Rem 700 investigation

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I know people that work there. I grew up next to there. They are just like any company...anyone in the know can't speak to media...sure the guy running a lathe may have an opinion but like many manufacturing operations they are probably bound by confidentiality agreements. Let me ask you guys this. Many manufactures of the old hammer firearms....before the falling block safety was implemented...like the pre64 model 94 winchester.....a wrap on the hammer would discharge...should those manufacturers recall...or be forced to recall? Not really on topic...but how far is too far?

[WNYBuckHunter]

WNY....I was actually thinking more about an analogy with the cars brakes.....run them to the studs.....do the work yourself without the proper knowledge...they give way in a hard braking situation....must be the car manufacturers fault....bottom line...rule #1. ALWAYS keep your barrel piinted in a safe direction.

Yep, also a good analogy.

I notice that the report from the military is still nowhere to be found. 

[reeltime]

I have some personal experience with this issue.

back in the late 90's early 2000's  while deer hunting in Pa. a fella I worked with used

to go to camp with me to deer hunt.  he had m700  .243 ,  we were done with a little 1

man deer push we were standing at the truck and when he released the safety the gun

discharged! scared the crap outa him and me! I turned around and he was white as a

ghost! He said all I did was push the safety off to unload the gun and it went off.

I took the gun, cycled another round into the chamber, put the safety back on and

obviously with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction I pushed the safety off and the

gun discharged again! I told him that gun goes back to camp and you get your

backup gun! I told him that night that that .243 does not ever come back to camp

until I see a repair receipt for it!

2 months later I see in one of my outdoor magazines a recall by Remington for model

700's from serial # XXXXXXX to # XXXXXXXXX for firing when the safety is pushed off

to unload it.  I took the magazine to work and he called them, he came down to my

office and said "they told me my gun isn't in their serial number range and that they

wouldn't cover it!" I could not believe my ears!  I then called them and talked to the

customer services person, got the same story, so I asked to speak to his manager.

He said he was a manager but who really knows? I gave him the serial # on the gun

and he told me the same thing, I am sorry but your serial # falls outside our recall

scope so if you feel there is a problem you will have to take it to your local gunsmith

and have the firearm looked at and repaired...

I couldn't believe it! I said this makes no sense and is very troublesome to be talking

to the manufacturer of a firearm WITH an open recall on a specific model of firearm

with a specific problem, one of which I have and is doing EXACTLY what the recall is

for and its "outside YOUR serial # range" and you WON'T cover this extremely

dangerous issue????  Did you ever think that MAYBE you should expand your serial

# range because obviously this issue goes back further or ahead further than what

you think! No matter WHAT your serial # range is this gun is doing exactly what YOUR

recall says they can potentially do!! I get the "I'm sorry sir its not in the range so you

will have to take it to a gunsmith and have it checked"  My closing remark was I

personally will NEVER buy another Remington product, nor can I in good conscience

ever recommend to anyone a Remington product IF you will not stand behind such a

dangerous safety issue! and to this day I have not purchased or recommended a

Remington product including their ammunition!

Frank did take the gun to a gunsmith and even though the gun was basically new they

replaced the trigger assembly ( BTW the gunsmith tested the gun and it discharged

for him also)

Just food for thought, I have seen many articles written on this issue and read the

news reports, the troubling thing is remingtons response of basically we have no

knowledge of this issue, if it wasn't an issue why did you have a recall on it a number

of years ago?????

[Mr VJP]

People,

There is a design defect with  the Walker trigger.  Remington is well aware of it.  They have chosen  to settle lawsuits rather than recall all of the guns because it is  less costly to do so.  They fall back on the unsafe handling charge to  limit the settlements.  Some people have been killed because of that.  Those were cases of pointing the rifle in an unsafe direction when  loaded, but there is no evidence any of the shooters touched the  trigger.

Many Remington 700 rifles have discharged without  touching the trigger when the safety was pushed, the bolt was closed,  or the bolt was opened.  It actually happened to me while taking the  safety off on the range with the rifle pointed at the target.  I was no  where near the trigger for sure, as I was using the thumb and trigger  finger on my right hand to take it off!

This has also been  documented, on video in many cases, by Police and Military units as  well.  In the majority of trigger incidents, unless someone has been  injured, the issue has not been documented or addressed.  It happens  more often than reported and responsible gun handling has prevented  accidents, but there is a problem and Remington knows it.

I love the rifle and own one still, but the trigger has been replaced.

[bpb]

This was a hot topic some years back. It appears someone is not happy with Remington's latest contract to supply new rifles to the troops.

I've shot military Remington's and never had a problem. I have one now and no problems.

Then again I don't play with the safety or trigger & a round in the chamber either. 

Most of the problems stemmed from a modified trigger and dirty rifles. If you've seen some of the firearms I have you be shocked.  I'm not saying a trigger or safety may fail now and then, BUT I find its operator error more than mechanical.

Oddly enough how many rifles did Remington get to actually test that the report was about?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Reeltime----I am curious about what you said. you took off the safety to unload the gun?

I have 2 700's and owned 2 before those. On my guns you just lifted the bolt to unload and never touched the safety. The safety stayed engaged throughout the entire unloading process. Why would you take the safety off?

[reeltime]

on both of Franks model 700's the safety has to be moved to the fire position to open

the bolt.  The bolt will not open at all when the safety is on.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

on both of Franks model 700's the safety has to be moved to the fire position to open

the bolt.  The bolt will not open at all when the safety is on.

How old was the gun?

[reeltime]

I am not sure, i know he had them for a while prior to the 94, 95 season, they are

basically brand new guns as he hunts very little with them, and now that he is sick

he will probably not be hunting much with them anymore.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Having to take the safety off to unload seems like a pretty crappy design. Like I said ...the 4 I have owned didn't work that way

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I have a weatherby vanguard 300mag that does the same thing.If you dont unload from the bottom you have to take the saftey off in order to work the bolt!!!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I have a weatherby vanguard 300mag that does the same thing.If you dont unload from the bottom you have to take the saftey off in order to work the bolt!!!

So, the round in the chamber can not be removed unless the safety is put in the off position?

[steve863]

A number of guns still lock the bolt when the safety is on.  I know the older Ruger's and Remington's used to be that way, but now the Ruger has a 3 position safety like the Winchester and Remington no longer locks the bolt with the safety on.  I know Browining A-bolts at least the older models lock the bolt also, along with Sako rifles.  My Remington 700 which I bought new back in 1985 does not lock the bolt, so it's been a good while since Remington revamped things.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

A number of guns still lock the bolt when the safety is on.  I know the older Ruger's and Remington's used to be that way, but now the Ruger has a 3 position safety like the Winchester and Remington no longer locks the bolt with the safety on.  I know Browining A-bolts at least the older models lock the bolt also, along with Sako rifles.  My Remington 700 which I bought new back in 1985 does not lock the bolt, so it's been a good while since Remington revamped things.

Good info. If I look at a new gun that will really be on my AVOID list for features.

[steve863]

I guess the only advantage to having the bolt locked while the safety is on is that you won't have the bolt accidently snagged open by foliage and have the chambered cartridge dumped on the ground.  I HAVE had this happen to me.  I guess it's a small inconvenience for an added measure of safety.

[Bballhunter11]

I also have a older model 700 in 222 mag. that you cannot open the bolt with the safety engaged i never really understood why they made it like this

[Elmo]

What's the general feedback on the newer X-Mark trigger?  I've had my heart set on the 700 SPS Varmint or the VTR but I will absolutely not carry a rifle that has a reputation of inadvertant discharge.

[Doewhacker]

A number of guns still lock the bolt when the safety is on.  I know the older Ruger's and Remington's used to be that way, but now the Ruger has a 3 position safety like the Winchester and Remington no longer locks the bolt with the safety on.  I know Browining A-bolts at least the older models lock the bolt also, along with Sako rifles.  My Remington 700 which I bought new back in 1985 does not lock the bolt, so it's been a good while since Remington revamped things.

My brothers Remington has one of them bolts that slides open, and I have a newer A-bolt that has the safety lock. His opened this year while we were dragging one out and I had a good time picking on him about it, I told him it was time to buy a Browning and use his gun as a door stop. I don't think he will listen though.

Do you guys know of a way to stop his bolt from sliding open?

[steve863]

What's the general feedback on the newer X-Mark trigger?  I've had my heart set on the 700 SPS Varmint or the VTR but I will absolutely not carry a rifle that has a reputation of inadvertant discharge.

I think you need not worry about any of this.  Go out and buy it.

[steve863]

Do you guys know of a way to stop his bolt from sliding open?

Unless he sends it back to Remington or takes it to a gunsmith to have the trigger/safety changed or modified, I don't know of a way.

[Doewhacker]

That was what we had determined too, I am glad he's not the only one it has happened to.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

My brothers Remington has one of them bolts that slides open, and I have a newer A-bolt that has the safety lock. His opened this year while we were dragging one out and I had a good time picking on him about it, I told him it was time to buy a Browning and use his gun as a door stop. I don't think he will listen though.

Do you guys know of a way to stop his bolt from sliding open?

Yup....don't bang it on $hit...lol. I have never had it slide open on me by mistake. I let a buddy carry it when we were back in the ADK's and he lost 5 of my rounds over the weekend. He is a "shoulder carrier". Must have had it hit brush while walking. To me...I am a "cradle carrier", that branck that opened the bolt could have just as easily hit the safety.

My personal opinion but I like my gun in my hands...they are too hard to aim mounted on your back...lol

[steve863]

I myself don't see it being a big deal having to flip the gun off safe to open the bolt.  One should always point the gun in a safe direction either way, so having the bolt lock on safe will probably save you a few lost cartridges along the way if you hunt with it long enough.

[Doewhacker]

Yea, we are arm carriers too, it happened while we were dragging the one out so it must have jostled loose. I think I told him to just leave it home and it won't do it again, ha! Secretly I want his gun cause its perty, its got the High gloss gray finish and silver barrell. Too bad its a back wards right hand gun.

Maybe I should just walk a little behind him so I can pick up his lost cartriges, we both have 7mm...I like that idea cause I'm cheap.

[the blur]

http://www.pressherald.com/news/craig-faulty-rif-les-taken-out-of-police-service_2010-10-28.html