special youth firearms season

[growalot]

all bowhunters better be wearing blaze orange underwear

 

Hhhmmm I'm not usually hunting with my under wear on the out side...though..not being a guy it could be a good idea for me to have BO undies..... if mother nature calls....hahahahah

 

Other than the Ohhh yes you know it happens...not so ethical adult it won't bother me...there is so much shooting that goes on out of season around here...I doubt the sounds will bother them...and the hunting camps are in full weekend swing by then.."getting ready" ...which is why I have so much  deer movement on my place...thank you very much

[phade]

I cant believe some of the responses here.I feel this is a great thing.Most kids in a hunting family wont need a "special" season to get in the woods and get hooked,but some kids that have never had the opportunity to hunt,maybe who parents or family hunts will capitalize on this and that's what its about.This sport that we all love so much is attacked every day in our schools,news and all around and the majority of what I see here is attacking the next possible generation of hunters that will be defending OUR rights for it.Why do any of you care if a kid gets a break,I am sure the majority of us would take a rebate on a product that we buy that didn't have a rebate offered 20 years ago,so how is this different.I would have never posted this if I thought this would get turned into such a hurtful thing toward future hunters.Everyone is entitled to their opinion,but I cant see attacking the next group of hunters in line because they have a opportunity you didn't when you were up and coming.Go ahead bash me all you want but this type of thing does nothing but hurt our sport.

 

Fear mongering...attacking the next generation? Hurtful? Relax.

 

I think everyone here has been clearly 100% for the kids whether they support or don't support the special weekend. The point of debate is how best to involve kids and retain them long-term. So, slow your roll and just read where people are coming from. This thread has been one of the better behaved threads where opinions vary. Let's try to keep the discussion on that avenue. Sound good?

 

I value everyone's opinion, although mentoring holds a special place with me. My mentoring experience is probably a bit more on average than most people on this forum - and that's not being braggish, full of myself, or anything of the sort. I'm just saying it's not my first rodeo and I know what mentoring new hunters involves. It's a marathon and not a sprint. Setting up a weekend encourages "sprinting" when nothing is really done beyond that. The DEC needs to take a holistic approach. A weekend is a band aid and not a root cause solution - and we have no evidence to really support its impact either way.

 

Groups like QDMA, Kicking Bear, etc. seem to have better direction on how this should be done the right way. Now, the DEC doesn't have the same agenda; however, what it does have is control over the playing field and the rulebook, and thus can make macro changes that can better facilitate mentoring, recruitment, etc. If the "weekend" were part of a bigger plan, I don't think near as many would question it. All they did was give the weekend and then pat each other on the back for solving a problem that they didn't really solve.

Edited August 7, 2013 by phade

[MACHINIST]

last weekend of bow? that's prime time

 

 

 

Not sure I understand this? So most hunting families wont need the special season? But kids with parents who don't hunt will benefit? How will these kids get into the woods if their parents don't hunt? Why would a friend or family member who hunts not just take them with them opening day like the rest of us started?

 

no I am just saying maybe a kid who wouldn't think of trying hunting may get pulled in to try it.I am not saying that hunting families don't need this.I know I have been aproeched about taking a few kids whos parent dont hunt to take their young boys out in the woods.Sorry I didnt clarify that very well.

[MACHINIST]

Fear mongering...attacking the next generation? Hurtful? Relax.

 

I think everyone here has been clearly 100% for the kids whether they support or don't support the special weekend. The point of debate is how best to involve kids and retain them long-term. So, slow your roll and just read where people are coming from. This thread has been one of the better behaved threads where opinions vary. Let's try to keep the discussion on that avenue. Sound good?

 

I value everyone's opinion, but mentoring holds a special place with me. My mentoring experience is probably a bit more on average than most people on this forum - and that's not being braggish, full of myself, or anything of the sort. I'm just saying it's not my first rodeo and I know what mentoring new hunters involves. It's a marathon and not a sprint. Setting up a weekend encourages "sprinting" when nothing is really done beyond that. The DEC needs to take a holistic approach. A weekend is a band aid and not a root cause solution - and we have no evidence to really support its impact either way.

 

Groups like QDMA, Kicking Bear, etc. seem to have better direction on how this should be done the right way. Now, the DEC doesn't have the same agenda; however, what it does have is control over the playing field and the rulebook, and thus can make macro changes that can better facilitate mentoring, recruitment, etc. If the "weekend" were part of a bigger plan, I don't think near as many would question it. All they did was give the weekend and then pat each other on the back for solving a problem that they didn't really solve.

 

Like I said,everyone is entitled to their own op pinion.Do I feel that anyone here doesn't want new people in the woods??NO I don't.Do I feel that some here are a little butt hurt that the future kids get a "special season"??Yes I do.I have mentored a few young hunters and you are 100% correct that about the marathon/sprint analogy,but if this starts them for wanting more then it does nothing but good.Not trying to start a fight just saying what I am feeling.

[phade]

no I am just saying maybe a kid who wouldn't think of trying hunting may get pulled in to try it.I am not saying that hunting families don't need this.I know I have been aproeched about taking a few kids whos parent dont hunt to take their young boys out in the woods.Sorry I didnt clarify that very well.

 

If the family doesn't hunt, they're not going to know about the weekend. Do you follow Batavia Muckdogs baseball? If they offered free tickets, you probably wouldn't find out about it because you don't follow it. Non-hunters are not generally reading NY Outdoor News, the Outdoors section of the paper, etc. It's really not a boon to those outside the current ranks of hunter/hunter families. The DEC can yell until they are blue in the face because non-hunting families won't be subjected to the message in large.

 

The good thing is that darn near everyone in this state, save NYC area, likely knows someone who does hunt. All it takes is some conversation - either on the part of the parent or the hunter.

 

The DEC needs to push the mentoring aspect in conjuction with opening up opportunities.

[G-Man]

the biggest problem is the dec doesn't make the laws or seasons it just inforces them. they are made by out reps in Albany, (follow crossbow at all if dec could they would be used now) we don't even have a hunting season every year until it is passed by Albany(lifetime licences are really a 1 year gig once you know that) the dec needs to be freed of the poltitical rulers and them maybe they could manage and do things that everyone on here wants.. don't blame the dec ...its Albany that is the problem.

[gfdeputy2]

I value everyone's opinion, although mentoring holds a special place with me. My mentoring experience is probably a bit more on average than most people on this forum - and that's not being braggish, full of myself, or anything of the sort. I'm just saying it's not my first rodeo and I know what mentoring new hunters involves. It's a marathon and not a sprint. Setting up a weekend encourages "sprinting" when nothing is really done beyond that. The DEC needs to take a holistic approach. A weekend is a band aid and not a root cause solution - and we have no evidence to really support its impact either way.

 

Groups like QDMA, Kicking Bear, etc. seem to have better direction on how this should be done the right way. Now, the DEC doesn't have the same agenda; however, what it does have is control over the playing field and the rulebook, and thus can make macro changes that can better facilitate mentoring, recruitment, etc. If the "weekend" were part of a bigger plan, I don't think near as many would question it. All they did was give the weekend and then pat each other on the back for solving a problem that they didn't really solve.

 

 Sorry I said I was done but just needed to say: I see what Doc & you mean now

Don't know the Politics of the DEC in NY or NH but I do understand where you are coming from now

Like I said before (probably should have kept my mouth shut as I am an outsider)

& I know NY & NH are totally different states on so many levels

for NH this turned out to be an awesome program & gives kids a good opportunity to harvest a deer now it may not work in NY but for  NH where the deer population is est. @ 85,000 YES NY state Kills around 3X the amount of deer we have living in NH

I would think NH hunters would have been more upset for this reason alone

I don't know if NYDEC has public  forums or not but we do in NH & we do get a say (or at least we can speak our piece)

if they don't NYDEC should consider it.

[Five Seasons]

Biggest complaint I see here is its during bow... it would be before bow season except for the change last year to oct 1st last year in southern zone(not familiar with northern but I believe season was open then already). seem archers give up (not really cause they can hunt) 3 days and got 11 more... hmmm . pretty good trade and they still have first shot at their buck for 11 days before the youth can take their deer...lol  oh well. 5-6000 kids across the state estimated to participate and most on private land... come pare that to 150000 goose/duck hunters and 100000 or more small game hunters out there same time ..but gunshots will scare the deer? no one seems to worry about that when the week before gun starts it sounds like a battlefield with everyone sighting in guns...let alone slamming car doors, dogs and wood smoke and fire wood cutting going on that week and previous weekend...

 

lets be honest. while the new longer bow season has only 1 season in the books, i didn't enjoy much of the really early days. mosquitos, sweating, the lack of that "fall smell" in the air. And honestly, the last few weeks of October and early November is when i'm going to be using vacation days. If anything, losing that last weekend in november was more hurtful then anything.

 

no I am just saying maybe a kid who wouldn't think of trying hunting may get pulled in to try it.I am not saying that hunting families don't need this.I know I have been aproeched about taking a few kids whos parent dont hunt to take their young boys out in the woods.Sorry I didnt clarify that very well.

 

I guess I just don't see what's so "special" about it, and if someone wanted to try hunting, why the same hunter cant pull him or her in during regular season. Like phade mentioned, I think the attempt to force "quick and easy success" sends the wrong message about what hunting is really all about.

 

[phade]

the biggest problem is the dec doesn't make the laws or seasons it just inforces them. they are made by out reps in Albany, (follow crossbow at all if dec could they would be used now) we don't even have a hunting season every year until it is passed by Albany(lifetime licences are really a 1 year gig once you know that) the dec needs to be freed of the poltitical rulers and them maybe they could manage and do things that everyone on here wants.. don't blame the dec ...its Albany that is the problem.

 

 

No offense, but that's scapegoating at its finest.

 

Any time there's something that should be done, but is not, it's the old DEC standby, "We'd love to do this but our hands are tied by the legislative process."

 

It's a built-in mechanism to cover lapses in management. DEC leadership should be actively working to change any legit legislative handcuff, but I assure you they are not in large because there's no benefit to them due to the appointment process they benefit from. Still, any legislative roadblocks should be actively worked by DEC leadership. Your crossbow quotes are perfect examples of leadership weaknesses...the leaders have been quoted as saying "we support it, but it's up to the legislators to allow it." No, it's not. It's up to the DEC leaders to blow the doors open and be a change agent rather a WIIFM  (What's in it for me?) consumer.

 

The DEC however, can do things. Landowners along bank systems are provided financial reward for allowing access, and even more if trail systems are put in place. Do you see any similar programs being pushed by the DEC? How about a Mentoring/Youth program to open lands in similar fashion? Amounts financially are menial. Yet, reports are that license fees are now surplusing because of the rate increase. How about moving those funds to put their money where their supposed mouth is?

 

How about partnering with third-party background check companies to clear prospective mentors? How about a mentoring database? How about apprentice license options like other states?

 

Quality leadership doesn't stop at "No" when that's not the right answer they want to hear to drive their business forward.

 

In the end, the legislative process is more of a friend to the DEC leadership than a foe.

 

Quite frankly, they need to get off their butts and jump the legislative hurdle. But, they won't even try. Thus, it IS the DEC's fault.

 

Edit:

 

For Pete's sake, Rossi just posted this link:

http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/17649-dec-partners-workshop/

 

When was the last time you saw the DEC hold a forum on how to mentor?

 

Exactly what I am talking about, just another fine example of DEC mismanagement.

 

Ok, I am off my soapbox now, lol.

Edited August 7, 2013 by phade

[G-Man]

Well when your legislators are taking email and input from other groups and not listening to DEC biologists and employees, (votes are more important to them than a gov agency employee that they can replace by appointment.) Moneys air allocated for certain programs by laws, not by how DEC wants of would see fit. Or crossbow would be in. Yes more programs are needed but again funding mandates come from laws the Dec doesn't have it own separate fund to do habitat management or youth programs. It get conservation fund and general dollars. Not only to monitor game but soil air and water, it is not a separate game commission and due to the laws its hands are tied in what it can and can't do, like why in some counties there is no youth hunt. (Local county law forbids it) its not an excuse its fact...

[First-light]

Just wanted to post this up in case there were any 14-15 years old kiddo's out there wanting to get out early for some deer action!This is a very good thing in my eyes because it gets kids hooked on the sport when the weather is nice and deer are pretty active.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/46245.html

 

I think its a good thing to have in place. We bow hunted last year on that weekend. Didn't hear any shots. We did see two huge shooters crossing my fields in the am hours. My daughter turns 14 next year I know where she will be sitting!  

[phade]

Well when your legislators are taking email and input from other groups and not listening to DEC biologists and employees, (votes are more important to them than a gov agency employee that they can replace by appointment.) Moneys air allocated for certain programs by laws, not by how DEC wants of would see fit. Or crossbow would be in. Yes more programs are needed but again funding mandates come from laws the Dec doesn't have it own separate fund to do habitat management or youth programs. It get conservation fund and general dollars. Not only to monitor game but soil air and water, it is not a separate game commission and due to the laws its hands are tied in what it can and can't do, like why in some counties there is no youth hunt. (Local county law forbids it) its not an excuse its fact...

 

I understand how our systems work very well. What I am saying is that the DEC is not doing what it should be to change the process for the better and that's leadership's fault.

 

The things it can do, ie allocation programs under its wing such as bank systems, it simply isnt. Do you see a program or a field day on how to mentor? That weekend is coming up. They don't need legislative permission for things like that. Nor in partnering with landowners. Quite simply, they're the ones dropping the ball here (and hunters, too).

[Doc]

I think its a good thing to have in place. We bow hunted last year on that weekend. Didn't hear any shots. We did see two huge shooters crossing my fields in the am hours. My daughter turns 14 next year I know where she will be sitting!  

Doesn't anyone wonder why they weren't hearing any shots? Is that really good news?

[Arrow Flinger]

Doesn't anyone wonder why they weren't hearing any shots? Is that really good news?

 

I think the longer they do this, the more participation it will receive.

[jjb4900]

the youth hunt didn't get the green light until the last minute the first year...this year will be more of a gauge as to it's popularity.