Here's a fight starter

[Doc]

Well, I guess the issue is not dead as far as the DEC is concerned. There is another survey being conducted by Cornell University's Human Dimension Research Unit on behalf of the DEC to once and for all get at the true attitudes of hunters toward ARs. 7000 randomly selected big game license holders will be surveyed to kind of take the temperature of big game hunters on this issue. It sounds like this survey may actually impact some regulations changes for 2015. It will be interesting  to see how it all comes out.

 

By the way, I have to ask why Cornell keeps getting all this survey money when it would be real simple to include a survey question at the time of license purchase that would reach ALL license purchasers. It seems to me that in this age of electronic license purchases and databases, the damned computers could wack this thing out without any mailings or postage or fees going off to Cornell. Simple question at time of license purchase ..... "you for it or against it". Town clerk or whoever checks the appropriate box and there you are. Push the button at the DEC headquarter's computers and out pops the answer. Why isn't it that simple and that cheap?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

It is Govt, DOC. Don't drive yourself nuts attempting to apply common sense...lol

[bluecoupe]

So you're telling me that you can tell the difference between a 1.5 year old deer and 2.5 year old deer by taste?

Talk about "non-breathing tones"...

 

I don't believe that I ever specified any ages. I used terms such as older and younger which most individuals would be able to recognize, are not literal but rather subjective.   Judging from your replies, it seems that your prime goal is being argumentative vs attempting to have a grown up reasonable discussion.  Fool me once...

Edited October 29, 2013 by SteveC

[Woodsman20]

I would rather see AR's rather than a 1 buck rule which has more to do with population issues versus trying to establish larger population of mature bucks. NY has great genetics and great habitat to support great hunting. Meat hunter or not, everyone gets excited when they see big mature whitetails. If you are truly after meat our doe population is a viable source to support this. NY is way behind other states - PA, OH and our mid-western states in trying to move in this direction.

With this said, over the last few years many hunters are making a conscious decision to move in this direction and the results are evident. I think there are more big bucks out there today than in the past. At some point it will happen but many hunters are helping to drive this direction.

If we could just avoid the opening weekend of gun’s slaughter of 1.5 year olds the results would be phenomenal.

[bluecoupe]

It is Govt, DOC. Don't drive yourself nuts attempting to apply common sense...lol

 

I got that notice as well. Should be interesting if they publish the results. I'd think they would.   I may not of read right, but I don't recall seeing that stated in the note.

[Doewhacker]

Well, I guess the issue is not dead as far as the DEC is concerned. There is another survey being conducted by Cornell University's Human Dimension Research Unit on behalf of the DEC to once and for all get at the true attitudes of hunters toward ARs. 7000 randomly selected big game license holders will be surveyed to kind of take the temperature of big game hunters on this issue. It sounds like this survey may actually impact some regulations changes for 2015. It will be interesting  to see how it all comes out.

 

By the way, I have to ask why Cornell keeps getting all this survey money when it would be real simple to include a survey question at the time of license purchase that would reach ALL license purchasers. It seems to me that in this age of electronic license purchases and databases, the damned computers could wack this thing out without any mailings or postage or fees going off to Cornell. Simple question at time of license purchase ..... "you for it or against it". Town clerk or whoever checks the appropriate box and there you are. Push the button at the DEC headquarter's computers and out pops the answer. Why isn't it that simple and that cheap?

 

 

Just remember, the public majority wanted Obamacare, what a majority wants is NOT always the best answer. I don't want my fellow hunters deciding reg's based on opinion's one way or the other. I would rather the state manage things like they are paid to do. I do agree a simple one question deal would make sense though.

[bluecoupe]

If we could just avoid the opening weekend of gun’s slaughter of 1.5 year olds the results would be phenomenal.

 

Phenomenal for what/who though?  The deer population has survived for a LOT of years with no ARs.  ARs serve two purposes as far as I can tell.  

 

1) Making it easier for the average person to get a wallhanger.  Result: More license sales = more $ for the state

2) More big bucks = more/better chance to attract out of state wallhanger hunters = more out of state sales = more $ for the state.

 

hmmm, I think there may be a pattern developing. ;-)  They don't care about us.  Take ANY politician and what they are interested in is how to further line their pockets while making the people *think* they are about us. lol

<spoken somewhat tongue in cheek, but semi-serious>

 

[Csk21]

I don't believe that I ever specified any ages. I used terms such as older and younger which most individuals would be able to recognize, are not literal but rather subjective. Judging from your replies, it seems that your prime goal is being argumentative vs attempting to have a grown up reasonable discussion. Fool me once...

No, I am not trying to be argumentative.The main purpose of antler restrictions is to reduce the number of yearling and1.5 year old bucks taken. So you let that crotch go and next year he's a 2.5 year old 8 that would be legal under the AR's. Would you classify that 2.5 year old buck as older or younger? In my opinion its a win win. You get your younger deer and the "he-men" get a decent rack.

[bluecoupe]

No, I am not trying to be argumentative.The main purpose of antler restrictions is to reduce the number of yearling and1.5 year old bucks taken. So you let that crotch go and next year he's a 2.5 year old 8 that would be legal under the AR's. Would you classify that 2.5 year old buck as older or younger? In my opinion its a win win. You get your younger deer and the "he-men" get a decent rack.

 

Fair enough. I'll respect your opinion even though I don't think the state should have a right to regulate that kind of thing. If someone owns x number of acres and wants to say "on my land... yada yada yada" then I've no issue with that.

As my other post said, they aren't interested in us, they're interested in revenue generation.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

 If you are truly after meat our doe population is a viable source to support this. .

Really? Why don't you and I go up in the NZ and fill our doe permits?

 

These freaking blanket statewide comments make me sick

[bluecoupe]

Yep. NY is not NY everywhere.    I had 30 acres in Stratford, NY for some years and live in Dutchess County.  Wanna talk about night and day differences!

[burmjohn]

Phenomenal for what/who though?  The deer population has survived for a LOT of years with no ARs.  ARs serve two purposes as far as I can tell.  

 

1) Making it easier for the average person to get a wallhanger.  Result: More license sales = more $ for the state

2) More big bucks = more/better chance to attract out of state wallhanger hunters = more out of state sales = more $ for the state.

 

hmmm, I think there may be a pattern developing. ;-)  They don't care about us.  Take ANY politician and what they are interested in is how to further line their pockets while making the people *think* they are about us. lol

<spoken somewhat tongue in cheek, but semi-serious>

 

 

I think the wallhanger / trophy argument is a common misconception of AR's.  AR's move most of the pressure to 2.5 year and older bucks.  If that was the purpose of AR's then they would have made it 4 points on each side. Then again, I guess it depends on your definition of a wallhanger...

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Yep. NY is not NY everywhere.    I had 30 acres in Stratford, NY for some years and live in Dutchess County.  Wanna talk about night and day differences!

 

 

I hunted Stratford a lot growing up. Shot many snowshoes up there.

[bluecoupe]

I think the wallhanger / trophy argument is a common misconception of AR's.  AR's move most of the pressure to 2.5 year and older bucks.  If that was the purpose of AR's then they would have made it 4 points on each side. Then again, I guess it depends on your definition of a wallhanger...

 

Probably accurate but I still believe they are simply interested in revenue generation. Weather a 1.5 yo or a 2.5+ yo is breeding the does, there's still going to be a healthy deer herd next year, and for generations to come.

[burmjohn]

Probably accurate but I still believe they are simply interested in revenue generation. Weather a 1.5 yo or a 2.5+ yo is breeding the does, there's still going to be a healthy deer herd next year, and for generations to come.

 

I guess that depends on what you consider a healthy deer herd  Age structure of a deer herd is part of a healthy herd.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I would rather see AR's rather than a 1 buck rule which has more to do with population issues versus trying to establish larger population of mature bucks. NY has great genetics and great habitat to support great hunting. Meat hunter or not, everyone gets excited when they see big mature whitetails. If you are truly after meat our doe population is a viable source to support this. NY is way behind other states - PA, OH and our mid-western states in trying to move in this direction.

With this said, over the last few years many hunters are making a conscious decision to move in this direction and the results are evident. I think there are more big bucks out there today than in the past. At some point it will happen but many hunters are helping to drive this direction.

If we could just avoid the opening weekend of gun’s slaughter of 1.5 year olds the results would be phenomenal.

 

Ohio and PA have completely different approaches, so dont group them together. Also, there is not a single state in the mid west with statewide ARs. The only ones in the Midwest with any points based restrictions are Missouri, Minnesota, Michigan and Illinois. Kentucky has a spread restriction.

 

Heres a list of AR states

 

[BUCKANDAQUARTER]

Phenomenal for what/who though?  The deer population has survived for a LOT of years with no ARs.  ARs serve two purposes as far as I can tell.  

 

1) Making it easier for the average person to get a wallhanger.  Result: More license sales = more $ for the state

2) More big bucks = more/better chance to attract out of state wallhanger hunters = more out of state sales = more $ for the state.

 

hmmm, I think there may be a pattern developing. ;-)  They don't care about us.  Take ANY politician and what they are interested in is how to further line their pockets while making the people *think* they are about us. lol

<spoken somewhat tongue in cheek, but semi-serious>

 

 

I can understand you here. But I feel ARs serve more than the political end of things. The politicians aren't going to make anymore if I kill a big deer or not. The guys that are going to hunt now are the same guys that would hunt with ARs. The out of state license fee is pretty high already. I don't think people are going to flock to your or my WMU by the masses if we have AR's. The state will probably make some more $ but I don't see that as argument to oppose them. And the state is actually doing a survey to see what we want. The government is greedy and sickening 99.9999999999999999% of the time, but at least they are listening to people and want their input. Goal of ARs = more older deer. Not lining politicians pockets. I am more of a prochoice guy anyway. I practice AR's and think it makes sense to harvest bigger deer. I am not trying to cram them down anyones throat but they do work. It won't protect all 1.5's. Hell I shot a 1.5 8pt myself. Most squeak through but there is the wildcard option as well.

Edited October 29, 2013 by BUCKANDAQUARTER

[WNYBuckHunter]

I think the wallhanger / trophy argument is a common misconception of AR's.  AR's move most of the pressure to 2.5 year and older bucks.  If that was the purpose of AR's then they would have made it 4 points on each side. Then again, I guess it depends on your definition of a wallhanger...

 

It also depends on where you are. Come on out my way John, Ill show you what I mean. Open ended invite!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

We curren'ty have statewide AR's. why aren't we listed?

[bluecoupe]

I guess that depends on what you consider a healthy deer herd  Age structure of a deer herd is part of a healthy herd.

 

That's true, but even left as is, there will ALWAYS be healthy, older, larger and dominant bucks.  They have always been there, they will always be there. The way it is now though they actually do have to be somewhat superior and smart enough to survive to get that big. With ARs the genetically inferior deer will actually be able to get bigger.

 

[Doc]

Just remember, the public majority wanted Obamacare, what a majority wants is NOT always the best answer. I don't want my fellow hunters deciding reg's based on opinion's one way or the other. I would rather the state manage things like they are paid to do. I do agree a simple one question deal would make sense though.

I think I have finally realized just how political our game management really is. I think that from a biological standpoint, the DEC has concluded that there is no significant need for AR. And I believe I have seen DEC quotes to that effect. I also believe that they are viewing AR as a "social" issue and not something of biological significance. And that probably explains the "social" approach to the problem. I don't know. That is simply what I am surmising from some of the quotes that I have seen.

 

And it is true, the majority opinion is not always the correct one (Obamacare is a good example). But perhaps establishing which opinion really is in the majority might stop some of this eye poking that seems to go on with this issue. Everyone thinks their opinion represents the majority opinion. Maybe this will clarify that and calm some of these people down a bit.

[WNYBuckHunter]

We curren'ty have statewide AR's. why aren't we listed?

 

No we dont

[TeeBugg]

We arent statewide for ar's....hence why we arent listed

[WNYBuckHunter]

I know where hes going, just waiting for the reply lol

[TeeBugg]

Oooohhhh i seee