deer....

 

problem is someone might shoot it in youth season, while coyote hunting at night with a rifle you can't controle everything

 

I have seen way to many deer jacked in this state, to stop x-bow hunting because someone might shoot my deer

 

I'm at the point now where I could care less about hunting in this state, with all the BS.....I just might start going on one hunting trip a year out west

 

phade

don't you hunt ohio every year, don't they allow x-bow, hasn't stoped you from going there, won't stop you from hunting here either, and some nice looking deer coming out of ohio, I think

Yup - I hunt there. Does that mean I support or not support xbow use? Nope.

 

Based on what I see of xbow there alone - I would not support it here.

[Five Seasons]

listen, I just had to go through this with rifles in shotgun only area's....

 

the farms I hunt said NO Rifles, it was there decision not mine, I still hunt with my 870, in rifle country

 

as far as owning the deer....try harder than that

 

if a man owns 1,000acres provides food and cover for an animal, pays taxes out the a** he has more right than you to decide

 

 

why is it always some yuppie, works in an office, lives in a cute little subdivision  always has more say than the guy who works the land and pay's taxes on it

 

I hope you're not calling me a yuppie in a sub-division because you're so far off it's laughable. But honestly, how many men do you know who own a thousand acres? And for what it's worth, this is the united states of america. Our politicians decide. Not me, not any organization and not any farmers. If you don't like that, there are plenty of areas around the world where warlords rule and can implement which laws they chose or do not.

 

those pushing for land owners to decide what happens on their property also seem to be the same who are pushing to simplify the confusion with our hunting regulations. Do you have any idea how confusing things would get if land owners made their own rules?

Edited March 25, 2013 by Belo

[Four Season Whitetail's]

You're missing the point - state owns the deer. It's not mine. I hunt way too many small parcels to ever think a deer is mine.

The way i see it is if that deer stands on my 700 acres i do own it while it is there and can tell whom and to a point what that deer will be shot with!  Kinda like its mine for today and may be yours in the morning!

[d-bone20917]

You're missing the point - state owns the deer. It's not mine. I hunt way too many small parcels to ever think a deer is mine.

 

I know this has nothing to do with this thread, but I think it is worth noting.  The game animals belong to the public.  The state is just responsible for managing them within it's borders.   

[d-bone20917]

The way i see it is if that deer stands on my 700 acres i do own it while it is there and can tell whom and to a point what that deer will be shot with!  Kinda like its mine for today and may be yours in the morning!

 

Regardless of who's property it's on it belongs to all of us.  However, you have the right to kill that animal if you follow all the rules set by the state.  If we all set our own rules for the deer on our land it would be chaos.  

[buckarcher79]

I think crossbows would be voted down if only bowhunters voted.  And I think it would be a landslide.  The only people I know personally that support crossbows in archery are people that don't bow hunt and see crossbows as an easy way to get into it.  

 

Agreed! I would have never tought of crossbows intill this debate. Out of all my family and friends that bow hunt... thats over 15 people ,  they all feel the same about crossbows. Its not exactly a bow and it should not just be allowed throughout the entire archery season, but I still think that they should make it allowed for elders... probably people over the age of 60-65 that way they too can still enjoy the season.

 

I believe most Pro Crossbow hunters are gun hunters first.. What I mean first is they do Bow hunt, but dont really take it as serious as Gun.. and some dont bow hunt at all and just want to take advantage. With that being said I would still support it if both sides came to an agreement and decided when to use crossbow. I would like to use one in the right season. Like Doc mentioned earlier the bow season never included crossbow, so if it is so important that it gets included than perhaps NYCC can negotiate something out with NYB to resolve this instead of just fighting.  Again I am not in favor for crossbows... but thats just my opinion. I resepect every others hunters as well. 

 

I just hope they come up with a compromise that everyone can feel ok with.

[WNYBuckHunter]

 

 

I believe most Pro Crossbow hunters are gun hunters first.. What I mean first is they do Bow hunt, but dont really take it as serious as Gun.. and some dont bow hunt at all and just want to take advantage.

 

I am a HUNTER first and foremost, weapon be damned. I take my bow hunting more seriously than I do my gun hunting (which I take pretty seriously as well), because you have to if you want to be successful at it.

 

Anyone that wants to be successful at crossbow hunting will need to take it just as seriously as guys hunting with a compound. The only part they will be able to be a tad less vigilant with is their actual shooting practice, and IMO, thats not that bad of a thing. I see far too many guys that pick their bow up a week before season, practice one or twice and then wound animals, mostly because they dont practice enough for various reasons. Id rather put a crossbow in those guys hands and give them a better chance make a clean kill.

[phade]

The way i see it is if that deer stands on my 700 acres i do own it while it is there and can tell whom and to a point what that deer will be shot with!  Kinda like its mine for today and may be yours in the morning!

That's insane. Do you also use a spotlight at night to jack them? How about a rifle in shotgun only areas? Or, maybe the day before the season is OK? How about that turkey on April 30th? Is that OK too?

 

I'm all for owner rights, but when it involves something not belonging to you and instead to Joe Public, then others have a say.

 

If I step on your property with your permission, do you get to start calling me Kunta if you so desire? Yes, masa, yo' wish sho nuff good fo me. I like ta make monee for my masa so we can have one o dem good ol fashioned  meals with curnbread, graveyy and gritz. Ownership is not entitlement of everything.

Edited March 25, 2013 by phade

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I don't believe that anyone here is saying to let the land owners set the regulations...are they? I was more speaking to the fact that is a landowner didn't want crossbows during archery season and they wer legal they could set the rule that they can't be used. I do know land owners in rifle country that do not allow them on their property. THey don't feel comfortable and i believe they have that right.

[BizCT]

listen, I just had to go through this with rifles in shotgun only area's....

 

the farms I hunt said NO Rifles, it was there decision not mine, I still hunt with my 870, in rifle country

 

as far as owning the deer....try harder than that

 

if a man owns 1,000acres provides food and cover for an animal, pays taxes out the a** he has more right than you to decide

 

 

why is it always some yuppie, works in an office, lives in a cute little subdivision  always has more say than the guy who works the land and pay's taxes on it

 

Who is forcing you to own 1,000 acres?

Who is forcing you to provide food and cover for animals?

 

If you don't like paying taxes on 1,000 acres, try selling your property.

If you dont like providing food and cover for animals on your property, then don't do anything. Nobody will care.

 

You buy your hunting license ever year just like me. We both have the same "say". 

 

I don't get your point whatsoever. If owning property meant making your own hunting rules, then a lot more "yuppies" would come upstate and buy a ton of land and do whatever the hell they want.  Be careful what you wish for.

 

Just remember there are tons of 1/8th acre lots worth a lot more than your 1,000 acres, which cost a lot more in taxes as well.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Biz-R-OWorld

[Doc]

So let me make sure this is perfectly clear, you are saying that anyone that opposes the inclusion of GUNS into an ARCHERY season is being elitist and selfish?

If you insist on using those terms to describe people that believe in maintaining the integrity of a bowhunting "special season" then you are forcing that conclusion aren't you? Personally I think you have mis-characterized the NYB defense of the bow season integrity and applied some arbitrary and wrong terms as a result of your little tantrum against the NYB. And all that is based simply on a difference of opinion.

 

I mean I assume from what you have said that once the crossbows have been jammed into bowseason, you have no problem with slamming the door again and joining the NYB with excluding certain hunters and weapons. So now what does that make you? Remember you have called that elitist and selfish haven't you? And also remember that I have not. To me I regard that kind of behavior as safeguarding the integrity of bowseason. But then, I am not the one that has tried to assign negative terms to anyone who does that.

 

It's not really all that unclear is it?

[covert]

The way i see it is if that deer stands on my 700 acres i do own it while it is there and can tell whom and to a point what that deer will be shot with!  Kinda like its mine for today and may be yours in the morning!

Yeah well your deer are YOUR DEER.  

 

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.  Maybe it'll give us something different to fight about for awhile.

Edited March 25, 2013 by covert

[Doc]

Regardless of who's property it's on it belongs to all of us.  However, you have the right to kill that animal if you follow all the rules set by the state.  If we all set our own rules for the deer on our land it would be chaos.  

You know, I already have the legal right to dictate what weapons that will be used on my land. For example if I decide to make my land a no-crossbow property, I absolutely can do that. And I can enforce it too by kicking anyone's butt off the property that doesn't want to abide by my rules. The way it works is that I cannot set rules that are more liberal than the state sets, but I sure as hell can set rules on my property that are more restrictive.

 

I can set more restrictive rules on my property regarding bag limits, size limits, hell I can even set up ARs if I want....lol. I can tell you where to hunt and how to hunt, when to hunt and even what to hunt as long as I do not exceed what the state dictates. This is my little kingdom, and I set the rules ..... ha-ha-ha.

[nyantler]

Leadership is a huge factor - rotating from pretty much the same pool

 

On the membership dropped to 2000 from 4000 in the 90's while recruiting 100's new each year.

From the website history, info from the inside and experience.

I was a member in the 90's... the internal misuse of the groups funds was one of the reasons I left and I'm sure it had a lot to do with the quick drop off of some of the membership... I caught them in some wrong doings and confronted them about it... didn't seem to be of any concern to them...some of the corrupt officers back then are still at the top of the heap of the organization... I don't know and really don't care if the shananagins is still going on today, but, like you, I witnessed it first hand and will never be a member again because of it. 

[verminater71]

Who is forcing you to own 1,000 acres?

Who is forcing you to provide food and cover for animals?

 

If you don't like paying taxes on 1,000 acres, try selling your property.

If you dont like providing food and cover for animals on your property, then don't do anything. Nobody will care.

 

You buy your hunting license ever year just like me. We both have the same "say". 

 

WOW you are a IDIOT

 

 

I don't get your point whatsoever. If owning property meant making your own hunting rules, then a lot more "yuppies" would come upstate and buy a ton of land and do whatever the hell they want.  Be careful what you wish for.

 

thought city folk were afraid to get there hands dirty.....Yuppies need guides

 

country boys just know how to hunt

 

Just remember there are tons of 1/8th acre lots worth a lot more than your 1,000 acres, which cost a lot more in taxes as well.

 

we get it, you got money....use it to buy a clue

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Regardless of who's property it's on it belongs to all of us.  However, you have the right to kill that animal if you follow all the rules set by the state.  If we all set our own rules for the deer on our land it would be chaos.  

 

I do set the rules for the deer on my land.  If its hunting season i say who hunts him.When and if someone hunts him and what they hunt him with.  If a deer never leaves a piece of private then i would say that landowner has say what happens to that deer.  You can say they dont own him but nobody can touch him while on that land. Soooooooo

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Yeah well your deer are YOUR DEER.  

 

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.  Maybe it'll give us something different to fight about for awhile.

 

Good point but i can set the season on the inside. On the outside i can do everything but set the season. lol

[WNYBuckHunter]

If you insist on using those terms to describe people that believe in maintaining the integrity of a bowhunting "special season" then you are forcing that conclusion aren't you? Personally I think you have mis-characterized the NYB defense of the bow season integrity and applied some arbitrary and wrong terms as a result of your little tantrum against the NYB. And all that is based simply on a difference of opinion.

I mean I assume from what you have said that once the crossbows have been jammed into bowseason, you have no problem with slamming the door again and joining the NYB with excluding certain hunters and weapons. So now what does that make you? Remember you have called that elitist and selfish haven't you? And also remember that I have not. To me I regard that kind of behavior as safeguarding the integrity of bowseason. But then, I am not the one that has tried to assign negative terms to anyone who does that.

It's not really all that unclear is it?

See, this is where your argument falls flat on its face. You make a statement, and when asked to clarify, you back peddle. Why dont you answer the question wit a simple yes or no?

The funny thing is, the only group in this discussion trying to open the door for guns into archery season is in fact, the NYB with their support of an early muzzle loader season. Us crossbow guys just want the other piece of archery equipment added. Youd think that a bowhunting organization would rather have another bow included rather than let guns into the season.

There are plenty of good reasons for the archery and gun seasons to be separate, Im sure you and most others would agree on that. I have yet to hear an argument against crossbows other than the lie that they are guns and not archery equipment, and that some people think it will turn bow season into a similar experience to gun season. Both of those arguments are pretty easily shot down with simple definitions and data from other states.