Taking the plunge

[thphm]

There is no written rule as to where your anchor point should be, as your nose ,lips or cheek. I am sure mine has changed as from my lip to my cheek , when I added the loops to all of my bows,if it changed to that spot and I keep anchoring at that spot, it does not change how I shoot. When you start out ( as **** is )  the anchor point is Not known.

[SteveB]

You mean I won't be able to take a deer with a bow at 160 yds?

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1st year better limit to a 100 yds or so.

[Hardcore]

Lurking....last thing I wanna do is get in a heated debate or continue to steer the thread away from the OP's intent....good shooting should be built around consistent form....keeping the same anchor point is very important for consistency ....same grip of bow, slight bend of non draw arm....you should essentially be exactly the same every time you shoot...any variation will cause inconsistencies ....

[Doc]

NO bow shop starts with determining the length of the d-loop and then measuring draw length.  WNY is right.  d-loop does not determine DL.  It can be tweaked to fit your favored anchor point and allow for better stablity or settling of the pin.  I undertsand your point, but to tell a new archer that d-loop is part of the equation for measuring DL is simply wrong Doc.  I have a 28 1/8" DL.  If I decided to use a 3" long d-loop (no one would), I would not become a 25 1/8" DL.

 

 

Let's use your 3" long "D"-loop example. exaggeration does make the point easier to visualize. If your set up does not accommodate that 3" distance into your bow's draw length measurement, when you do eventually put it on, you will find that at full draw, you are 3" short of the bow's valley. At that point, if you have bought a bow of a given draw length and didn't accommodate that 3", there is nothing to "tweak". It simply will be the wrong draw length for the archer. Everything you add between the string and the anchor effects the bow's draw length requirement. It makes no sense to buy a bow with a draw length that does not accommodate that. It will wind up anchored at the wrong point in the force-draw curve.

 

You can demonstrate how it all works. Take your current bow set-up and add a 3" extension between your d-loop and your release. Now pull back your bow. It will be immediately obvious that you have just changed your draw length when you realize that you're no where near the valley of your cams.

 

Nothing is more critical than a bow's draw length. When you are at full draw, using an established repetitive, consistent anchor that satisfies your form, the last thing you want is to find that you are not holding in the valley of the force curve. There is no tweaking. It's either right, or it's wrong.

[Doewhacker]

WOW you are over thinking it Doc. The string will still be the same length no matter how long the D loop is. You don't hold your bow with out pulling it all the way back all of a sudden. The string should be at the tip of your nose, a d loop will only affect where the release touches your cheek. Want it closer, use a shorter release and a shorter d loop.

 

 

[Doc]

WOW you are over thinking it Doc. The string will still be the same length no matter how long the D loop is. You don't hold your bow with out pulling it all the way back all of a sudden. The string should be at the tip of your nose, a d loop will only affect where the release touches your cheek. Want it closer, use a shorter release and a shorter d loop.

Look, I made it as clear as I know how. I can't add anymore. You have to take the time to read and understand what I have already explained. I've given examples and even described an experiment that illustrates all this. Those that do not understand the nature of the force-draw curve on compound bows, and the importance of drawing to a specific location within the valley of that curve will likely never understand my point. Suffice it to say that there is no substitute for measuring the draw length requirements of a bow using exactly the equipment you intend to use. d-loops if you intend to use one, along with the specific release you intend to use. You don't leave out a 1/2" here and 1/2" there and expect the bow to fit you when you get all done. There's no "over-thinking" to it. There simply is a right way and a wrong way to spec out the requirements of a bow.

[Doewhacker]

Nah you ain't too stubborn

 

 

http://tboneoutdoors.com/video/tech_tips/draw_length_myths

[Doc]

Nah you ain't too stubborn

 

 

http://tboneoutdoors.com/video/tech_tips/draw_length_myths

That would all be great if everyone used the same anchor. In my case, I use the release as the touch-point at the corner of my mouth. And if there is 1/2" or 3" or whatever of d-loop in front of the calipers, that all shortens the distance of draw accordingly. If I measured up the bow draw length without the d-loop, I would be under-drawing the bow by 1/2 inch when I put one on.

[Doewhacker]

Ok Doc, every one else is wrong and you are right. I'll let T-Bone know too.

[Doc]

Ok Doc, every one else is wrong and you are right. I'll let T-Bone know too.

I'm not saying whose right or wrong. I'm just saying how it is. If I had an anchor like T-bone (and of course not everyone does), I would probably agree that the string sets the draw length. On the other hand he would probably agree with me that it is foolish to spec out a bow without having all the drawing accessories in place.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Ok Doc, every one else is wrong and you are right. I'll let T-Bone know too.

Let me try this.... My Hoyt has a small valley and a very hard backwall. I have a 1/2" loop and at full draw the anchor point is in the corner of my mouth. If I put that 3" loop on and draw to my backwall the release is going to be 2-1/2" farther back that before. If you anchor off your release it will make a difference. If you use a kisser button or use a fletching or some other string point for you anchor reference it will not make a difference in the anchor point BUT your drawing hand will be back farther. It depends on your reference point.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Good luck on the purchase. shoot many and really take a look at the used market on a forum like Archerytalk. Good time of year to buy right now.

[Doewhacker]

First of all, no one uses a 3 inch D loop so just remove that silly idea. The video explains it all very well. String to the tip of your nose, corner of the mouth, adjust the length ot the D loop or release to compensate where it touches your cheek.

 

And no Doc I don't think T-bone would agree with you.

[moog5050]

When drawn, the nock of the arrow should be in a vertical line below the eye.  The loop only dictates how far behind that you anchor.  If the nock is 3" in front of your eye, any archery coach will tell you that your bow's DL is too short - no matter how long the loop is.  Loop does not change DL period. 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2014 by moog5050

[Doc]

Why do I bother ..... lol. You don't even read my replies. A d-loop is not all about rearranging your anchor point to suit the d-loop.

 

And what is with all this adjusting of d-loops and releases about. If you put the damn d-loop on there to start with and measure using it and your release, you can simply have the bow set up with the correct draw length without all that nonsense of adjusting this and adjusting that and rearranging your whole anchoring system. Makes sense to me.

[phade]

LOL, Doc.

 

So many people have explained it. So many.

[phade]

Why do I bother ..... lol. You don't even read my replies. A d-loop is not all about rearranging your anchor point to suit the d-loop.

 

And what is with all this adjusting of d-loops and releases about. If you put the damn d-loop on there to start with and measure using it and your release, you can simply have the bow set up with the correct draw length without all that nonsense of adjusting this and adjusting that and rearranging your whole anchoring system. Makes sense to me.

 

Now, let's really throw a curve ball in there, what about a release with a shorter post than the one you were measured with?

[thphm]

When I bought my first Compound bow from a Archery shop with a fellow with many years of shooting,setting up and selling all types of bows.Even though I have been shooting Long and Recurve bows for years Did This.He did ask what poundage bow I shot. Then got out a 40, a 50 and a 60 pound Long bow with a 36" long arrow which had the last 10" marked off in inches and half inches.He had me hold each one at full draw for around 1 minute.The 40 pound I held the longest and the 60 the shortest amount of time, the 50 pound I held at that time with out any shaking or other movement.And the arrow was marked at the front of the arrow rest.It wound up being 28". Then we tried another this time a Recurve which was 50 pounds at 28" took a few shots with that.Ok now I needed a Compound that was set a 50 pounds for a 28" Draw Length.He took a few different Brands and Models of Compounds with that setting,Watching me with each. I shot each and found the one I was most comfortable with.Got a new one out of stock and made all of the adjustments needed. Had me shoot it and tweeked it a little more.That bow has served me well for the last 20 years.

Later on I decided it was time for a newer and shorter in length Compound. I found one at another good Archery shop, This One I had a loop Installed on And they made the adjustments to compensate for the loop and Found a comfortable short Release to use.Still shooting 50 pounds at 28". The actual arrow length is 29 - 1/2 " .

My recurve and long bows that I added the loops to Still anchor in the same place,Just that my hand is now a 1/2" further back and has not effected my shooting at all.           

[moog5050]

Why do I bother ..... lol. You don't even read my replies. A d-loop is not all about rearranging your anchor point to suit the d-loop.

 

And what is with all this adjusting of d-loops and releases about. If you put the damn d-loop on there to start with and measure using it and your release, you can simply have the bow set up with the correct draw length without all that nonsense of adjusting this and adjusting that and rearranging your whole anchoring system. Makes sense to me.

 

 

When I went to law school, the saying was:  If you have the law on your side, argue the law.  If you have the facts on your side, argue the facts.  If you have neither, pound the table.  Not saying you are pounding the table Doc, BUT .... LOL

 

Again, DL is measured with reference to where the nock sits when at full draw, NOT the D LOOP.  If you want a d loop that you hold a foot behind your head, its doesn't change the distance between the grip with your arm extended and where the nock sits.  

 

Could you explain why no shop asks how long your d loop is when measuring for DL?  The answer is, because it doesn't matter for that measurement. 

 

I give you credit for not giving up on a lost cause.  You sure you weren't a lawyer at some point?

 

 

[moog5050]

BTW - sorry for the detour.  OP good luck with the bow search.  It can be addicting.

[cdmckane]

1st year better limit to a 100 yds or so.

I guess if I'm going to get that close, I should just go ahead and take me some head shots?

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[SteveB]

Confused yet Chris

 

 

[cdmckane]

I can see both sides. That's exactly why I'm going to Kleins and Greg's to learn more

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[shawnhu]

Correct, it changes the anchor point.

In his example, his anchor point never moved. Hence, what changed was the DL.

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[shawnhu]

It would seem that some like to use the arrow and string to anchor, and others use their hands. One wouldn't change the DL while it would change the location of the draw hand/arm when anchored, and the other would change the DL while never affecting the draw arm's position because that's the basis of that shooter's anchor point.

What I am seeing is two sides that can't seem to understand one another, and sadly, it's no surprise.

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