Let's throw some gas on the fire - MI Report

[d-bone20917]

I do set the rules for the deer on my land.  If its hunting season i say who hunts him.When and if someone hunts him and what they hunt him with.  If a deer never leaves a piece of private then i would say that landowner has say what happens to that deer.  You can say they dont own him but nobody can touch him while on that land. Soooooooo

 

Setting rules on your land that are within the bounds of the game laws is completely different then saying you own the deer that are on your land.  But I think you know that.  The game animals are in the public trust and we all share in that responsibility.  So you can set whatever rules you want on your property, but once he wanders across the property boundary that land owner will have their own set of rules.     

[Doc]

See, this is where your argument falls flat on its face. You make a statement, and when asked to clarify, you back peddle. Why dont you answer the question wit a simple yes or no?

The funny thing is, the only group in this discussion trying to open the door for guns into archery season is in fact, the NYB with their support of an early muzzle loader season. Us crossbow guys just want the other piece of archery equipment added. Youd think that a bowhunting organization would rather have another bow included rather than let guns into the season.

There are plenty of good reasons for the archery and gun seasons to be separate, Im sure you and most others would agree on that. I have yet to hear an argument against crossbows other than the lie that they are guns and not archery equipment, and that some people think it will turn bow season into a similar experience to gun season. Both of those arguments are pretty easily shot down with simple definitions and data from other states.

First off, I am sorry that you have problems with answers that exceed one word. But, I think if you really try real hard, you will see that there is no back-peddling ..... on my part. I know you are smarter than you are acting. By the way, my answer to your question has not changed overnight, but because of your obvious comprehension problem, I will repeat it. The answer is: yes according to your definition of what constitutes elitism and selfishness, and no from me because I reject your definition and the way you are apply those terms. Now that's exactly the same answer that I gave above, but maybe reading it for a second time, you may actually eventually get it. I think I have probably repeated that enough times for an average person to understand. Please don't continue the confusion act any more. It is getting old.

 

As far as fighting the whole difference of opinion about the crossbow thing all over again, I invite you to research the volumes that have already been typed on that subject to get yourself back up to date. It will save us all a lot of time.

[Five Seasons]

Anyone that wants to be successful at crossbow hunting will need to take it just as seriously as guys hunting with a compound. The only part they will be able to be a tad less vigilant with is their actual shooting practice, and IMO, thats not that bad of a thing.

 

It's the same old arguments, but the distance a crossbow will shoot and the fact i can set my crossbow on a bipod and not have to draw the string back also makes a bow hunter's job more difficult. Getting the deer in under 30. Knowing when to draw when he's in that close etc.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Belo

[Five Seasons]

WOW you are a IDIOT

nothing funnier than calling someone AN idiot and writing below a 4th grade level.

[WNYBuckHunter]

First off, I am sorry that you have problems with answers that exceed one word. But, I think if you really try real hard, you will see that there is no back-peddling ..... on my part. I know you are smarter than you are acting. By the way, my answer to your question has not changed overnight, but because of your obvious comprehension problem, I will repeat it. The answer is: yes according to your definition of what constitutes elitism and selfishness, and no from me because I reject your definition and the way you are apply those terms. Now that's exactly the same answer that I gave above, but maybe reading it for a second time, you may actually eventually get it. I think I have probably repeated that enough times for an average person to understand. Please don't continue the confusion act any more. It is getting old.

 

As far as fighting the whole difference of opinion about the crossbow thing all over again, I invite you to research the volumes that have already been typed on that subject to get yourself back up to date. It will save us all a lot of time.

 

Thanks for the straight answer. As I had said, I was looking to make it 100% completely clear with a simple, clear, takes less than 5 minutes to read through answer, thats all.

[WNYBuckHunter]

It's the same old arguments, but the distance a crossbow will shoot and the fact i can set my crossbow on a bipod and not have to draw the string back also makes a bow hunter's job more difficult. Getting the deer in under 30. Knowing when to draw when he's in that close etc.

 

You can get bipods and other stabilization devices for a vertical bow, and with practice, vertical bows are capable of the same range as a crossbow is. In a hunting situation, the effective range of a crossbow is no greater than that of a compound. Ask people that ACTUALLY hunt with them, not some ding dong on YouTube sitting at a shooting bench at a range under controlled conditions.

 

Look, Im not saying that a crossbow isnt a little easier to use than a vertical bow. Quite the contrary, I just touted that fact a few posts ago and pointed out a couple of the benefits of it. Ive actually said that all along. It still doesnt change the fact that stand placement, stand entry, scent control, attention to the wind, etc etc etc will still have to apply to a crossbow hunter just like it does to any other archery hunter.

 

And yes, its the same argument, time hasnt diminished the validity of it.

[Doc]

Thanks for the straight answer. As I had said, I was looking to make it 100% completely clear with a simple, clear, takes less than 5 minutes to read through answer, thats all.

You're welcome.

[fasteddie]

[nyantler]

It's the same old arguments, but the distance a crossbow will shoot and the fact i can set my crossbow on a bipod and not have to draw the string back also makes a bow hunter's job more difficult. Getting the deer in under 30. Knowing when to draw when he's in that close etc.

The ease of which you can shoot a crossbow does not change the way that it kills the animal.. and gives no more advantage than a compound has over a recurve or a longbow with its 80% let off. Aside from it's assault weapon like appearance and better ergonomics the crossbow performs the same in how it kills as every other bow on the market... with the kill range being not much different again than the comparison between compound and traditional equipment.

 

If the criteria for not allowing a weapon into any season was it's ease of operation vs. other like weapons... inline muzzleloaders would have never made it into (or better yet, taken over) the "primitive" muzzloader season.

[Five Seasons]

if that's what you believe Antler, that's fine. We will continue to disagree. We've all made our cases. I will yawn with fast eddie unless someone throws some more interesting gas on this fire.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Belo

[BizCT]

WOW you are a IDIOT

 

 

 

thought city folk were afraid to get there hands dirty.....Yuppies need guides

 

country boys just know how to hunt

 

 

we get it, you got money....use it to buy a clue

I stated the facts, but I'm an idiot? What a great response.

 

I don't live in the city. I never hunted with a guide in NY. What makes you a better hunter than me? I'm sure I can sit just as still as you, handle the cold just like you, and shoot just as accurate as you.

 

I never said I own an 1/8 acre that is worth more than your 1,000 acres. I am just saying that they do exist, so don't complain about your taxes and that your tax bill gives you more rights than others.

 

You want to make bold statements, you will get called out on them. At least respond with some maturity.

[nyantler]

if that's what you believe Antler, that's fine. We will continue to disagree. We've all made our cases. I will yawn with fast eddie unless someone throws some more interesting gas on this fire.

Its not what I believe.. it is the way it is... tell me how the makeup of a crossbow kills any differently than a compound or a trad bow. it's still just an arrow that must hit a vital on the deer... that part doesn't change just because the crossbow is already drawn, has a scope, a stock or any other feature. Please tell me how it kills any differently so I can understand... easier doesn't always equate to better. At the end of the day its nothing more than an arrow propelled by a string just like any other bow.

Edited March 27, 2013 by nyantler

[WNYBuckHunter]

Come on Joe, stop bullying them with common sense

[sits in trees]

Well here we are again with another 300 plus pages of the same old tire thing we have had dozens of times before, name calling, insults, what organizations are evil or truly righteous to the cause, who the true hunters really are, and then the landowners chime in with what their rights should be, and then come the ole reliable recurve and longbow guys telling their tales of yore. Its like watching the same parade year after year.

Yea some of the faces have changed or not, but the argument stays exactly the same and keeps the chasm between hunters wider than ever.

I know what i desire and to me thats personal and no matter what anyone on any forum has to say will sway that opinion, and on the same token I would never tell anyone else how they should hunt. This is not a team sport or one played in a court or park where people can watch and judge, our sport is an individuals sport, i'll go as far as to say a loners or recluses sport that is done alone, by yourself, you and your thoughts and the only one who can truly govern is that lone indivdual, no judges, no umpires, no refs or fans. This old argument will be decided by people who are alot bigger n more powerfull than us anyway.

[Doc]

Well here we are again with another 300 plus pages of the same old tire thing we have had dozens of times before, name calling, insults, what organizations are evil or truly righteous to the cause, who the true hunters really are, and then the landowners chime in with what their rights should be, and then come the ole reliable recurve and longbow guys telling their tales of yore. Its like watching the same parade year after year.

Yea some of the faces have changed or not, but the argument stays exactly the same and keeps the chasm between hunters wider than ever.

I know what i desire and to me thats personal and no matter what anyone on any forum has to say will sway that opinion, and on the same token I would never tell anyone else how they should hunt. This is not a team sport or one played in a court or park where people can watch and judge, our sport is an individuals sport, i'll go as far as to say a loners or recluses sport that is done alone, by yourself, you and your thoughts and the only one who can truly govern is that lone indivdual, no judges, no umpires, no refs or fans. This old argument will be decided by people who are alot bigger n more powerfull than us anyway.

Yes, it seems that we must go through these summer re-runs every year .... lol. It is a subject that never seems to lose popularity on hunting forums. But the same old rehashing of points does get a bit tiresome. The whole subject could easily continue by simply using the cut and paste function from the very first years of the debate.

[sits in trees]

Yes, it seems that we must go through these summer re-runs every year .... lol. It is a subject that never seems to lose popularity on hunting forums. But the same old rehashing of points does get a bit tiresome. The whole subject could easily continue by simply using the cut and paste function from the very first years of the debate.

Hey Doc, they should start a new section on this forum called the "copy n paste" section, lol...

[nyantler]

Its funny how some of you start to get bored all of a sudden... just about the time you can no longer come up with a rational defense for your position on a topic and shortly after the name calling begins...

[phade]

People are delusional sometimes.

 

Seems like some are so petty they cannot agree to disagree, and if the other's view is opposite or not aligned...they are wrong.

 

Doc an I see eye to eye on about 25% of the topics that come up but even in the end we usually just agree to disagree and leave it be. Seems like some just can't do that. Goes a long way in showing character imo.

Edited March 27, 2013 by phade

[Doc]

Its funny how some of you start to get bored all of a sudden... just about the time you can no longer come up with a rational defense for your position on a topic and shortly after the name calling begins...

No antler, it just seems to be getting kind of stupid to be saying the same things over and over just trying to piss people off. I mean seriously, don't you ever get tired of just trolling to irritate people. It's one thing to say that stuff once if it is a truely held opinion, you might even be tempted to say it twice, but when you are into your 3rd or 4th year of mouthing the same old crap over and over again, it becomes obvious that it is moving from a statement of opinion into just plain hopes of irritating others to respond and feed your flame-war. My gosh doesn't that sort of thing ever get tiresome?

 

Anybody who has been here long enough remembers how Sits and I used to go at this subject in a very unfriendly fashion (to put it mildly). But even we eventually realized that nobody's mind was being changed and it was all becoming just a bunch of rancor with no purpose. I am wondering when the rest of you are going to arrive at the same conclusion......if ever. It all is said in the title of this thread. It is simply throwing gas on the fire in hopes that some name-calling and unfriendly exchanges will erupt (otherwise known as trolling). Maybe it's time to give it a rest.

[SteveB]

Softball - can't help it.

 

 

 

It's one thing to say that stuff once if it is a truely held opinion, you might even be tempted to say it twice, but when you are into your 3rd or 4th year of mouthing the same old crap over and over again, it becomes obvious that it is moving from a statement of opinion into just plain hopes of irritating others to respond and feed your flame-war. My gosh doesn't that sort of thing ever get tiresome?

 

 

 

Unless you are tired, obviously not .

[fasteddie]

Its funny how some of you start to get bored all of a sudden... just about the time you can no longer come up with a rational defense for your position on a topic and shortly after the name calling begins...

 

I have been bored with this thread from the start . I don't support Crossbows but I don't fight against them either . 18 pages of bickering and no one has changed their mind . Yeah , I am bored . This thread will probably go on until one of the hunting seasons start up so folks will have something else to talk about . C'mon Turkey Season !

And , yes , I don't have to read this thread but will just to see who is calling who names , etc ...  

[WNYBuckHunter]

Yes, it seems that we must go through these summer re-runs every year .... lol. It is a subject that never seems to lose popularity on hunting forums. But the same old rehashing of points does get a bit tiresome. The whole subject could easily continue by simply using the cut and paste function from the very first years of the debate.

 

Yet the same guys that say its old and tiresome continue to participate every time.

[WNYBuckHunter]

And BTW, if we just ended every topic after the first 3 pages, this forum would go away. Like it or not, these spirited debates keep this place interesting, and in the 3 or so years this forum has been around, there isnt much about hunting we havent already covered, so if we started a copy and paste section, we could move 3/4 of the topics there.

[Doc]

Yet the same guys that say its old and tiresome continue to participate every time.

Sucked in by the trolls is what you should really say. Yes I did get involved with this thread when there was some negative comments about an organization that I am proud to be a member of. And you will recall that I quickly shut you down when you tried to start in with your ridiculous attempts to discuss the pieces and parts of a crossbow again for the 500th time. I will not get sucked into that kind of repetitive foolishness. We have enough important an dinteresting stuff to be discussed without having to rely on rehashing the same old stuff over and over again. 

[Doc]

And BTW, if we just ended every topic after the first 3 pages, this forum would go away. Like it or not, these spirited debates keep this place interesting, and in the 3 or so years this forum has been around, there isnt much about hunting we havent already covered, so if we started a copy and paste section, we could move 3/4 of the topics there.

And let me say that I am not into censorship. But it would be nice if people just had the good sense not to go over the same old stuff over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, year after year. We do have a lot of good current and important topics available here without dredging up arguments from 2 and 3 years ago that have already been worn out. I think that was what the "Copy and Paste" comment came from. For those that get a kick out of redundant posting, It might be handy if we had a section labled "Old Issue Rehash" that they could participate in. And yes, it would be a good place to use the copy and paste function ..... just as a timesaver......lol.