Estimated Wild Turkey Harvest Reports NY

[Grouse]

With the ongoing concerns about the observable decline of wild turkey populations in the great Empire State, it is a timely exercise to take a look at the estimated harvest numbers. 

Estimated Wild Turkey Harvest Reports NY - Turkey Talk Blog (turkey-talk.com)

[ridgerunner88]

Has this trend of fall turkeys being overharvested continued to present day? What do you recommend as a policy to address this issue? Turn off fall turkey hunting for a few years?

I love spring gobbler and hope the DEC can ensure it remains a viable option in our state for years to come.

[Skillet]

36 minutes ago, blackbeltbill said:

It has already been addressed back in 2015 by the DEC in Zones 3+ 4.

   A 6 Week Fall Turkey Season that began on October  1st with everything else was moved more then 2 Weeks back to- October 15th- this year.

 The 2 Turkey Limit Cut to 1 Fall Bird in Zones 3 +4. Western,NY already had a 1 Fall Bird Limit before 2015.

 And the 6 Week Fall Turkey Season was cut back to 2 Weeks.

 At the same time Period- 2015- Bow Deer Hunters were given an extra 2 Weeks and their Season was pushed back from mid October to October 1st.

Basically a Switch was implemented back in 2015.

 Nothing else needs to be done. Not many hardcore Fall Turkey Hunters in New York.

 Probably  many of the Fall Harvest is by Bow Deer Hunters when they get Lucky and a Flock walks under their stand.

If the changes made in 2015 were sufficient, we would have seen a rebound in turkeys by now. 

It's no secret that numbers are way down across much of NY. I'm not saying there aren't areas with healthy flocks, but many of us are experiencing low or non-existent bird numbers.

Fewer birds in fields, fewer birds on camera, harvests are way down. Not sure what other proof is needed. 

I don't believe turkey have simply learned to be quiet. Maybe on heavily pressured public land, but not as a whole.

The sign just isn't there anymore. The May mornings are much quieter.

The few hens I have seen this year, rarely have any poults.

I think high predator numbers are heavily to blame, along with a poor nesting season or two recently.

Not many are trapping anymore. Fishers are out of control at my place, along with coon, and fox. 

I think elimination of fall hunting, and a one bird spring limit would be beneficial, but only slow the demise of the turkey. 

Eventually, I bet they will be like grouse are across much of the state now. You see or hear them once in awhile, and miss the "old days" when they were seemingly everywhere. 

I'm probably wrong though. 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Skillet

[Skillet]

4 minutes ago, blackbeltbill said:

I don't  agree with 100% of your points above.

 Not many Fall Turkeys are killed in New York in recent years. Leave the Fall Season alone from further Slashes...

 Leave the Spring Season Limit at 2 Birds. 

  

  

  

I respectfully disagree, Bill.

It seems strange to me to allow hens to be shot at all. That hen, if she survived winter, would likely have a clutch the next spring.

Killing her eliminates any chance of her ever contributing to the population.

Why do we need a two bird spring limit?

Nobody fills their freezer with wild turkey to offset grocery bills. We hunt them because we love to hunt them. Yes, they are good to eat, but that's just a bonus.

Killing two birds just because you have two tags, doesn't make it smart, or a big achievement to brag about.

It's like the guys who fill all their doe tags, just because they can, then whine about seeing less and less deer every year. 

NYSDEC is about as trustworthy as the national enquirer, when it comes to sound game management.

Enjoy your hunt. Kill one spring gobbler, and move on to helping others get theirs.

Like I said earlier though, I don't even think either of those changes would really help long term. 

Anyway, I have great respect for your knowledge and the research you have done on turkeys, Bill.

It's obvious that you are passionate about them. I just hope they are there for us to enjoy in ten years.

 

[mattypotpie8S]

1 hour ago, blackbeltbill said:

 

Not many Fall Turkeys are killed in New York in recent years.

  

  

  

Because there are less of them

[Skillet]

4 hours ago, blackbeltbill said:

In my County- ( Orange)- there are too Many Hens. Hence- no problem  with taking one if the opportunity  arises.

   Be careful about wishing for a 1 Tom Spring Limit... That is not the answer at this time...

  Most Spring Turkey Hunters never fill their States Bag Limit. There are hordes of Hunters Nationwide who are stuck at less then 10 Toms even after 12+ years of Hunting them. 

 Ohio Spring Turkey Hunters right now are furious at officials  for lowering the Spring Bag to 1 Tom.

 Once taken away- it will never be restored... 

  You need to understand  that Spring Gobblers " especially  on Public" require an extensive  Knowledge  of Woodsmanship  and Calling Skills to Kill. And to be Honest- many can go for years on end without killing a Spring Gobbler.

 Keep the Spring take at 2...

  

How does an area have too many hens? Are they causing severe crop damage or something? Too many turkey-car accidents? A grasshopper shortage?

I'm aware turkey are not easy to kill, "especially on public". 

No doubt taking turkeys requires a good set of skills. Another big part of being such and "extensively knowledgeable woodsman" such as yourself, should involve self restraint where needed. 

I have had my share of two bird springs, but I wouldn't do it now. If someone chooses to, that's their legal right. 

You need to understand that bird numbers are undeniably way down across much of NY, and just because you can do something, may not always make it the right thing to do.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Skillet

[G-Man]

Here is problem with the data.. its estimated. 

Fall take would exceed spring take  hens are allowed. Again insuffient data.  How many of the take are young of the year birds? Those are most likely to be winter kill anyway. 

Predators and farming practices  are ignored in all data.  The rise of hawks and owls along with decrease of tall grass fields as ethanol production pulled many fallow fields back into production. New farming practices of silage cutting  earlier and more often due to taxes on storage and labor cost for bale hay production. 

Habitat change.. woods that were intermediate or young in the 90s are now mature as people dont cut trees as its bad. Or refuse to cut mast bearing trees at all.  

Its a complicated issue but i know  by putting effort into habitat and predator control my local birds are increasing in number.

A few issues Not to mention the issue with cold wet springs on nest and poult survival. 

[Skillet]

Ok Bill. Disagree.

[Skillet]

11 hours ago, blackbeltbill said:

No Problem- most here also disagree with me. 

 I do have more Knowledge  on this particular  subject then most

 

Based upon your research? Years of experience? A degree?

Nobody's doubting that you are an expert turkey hunter.

What I am doubting is that you really know much about conservation or management.

I don't either. I don't have the answers. I'm not an expert, and not silly enough to claim to be.

Anyone without blinders on can tell that the population across the state isn't healthy.

I threw a couple of ideas out that I thought would help, but all I see from you is demanding that spring limit stays at two, and nobody touches your fall season. 

How would you address poor nesting seasons? High predator numbers? Detrimental changes in farming practices?

I'd like to know how you personally, suggest NY helps turkey numbers recover. 

And before you point to your supplemental feeding again, surely you know that while legal in NY (as long as it does not attract any deer or bear), feeding of wild turkeys is not recommended.

 

[Lawdwaz]

12 hours ago, blackbeltbill said:

waste free   For those members + Guests who want to take just 1 Spring Gobbler- just stop Hunting after you get your Tom. Don't  use the other Tag.

   Others may choose not to spend the 10 Bucks when they buy their Hunting License to include the 3 Spring + Fall Turkey Tags. You do have a Choice...

  But don't  push for a 1 Spring Turkey Limit. Right now I repeat-- that is not the answer...

   In case hunters have not noticed- plenty of experienced Turkey Hunters are only able to take just 1 Gobbler anyway.  Plenty of them are also failing to Bag even that 1 Tom.

  I only took 1 Gobbler this past Spring. Same the Spring of 2021 also. And 2020 as well. Those are the 3 Springs that,I focused on Cynthia  here.

  If you want to help out with Wild Turkeys- you can do what,I have done for the past 10 years now. Supplemental  Feeding especially  in the Winter.

  Last Winter,I had 29 Wild Turkeys that I took care of. I have a unique  situation  being the last House on a Deadend Road with a big block of Hardwoods, Sewer Line that,I myself mow every 3 weeks,creek and long closed down 1/2 mile Horsetrack that the Town Mows every 3 years or so. No Hunting in this whole area.

 These Turkeys travel to nearby Bald Hill and the huge block of open Hardwoods there as well during parts of the year. Some come back-- others go their way. No Hunting there either.

  The Best Brand of Birdseed,I have found that the Wild Turkeys go for is-- KAYTEE-waste free. A little more expensive.  5lb bag goes for around 8 bucks. Plenty of Sunflower seeds in this brand.

 Currently, I have 1 Gobbler,2 Hens, + 1 Hen with 2 poults that,I feed twice a day. I walk right out there with them wearing an orange  hat. Always an Orange hat.

 

 

And what is the significance of the orange hat Dr Dolittle?

[Five Seasons]

On 8/24/2022 at 6:23 AM, G-Man said:

Predators and farming practices  are ignored in all data.  The rise of hawks and owls along with decrease of tall grass fields as ethanol production pulled many fallow fields back into production. New farming practices of silage cutting  earlier and more often due to taxes on storage and labor cost for bale hay production. 

Habitat change.. woods that were intermediate or young in the 90s are now mature as people dont cut trees as its bad. Or refuse to cut mast bearing trees at all.  

this is what I came here to say. You don't have to be a biologist to drive down the road and see that once fallow field is now a housing development. You don't need to be a biologist to see the old overgrown vineyard or field is now a corn field. I don't know if I believe predator increase is as substantial as some think (there is all sorts of data out there about wolves and elk that don't line up with the publics opinion on predator impact), but I do firmly believe that habitat loss is a huge factor. I listened to an actual biologist from the NWTF talk about the fact that 1 in 6 eggs actually hatch. Then 1 in 6 polts make it the first month, then from there only 1 in 6 make it to a year. Those odds are crazy.

Final thought, numbers might be down because hunters are down. Look at this forum as a window into hunter interest. It will never be as popular as deer hunting is, but interest seems to be waning even more lately and just isn't a big spike like we see with deer. People are busier now these days than ever. I myself am a very casual turkey hunter. I go out 4 or 5 times a spring. I don't really push too hard to "get my bird" and I'm not bothered if I don't. But turkey hunting in my opinion is hard. I did a survey a while back and most on this site agreed that it's harder to get a bird than a deer. So you have this hard to kill animal that produces little meat and it requires a 4am or earlier wakeup call... and you end up with what you have today. 

Personally there is nothing more magical in the woods than hearing a gobbler close in on you as the sun rises, so I'll continue to head out every spring, but I know for many it's just not worth the effort. 

Final, final point. I can turkey hunt hundreds of acres with permission and encounter no hunters. That same land is way off limits to me during deer and I hear guns boom all gun season long. food for thought. 

[Versatile_Hunter]

3 minutes ago, Belo said:

this is what I came here to say. You don't have to be a biologist to drive down the road and see that once fallow field is now a housing development. You don't need to be a biologist to see the old overgrown vineyard or field is now a corn field. I don't know if I believe predator increase is as substantial as some think (there is all sorts of data out there about wolves and elk that don't line up with the publics opinion on predator impact), but I do firmly believe that habitat loss is a huge factor. I listened to an actual biologist from the NWTF talk about the fact that 1 in 6 eggs actually hatch. Then 1 in 6 polts make it the first month, then from there only 1 in 6 make it to a year. Those odds are crazy.

 

Good contiguous habitat will mitigate these challenges (predators, disease). The problem arises when you have small fragmented parcels of adequate habitat and disease strikes or predators surge. You can lose the entire local population in such instances, as we’ve seen with grouse 

[G-Man]

26 minutes ago, Belo said:

this is what I came here to say. You don't have to be a biologist to drive down the road and see that once fallow field is now a housing development. You don't need to be a biologist to see the old overgrown vineyard or field is now a corn field. I don't know if I believe predator increase is as substantial as some think (there is all sorts of data out there about wolves and elk that don't line up with the publics opinion on predator impact), but I do firmly believe that habitat loss is a huge factor. I listened to an actual biologist from the NWTF talk about the fact that 1 in 6 eggs actually hatch. Then 1 in 6 polts make it the first month, then from there only 1 in 6 make it to a year. Those odds are crazy.

Final thought, numbers might be down because hunters are down. Look at this forum as a window into hunter interest. It will never be as popular as deer hunting is, but interest seems to be waning even more lately and just isn't a big spike like we see with deer. People are busier now these days than ever. I myself am a very casual turkey hunter. I go out 4 or 5 times a spring. I don't really push too hard to "get my bird" and I'm not bothered if I don't. But turkey hunting in my opinion is hard. I did a survey a while back and most on this site agreed that it's harder to get a bird than a deer. So you have this hard to kill animal that produces little meat and it requires a 4am or earlier wakeup call... and you end up with what you have today. 

Personally there is nothing more magical in the woods than hearing a gobbler close in on you as the sun rises, so I'll continue to head out every spring, but I know for many it's just not worth the effort. 

Final, final point. I can turkey hunt hundreds of acres with permission and encounter no hunters. That same land is way off limits to me during deer and I hear guns boom all gun season long. food for thought. 

I agree use to have 8 guys turkey hunt now i have 2.. guys dont like to get up.. and in fall with shorter season they dont bother.focus on deer

[Five Seasons]

On 8/24/2022 at 1:04 AM, blackbeltbill said:

  Most Spring Turkey Hunters never fill their States Bag Limit. There are hordes of Hunters Nationwide who are stuck at less then 10 Toms even after 12+ years of Hunting them.   

 

On 8/24/2022 at 7:15 AM, blackbeltbill said:

   In case hunters have not noticed- plenty of experienced Turkey Hunters are only able to take just 1 Gobbler anyway.  Plenty of them are also failing to Bag even that 1 Tom.

we get it. You post this same line of thinking constantly. Very few guys are out there claiming it's easy to get a bird or 2 every year. I don't know why you bring this up so often, it's not a point that needs to be repeated or that is misunderstood. 

[mike103]

I hunt in 4P and 4R. Turkey numbers are way down. I would vote to close the fall completely and limit the spring to one in my area. Can’t speak for the rest of the state.

Deer hunters in the fall kill turkeys with the gun and bow. 

[G-Man]

6 hours ago, mike103 said:

I hunt in 4P and 4R. Turkey numbers are way down. I would vote to close the fall completely and limit the spring to one in my area. Can’t speak for the rest of the state.

Deer hunters in the fall kill turkeys with the gun and bow. 

The fall take has a very high number of young birds in it . With the exception of those that feel they need a fall gobbler.. ypubg birds are most likely to die over winter.  

What needs to be done is control of predators and create and leave good nesting habitat. Those are biggest factors. 

[mike103]

Well I can’t argue that we have way too many varmints. 
 

I started turkey hunting in the late ‘80’s. Not many guys turkey hunting then. Covid really peaked the number of hunters. 

[mike103]

On 9/8/2022 at 5:40 AM, blackbeltbill said:

Also and in addition  to too many predators is now-" too many of us".

 Every Spring,I am seeing more and more Spring Turkey Hunters. 

  This is one piece of the puzzle that is too often overlooked.

 The Utube Spring Turkey Traveling Turkey Killing Groups who hunt only Public have given rise to ever more New Turkey Hunters who want to do the same .

 Which means ever more Aggressive  Spring Hunting. 

Sprinting towards a " Gobble" with a Gobbler Decoy stuck under 1 Arm.

 New York is in a much better spot then all the South Eastern States,Ohio, and a number of the Western States that are experiencing  Drought  and a Killing Heat Wave right now this is killing off the cattle.

 

 

I agree with your assessment of more turkey hunters and the young kids really love the public hunting guys. But I have never seen anyone using the fan to stalk a turkey. 
 

Another part of the equation is turkey guns and ammo have gotten way better since the ‘80’s. We can talk about only shooting out to 40 yards but no one is listening. Two of my crew have crossed the 60 yard mark, hevi shot and Long Beards, and there is no way to put the genie back in the bottle. 
 

I truly love spring turkey hunting. I want to see the birds rebound. I personally would be ok with no fall season and only one gobbler in the spring. But I understand others disagree.