Owning New York Property

[ItalianHunter5]

I am still young but am already looking forward to my investing future, several people I know think this is a good idea and I want to see what other peers thought. In the future when I am financially ready for my first, I would like to buy good sized lots of land all over New York. Real estate is a fantastic investment, especially land mostly because the value will most likely go up. I would really love to own property all over and be able to decide each year, ok where will we hunt this year? I think that it would be even better to scout the properties and lease off the ones I do not want to hunt to at least cover the taxes...which would be the worst and possibly destroying part of this plan. I know I still have a ways to go, but does this seem like a solid plan of some sort?

[Elmo]

Each land you own you have to pay property taxes on.  So being able to afford a bunch of different property means being able to pay a bunch of taxes which me to be financially well off.  Is being financially well off a good plan?  Sure is.  You could lease those lands to help off set the taxes, then you'll have to just deal with the hassle of people on you property.  I say so with some sarcasm.  But all kidding aside, it's some things that should be considered when buying property.  It is why so many lottery winners go bankrupt so quickly.  They come across quick money, drop it all on some multi-million dollar mansion and fancy sports cars, and totally forget that there are annual upkeep cost for these items.

[Doc]

There are ways to gather wealth through real estate. The buy and hold speculation is probably one of the least likely to succeed. Unless you have an inside track on some significant community investment change, there are a lot more lucrative places to put your money. Do not get tunnel vision, and look at the whole spectrum of investment and then evaluate. Treat it all like you would treat any business venture. Create a model with realistic and educated expectations of return over time.

[nyantler]

Doc is right about the buy and hold method... although you can make money as the property appreciates... it is better to buy property that has some kind of immediate value... such as, timber that can be sold, leasable hunting land... buying big properties for a good price and selling off lots... think outside the box... profit up front creates more money for more investment. and quicker cash flow.

[Nomad]

We own over 100 acres in Canandaigua about all crop,land. The rent the farmer pays us covers the taxes and a little left over. We own it free and clear,if we made monthly payments the leftover money would not cover one month.....

We own the land as part of our worth, glad it's there but no way would I put it all in land.

For the cost you could fly around the country and hunt the best deer land in the U.S.

I spent a week hunting Montana for around $1,500 lic. Flight included . No guide and we camped out.

[ItalianHunter5]

I see many people that succeed with real estate and as I was talking to a man that we do work for (my father is a contractor), he invests in commercial and retail buildings and he makes millions to say the least. He recommended to me that if the land is at a good price and would eventually be able to be built on, it's a good long term investment. That does make sense to me, but the way taxes are getting in New York, I don't know if owning land all over would be affordable. Hopefully something happens that gives me a notion that this is possible and I can be some sort of lease agent.

[vincy]

I work in real estate for a bank, mostly large development, retail/industrial/rental stuff etc..but the concepts apply across the board. there is definitely a lot of money that can be made in RE, however it takes knowledge of your market and is not without risk.

 

RE has a low barrier to entry, in other words anyone can speculate and buy RE and call themselves an investor. However to be really successful it takes understanding your market and indicators that can influence a return on your investment this comes from research  and knowing what your goals are. Luck also can play into this.

 

My thing is generating cash flow. for land you need to think about how you can generate income, by either leasing, annual timber sales etc...lowering your carrying costs should be your main focus.

 

If your young, take this opportunity to study your markets, cycles and know what your investment goals are.  

[ItalianHunter5]

Thanks vincy, I figured I should start while i'm younger because this is something i'm very interested in. I would lean towards leasing out the properties (if I was lucky enough to achieve what I want) because I have seen what loggers do to properties and it is really just disgusting. Thanks for the input though everyone!

[steve863]

If you want to make money on real estate, then you should buy a multi-family home, an apartment house, or similar type of property where you can make rental income.  Buying vacant land that you want to lease for hunting or farming will make you chump change.  It will be way more trouble than it's worth.  Buying property specifically for hunting is also a complete waste.  Unless you and your family intends to use it year round, it simply won't be worth it.  For the cost of the land, along with taxes, maintenance, etc., you can go on nice outfitted hunts each and every year for a LONG time.

 

 

 

[pewlodar]

As Steve said there is the huge difference between vacant land in the country and suburban lots or multi family houses as a RE investment. I would venture a bet the RE investor you know and deal with is not buying vacant hunting land as an investment.

[Uncle Nicky]

The pluses: You can buy rural land pretty cheap in NY. You can hunt your own properties. You can  lease the property & log the property to help supplement the costs. Land values rarely depreciate. Unlike guided hunts, you will have something to sell down the road. There is a good chance that eventually the natural gas business will bear fruit in NY, if you own the rights on your property(ies). You can write off the real estate taxes (and mortgage interest if you take out a loan) on your income tax return.

 

The minuses: NY real estate taxes are some of the highest, even on unimproved rural properties. Dealing with poachers, trespassers, and property-line disputes. Turning land into cash when you are in need of money usually takes months. Hunting seasons are short in NY, so you won't have a lot of time to enjoy your land, and won't get much $$ if you plan to lease the land for hunting.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Uncle Nicky

[HectorBuckBuster]

Well I own around 200 acres of land and I rent it out to a farmer.So all I have to worry about is taxes, since land is free and clear. I was going through some old paper work of my grandmothers, and she was getting $5010 for farming lease in 1985. In 2013 the farm rent was only bring in $5600.In my area there has been a huge buying spree by large farms buying land, which has pushed the land prices up some. It also has given land owners with large acreage a big bargaining chip. As I just signed a new lease for $70.00 per acre for farm leasing. If you get large parcels of land and you do not get a agricultural assessment odds are the taxes will end up crushing you. Say you buy some land for $100,000 and you pay taxes of $5000 a year, so after 10 years sure maybe the land went to $150,000 dollars, but you in reality have $150,000 in the land from the purchase price and add taxes. So if you where to sell it you would just break even. Also there are not alot of banks that give loans just for land.

[First-light]

HectorBB,

Is that the average price/acre? I lease in Steuben county and get 20/acre. Your right about the ag assessment, probably cuts my taxes in half.

[ItalianHunter5]

I honestly don't think it's going to be easy and probably have to start out small and work my way up anyway. One example that I always think about when it comes to this is my father bought 36 acres in Lewis County in 2006. Yes the drive is long, but I have to admit it is paradise up there...and good small gaming. He bought at 65,000 and now its assessed at 86,200. It jumped up in just 7 years and the taxes are under 1,000 per year, which is crazy considering most of New York is insane with taxes. What do you know or feel about starting out with residential vacant lots and building up?

[sits in trees]

Real estate has become a poor investment. Look around and see what's happening, NY real estate is bad, the rest of the country even worse . Yes you can buy cheap now but the market outlook is bleak at best. There's a very good possibility that land you buy today will even be worth less in 5 years and you might be lucky to sell it for what you paid for it in ten years. Look to the markets for investments today, if your not doubling you money in ten years your wasting your time, and you wont double your money in ten years with real estate, those days are gone. The only real estate investments you should make is the one you live in or in other countries. Remember you also have to pay taxes on real estate. The markets have been especially strong in the last 3 years with overseas investments looking better and better.

[BizCT]

I am still young but am already looking forward to my investing future, several people I know think this is a good idea and I want to see what other peers thought. In the future when I am financially ready for my first, I would like to buy good sized lots of land all over New York. Real estate is a fantastic investment, especially land mostly because the value will most likely go up. I would really love to own property all over and be able to decide each year, ok where will we hunt this year? I think that it would be even better to scout the properties and lease off the ones I do not want to hunt to at least cover the taxes...which would be the worst and possibly destroying part of this plan. I know I still have a ways to go, but does this seem like a solid plan of some sort?

 

Doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.  Buying property and then leasing it to others to hunt? whats the point? Why buy multiple hunting properties in a state that gives you at most 2 buck tags and no other big game opportunities (except rare chance at a Bear)? 

 

Unless you are obsessed with NY Whitetails only, I say you take that same $ and explore hunting opportunities in other states while hunting a variety of game.  Even just $10K could be 3 nice hunting trips out of state.

[ItalianHunter5]

Out of state currently does not interest me. Right now we are in a troubled situation trying to find hunting land, if I could help someone in the future by giving them a place to hunt, I'd love to.

[BizCT]

Out of state currently does not interest me. Right now we are in a troubled situation trying to find hunting land, if I could help someone in the future by giving them a place to hunt, I'd love to.

 

You are better off leasing land for yourself, then buying land that you only want to lease out and not hunt on anyway. You said your young, how young? You're worried about buying land before buying a place to live?  Just noticed your from Putnam County. What town? I graduated from Mahopac in 2002.

[ItalianHunter5]

We are currently trying to find a lease in Columbia County which is extremely hard, and what you're saying is making sense. Before anything I would need a roof over my head lol, that's a definite before most other things and no kidding. I'm a senior at Mahopac High right now.

[HectorBuckBuster]

 First-Light that $70 is per acre for just the agricultural rights. I was getting $35 but was approached by 3 different farmers with in a couple of weeks wanting to rent my property, and one made be a written offer of $70. So, I contacted the farmer that was currently farming it and talked with him and gave him the opportunity  to make a offer. I have 167 acres of tillable land on connecting parcels so that helps me out in negotiating over someone with say  20 acres. I do know in Cayuga county they are paying $65 per acre just for pasture land. NY land produces the same amount of crops per acre as land in the mid west. I do understand farming is tough, but not as tough as it was 30-40 years ago. These tractors on combines are Air conditioned, controlled by GPS and have  10-12 bottom plows, and combines with 20-30 foot heads, and 20 row planters, it does not long at all to plow,plant and harvest a 50 acre field, verse's 30 years ago.The NY farmers are getting farming land at bargian basement prices, in the mid west the pay between $300-500 per acre.Here is a article of farm rental land auction prices, and these are only for 2 year leases.

 

http://www.agriculture.com/news/business/l-rent-auctions-stunning_5-ar22091

 

 

http://www.agriculture.com/uploads/assets/promo/external/siteimages/Lakin%20Sale%20Bill%20with%20prices.pdf

 

Edited October 14, 2013 by HectorBuckBuster

[BizCT]

We are currently trying to find a lease in Columbia County which is extremely hard, and what you're saying is making sense. Before anything I would need a roof over my head lol, that's a definite before most other things and no kidding. I'm a senior at Mahopac High right now.

 

Knock on doors, offer $ (if necessary), etc. I hunt private 8 acres of land in Carmel behind some 90 year old lady's house. In CT, I got access to 12 acres (7 huntable acres) for $500 for the entire year, July - December, hunting season in 9/16-12/31.

 

There are opportunities out there, just have to try. I probably sent hundreds of emails before I got a few maybe's and then 1 yes.

[ItalianHunter5]

Man I gotta tell you, it's a little easier upstate in Columbia because it's a lot of farmers but around here in Putnam I came up with a list and got 1 maybe and now i'm trying to hold the guy to it. Very difficult because most people look at us hunters as criminals, especially when they hear gun considering I don't bow hunt...

[BizCT]

I hear ya. I don't have 1 friend who hunts. I barely even know anyone around here who hunts. Everyone around here thinks its a "hick" thing.

[ItalianHunter5]

It's a rare thing around here, it's a shame. Surprisingly off the top of my head I have at least 8 friends that hunt but everyone else, just like you said, call us hicks and get disgusted by our conversations. I'll just never understand these people.

[First-light]

 First-Light that $70 is per acre for just the agricultural rights. I was getting $35 but was approached by 3 different farmers with in a couple of weeks wanting to rent my property, and one made be a written offer of $70. So, I contacted the farmer that was currently farming it and talked with him and gave him the opportunity  to make a offer. I have 167 acres of tillable land on connecting parcels so that helps me out in negotiating over someone with say  20 acres. I do know in Cayuga county they are paying $65 per acre just for pasture land. NY land produces the same amount of crops per acre as land in the mid west. I do understand farming is tough, but not as tough as it was 30-40 years ago. These tractors on combines are Air conditioned, controlled by GPS and have  10-12 bottom plows, and combines with 20-30 foot heads, and 20 row planters, it does not long at all to plow,plant and harvest a 50 acre field, verse's 30 years ago.The NY farmers are getting farming land at bargian basement prices, in the mid west the pay between $300-500 per acre.Here is a article of farm rental land auction prices, and these are only for 2 year leases.

 

http://www.agriculture.com/news/business/l-rent-auctions-stunning_5-ar22091

 

 

http://www.agriculture.com/uploads/assets/promo/external/siteimages/Lakin%20Sale%20Bill%20with%20prices.pdf

Thanks-a few of us who rent to the same farmer have been talking about kicking up the price. Between my parcel and my Neighbors he farms about 150 acres.